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Thread: 13 Myth Busting Facts About American History

  1. #46
    Hit By Ban Bus! AliceInWonderland's Avatar
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    Default i know im late to this thread...

    be careful, some of you might actually LEARN something here. (more likely from each other rather than this article)

    i thought it was common knowledge that Russia took care of those Nazi's not used to their winter in that forest etc.

    and wasn't Lincoln planning on helping freed-slaves go back to where their ancestors came from if they chose (or stay in the US).

    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    that still doesn't change the fact that it was not the US who single-handedly defeated the nazis and liberated europe, as they would have you believe and as they've been teaching children for years.
    who is "they"?!
    Last edited by AliceInWonderland; October 6th, 2010 at 12:25 PM.

  2. #47
    Elite Member Novice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BITTER View Post
    Thank you, Sir. *BITTER gets into his Lulu drag and starts singing the theme "To Sir, With Love".
    You know I'm female, right?
    Quote Originally Posted by sluce View Post
    Damn! We need another war!!

    Oh wait - that didn't work this time...
    Or last time, or the time before that.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Sojiita View Post
    Yeah just look at Poland and how Hitler and Stalin initially carved it all up. And yes, he basically cut the head off of the Soviet military.

    I think most Americans have no idea of what happened on the Eastern Front, and how the Russians really did defeat the Germans. D-Day and the Battle of the Bulge are nothing compared to what happened on the Eastern Front.

    More civilians died from a single city(Warsaw, 650,000 people (about half of it's prewar population) than the US lost of all people (military and civilian) in the whole war.

    I doubt very many Americans currently would know this.
    Poland - 5.7m civilians quoted here:- World War II death toll of all nations 5.6m-5.8m here:- World War II casualties - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    I can't even imagine that many people dying... And some of them were my relatives.

    Also the war on the Russian front went from 1941 to 1945. The way it was described one would think that it was won quickly etc. Hitler spread his forces to thinly, thinking that he could take on all comers. He was wrong. However, Europe was bloodied & battered & has taken years for all of it to recover. No-one "won", everyone lost.

    You make some great points. When I lived in the US, my friends in the military were fascinated that for me & my family WWII was something that my father lived through - he was one of the first people in the UK to have pennicilin & he remembers learning to eat oranges & bananas....
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  3. #48
    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
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    ^^ the death toll in Eastern Europe is unfathomable. Poland losing about 20 percent of it's population, The Soviet Union losing up to ten million civilians, if not more. If Belarus had been an independent nation at the time, I think it would have had the highest death rate- it is estimated that up to a third of all the population died there.

    And the Soviet Union, dozens of major cities, hundreds of towns, and tens of thousands of villages razed is just something that needs to be understood to understand at all the Russian psyche, especially in the immediate post war years-and even now to an extent.

    No wonder the Russians are a bit paranoid. Look what happened to them in the last century. Shit!

    I also think that almost anything that happens in Europe still has to be viewed taking into account and keeping in mind the trauma of the war, especially in Central and Eastern Europe.

    The closest thing the US has had to this was our Civil war, and it was not nearly as bad-even in the ravaged parts of the South, civilians were still pretty much off limits-instead of being actual targets for destruction as in WW2.

    * of Warsaw's nearly 400,000 Jews(about a third of the population), less than ten percent survived the war. The civilian death tolls in Warsaw and Leningrad were not only higher in actual numbers than in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but were about equal in terms of percentage of the population killed. with a third to half of the population dying-about the same as with the atomic bombed cities.

  4. #49
    Elite Member Novice's Avatar
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    Did you see that Russian & china topped those death lists? One of them quoted the Ukraine as having the most deaths.

    and
    The number of people killed at the major extermination camps is estimated as: Auschwitz-Birkenau: 1.4 million;[111] Treblinka: 870,000;[126] Belzec: 600,000;[114] Majdanek: 79,000 - 235,000;[120][218] Chełmno: 320,000;[116] Sobibór: 250,000.[124] This gives a total of over 3.8 million; of these, 80–90% were estimated to be Jews. These seven camps thus accounted for half the total number of Jews killed in the entire Nazi Holocaust. Virtually the entire Jewish population of Poland died in these camps.[195]
    Not only did Hitler want to exterminate the Jews, but also the Slavs.
    Most of the Slavic countries were behind the Iron Curtain... (see picture).

    Soj - to give you some (more) perspective on what this did to families, my Opa was in Prague in '38/'39 before the tanks rolled in, ditto my Aunt in the 60s (I think it was '68) before the Russian tanks went in. Prague was my Opa's favourite city, I on;y recently visited and it was impossible for me to do so for many years due to it being behind the Iron curtain. We've still to find his families graves... if there are any... Most of his family were in Krakov, & we all know how that ended.

    I never realised (my Opa died when I was less than 5), that until the late 60s he considered the continent "home" and planned to go back"home" shortly after he realises that it would never happen, he died of multiple heart attacks, coincidence? maybe. I just wished that I had known him better, I would have liked to have visited Prague with his tales ringing in my ears.




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  5. #50
    Hit By Ban Bus! AliceInWonderland's Avatar
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    there's only 4 WWI vets alive last time I checked

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sojiita View Post
    The closest thing the US has had to this was our Civil war, and it was not nearly as bad-even in the ravaged parts of the South, civilians were still pretty much off limits-instead of being actual targets for destruction as in WW2.
    WW2 was very different in it's civilian casaulties than any war that had come before. War had been made on civilians in earlier history, but the weapons and machines of war used in WW2 ensured wholesale destruction of the civilian populations.

    (WW1 was the deadliest for soldiers though. The ratio of soldiers killed in relation to the size of the armies dwarfs WW2.)

    The US and our Canadian allies were lucky as the battlegrounds were not here in WW2, so our civilians were safe. Not so for continental Europe, or the Brits who were within plane range.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Novice View Post
    You know I'm female, right?
    Of course....aren't we all
    ((((((((((((((Novice))))))))))))) just kidding dear...
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    In regards to Novice's reference, a big irony today is that one of the biggest neo nazi movements is in of all places Russia and parts of Eastern Europe. Those videos of skinhead beatings and killings in places like St. Petersburg.

    The slavic people may have been 'targeted' during WW2, but today they seem like a huge part of the far right resurgence.

  10. #55
    Elite Member Novice's Avatar
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    Are you surprised? Really? I'm not, it's a backlash against repression & fear. They've been going strong in the UK, Holland, etc for years, they just have a new market now. I'm totally insurprised by it.
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  11. #56
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    Quote Originally Posted by celeb_2006 View Post
    In regards to Novice's reference, a big irony today is that one of the biggest neo nazi movements is in of all places Russia and parts of Eastern Europe. Those videos of skinhead beatings and killings in places like St. Petersburg.

    The slavic people may have been 'targeted' during WW2, but today they seem like a huge part of the far right resurgence.
    Quote Originally Posted by Novice View Post
    Are you surprised? Really? I'm not, it's a backlash against repression & fear. They've been going strong in the UK, Holland, etc for years, they just have a new market now. I'm totally insurprised by it.
    Me either. Eastern Europe has a deep history of anti-Semitism...
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  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    what the hell is heinsight
    hindsight?

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