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Thread: Without huge salaries, financial leaders won't try hard?

  1. #31
    Elite Member nana55's Avatar
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    I was going to write a great post to Southern Belle, but everyone else has done it.

    I came from a family with money. My father owned a construction company in Winnipeg where it is too cold in the winter to build. He made sure his men had some work through the winter if was just doing stuff to our home. He got paid last. If there was a good year his employees got a bonus, bad year, no bonus. Not because it was their fault it is just the way it is. Wake up and look around for God's sake, get a fucking clue.
    If I can't be a good example, then let me be a horrible warning.

  2. #32
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    1. Banks, investment companies, and mortgage lenders made money up the ass by dealing with high risk loans and other transactions. Another reason they made money is because their bonuses were based on short-term gains, not long-term stability or value.

    The reason that high risk investments pay well is because there is substantial risk involved. They were the ones who made money by making high risk investments, so why shouldn't they suffer in some way? That is what risk is all about.

    2. CEOs whose corporations are being bailed out can take a capped salary or get the fuck outta there. If they are so competent and skilled, they should be able to find something else if they don't like it.

    3. We're talking about capping salaries at the companies accepting bail out money. This does not affect CEOs at companies that are not being bailed out, except perhaps indirectly. It is up to the owners or shareholders of these companies how their CEOs are compensated, but it should be based on the value they bring to the company.

    4. What is with all the whining? No one says these people have to stay making $500K forever. The economy will, I hope, improve--and then things will get better for everyone.

  3. #33
    Elite Member suede's Avatar
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    Assuming they tried at all in the first place.
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  4. #34
    Elite Member southernbelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nana55 View Post
    I was going to write a great post to Southern Belle, but everyone else has done it.

    I came from a family with money. My father owned a construction company in Winnipeg where it is too cold in the winter to build. He made sure his men had some work through the winter if was just doing stuff to our home. He got paid last. If there was a good year his employees got a bonus, bad year, no bonus. Not because it was their fault it is just the way it is. Wake up and look around for God's sake, get a fucking clue.
    My dad is great to his employees, too. That's my point. All CEOs are not assholes and crooks. I feel like Obama encourages people to think that they are. I think capping salaries, no matter who they are capping or why they are doing it, is a step in the wrong direction.

    As for the comments someone made about my job, I do have student loans that I'm repaying. I don't work for my dad's company in any capacity. I work at a totally unrelated job that I applied, interviewed, and was hired for. I support myself on my own income from my job. So, enough with the "daddy" comments and insinuations that I don't know anything about the "real world" or that I'm not supporting myself. I am.

  5. #35
    Friend of Gossip Rocks! buttmunch's Avatar
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    Obama is not the first president to suggest CEO's are making far too much money, particularly in comparison to the people who do the actual work. Bill Clinton, if you recall, called a meeting of top CEO's to discuss the ever-widening salary gap between top management and those on the front lines, so to speak.

    And I don't think Obama is trying to stoke some sort of class war. He has every right to stop CEO's from taking big bucks from the taxpayer. Do their job well and within a year or two they'll be back rolling in the big bucks.
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  6. #36
    Elite Member lurkur's Avatar
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    Running a company into the ground while paying yourself an exorbitant salary is not what I would call being successful.

    Sounds like a modified pyramid scheme to me. And now that the scams are collapsing, they expect tax dollars to uphold those ridiculous salaries because they shouldn't be "punished" for being motivated by money rather than a good work ethic.

  7. #37
    Elite Member Penny Lane's Avatar
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    Obama is single-handedly responsible for the propagation of the CEO stereotype? No, I think the CEOs are responsible for that.. yes, I'm sure there are some bleeding heart CEOs out there, but when the rest of the CEOs can collectively agree that scrambling for a handout from the taxpayers and then immediately grumbling about a decrease in their already exhorbitant salaries is the epitome of the greed that got them into the mess in the first place.. THEN I'll cut them some slack. Until then... it's doubtful they'll implement fiduciary cuts that might hurt their precious bank accounts... if Obama can do that, then by all means...

  8. #38
    Silver Member albatross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by southernbelle View Post
    My dad is great to his employees, too. That's my point. All CEOs are not assholes and crooks. I feel like Obama encourages people to think that they are. I think capping salaries, no matter who they are capping or why they are doing it, is a step in the wrong direction.
    CEOs are responsible for their own bad reputations.

    For example, in 2007, GM posted a $39B loss...the effect on the CEO compensation was a 64% increase. For the additional money, GM ended 2008 begging for taxpayers to bail them out. I guess he's still not motivated enough, maybe he needs more. Exactly how bad does the CEO of GM have to be before he's fired?

    Corporations have set the system up so that CEOs never lose. Even when the board finally decides to kick one of them out, he generally walks away with millions.

    On the other hand, the employees never win. For example, at my company we recently got a memo about how we exceeded all expectations. Did we see any bonuses? No. As a matter of fact, in the same memo we were told to expect more layoffs because "tough decisions needed to be made". We can't even get office supplies, but the executives got their bonuses.

    One former CEO at my company used shady accounting practices which led to the stock price dropping from nearly $70 to around $15 in one day (company match in our 401K was only company stock, and we were restricted from selling that stock for 2 years, so employees lost a bundle). This same CEO slashed the severance plan two days before a major layoff. Both of these actions led to class action lawsuits against the company (and the first led to an SEC investigation). To "punish" the CEO, the board gave him $40M to go away.

    My opinions about CEOs have been formed by watching the CEOs that have run the companies that I've worked for. There was one that I respected, but he was unique in that he actually founded the company and cared about it's success. He was ousted by the board. The guy that replaced him drove the company into the ground then sold off the pieces that that he couldn't kill - he was a bargain at about $20M. Since then, I've just seen a long list of greedy bastards who collect obscene amounts of money regardless of how they actually perform.
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  9. #39
    Elite Member greysfang's Avatar
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    OMG, this thread is cracking me up.
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  10. #40
    Elite Member lurkur's Avatar
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    Millions of people drag themselves into work everyday for a minimum hourly wage job, and are thankful to have a job, but these execs can't be bothered to work for $10,000 PER WEEK. Naaah, not enough motivation.

    500,000.00 divided by 12 months is about $42,000 PER MONTH. A typical employee would be lucky to get that these days for their YEARly salary. I doubt any of these execs are doing twelve times more work than their employees. The employees usually end up taking up the slack for their bosses, but then are the first to take the pay cuts and layoffs when their bosses screw up.

  11. #41
    Elite Member Novice's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by southernbelle View Post
    My dad is great to his employees, too. That's my point. All CEOs are not assholes and crooks. I feel like Obama encourages people to think that they are. I think capping salaries, no matter who they are capping or why they are doing it, is a step in the wrong direction.

    As for the comments someone made about my job, I do have student loans that I'm repaying. I don't work for my dad's company in any capacity. I work at a totally unrelated job that I applied, interviewed, and was hired for. I support myself on my own income from my job. So, enough with the "daddy" comments and insinuations that I don't know anything about the "real world" or that I'm not supporting myself. I am.
    1) and I'm sure they his employees were exstatic for him when he awarded himself $0.5m bonus, too.
    2) It wasn't an insunuation, it was a question. And I stand by my comment about that since this is the case I'm surprised that you're not nicer to Waitresses/Air hostesses/ etc. But maybe you're fortunate enough not to have to work with the general public.
    3) If you weren't so crass in some of your statements when some people are losing their job & struggling financially, you might find that you weren't an object of humour so much of the time.

    Quote Originally Posted by lurkur View Post
    Millions of people drag themselves into work everyday for a minimum hourly wage job, and are thankful to have a job, but these execs can't be bothered to work for $10,000 PER WEEK. Naaah, not enough motivation.

    500,000.00 divided by 12 months is about $42,000 PER MONTH. A typical employee would be lucky to get that these days for their YEARly salary. I doubt any of these execs are doing twelve times more work than their employees. The employees usually end up taking up the slack for their bosses, but then are the first to take the pay cuts and layoffs when their bosses screw up.
    Isn't the national average wage in the US $45k/yr? I thought I heard that recently.

    Any-hooo... you'll never guess what happened in the UK...


    Page last updated at 13:01 GMT, Tuesday, 10 February 2009
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    Former banking bosses say 'sorry'




    Apologies and contrition

    The former bosses of the two biggest UK casualties of the banking crisis have apologised "profoundly and unreservedly" for their banks' failure.
    Former Royal Bank of Scotland chief executive Sir Fred Goodwin told MPs on the Treasury Committee he "could not be more sorry" for what had happened.
    The former bank chiefs also said the bonus culture had contributed to the crisis and needed to be reviewed.
    But Sir Fred said if bankers felt they were not paid enough, they would leave.
    Sir Tom McKillop, former RBS chairman, also admitted that his bank's much-criticised purchase of Dutch rival ABN Amro had been a "big mistake".

    See how much bank bosses earned in 2007
    Personal gain
    The former bosses, along with other bankers, have been criticised for taking huge bonuses from banks that later had to rely on taxpayer money to survive.
    The MPs began by asking the former bosses about the bonuses they received in 2008.
    Sir Fred Goodwin said he had taken no bonus that year, but that he had taken home a salary of 1.46m.

    SIR FRED GOODWIN



    Former chief executive, RBS, 50
    Salary: 1.3m plus 2.9m performance bonus (2007)
    Born and raised in Paisley, near Glasgow
    Resignation announced in October 2008



    AS IT HAPPENED: Bankers grilled by MPs
    RBS to cut 2,300 jobs

    Andy Hornby, former chief executive of HBOS, said he had also not taken a a bonus last year, and that he had never taken any bonus in the form of cash.
    "I have never received one single penny in cash bonus," he said, referring to his time not only as boss of HBOS but also his time on the board.
    Instead, he said, he had taken his bonuses in the form of shares.
    "I have lost considerably more money than I have been paid," he said, referring to falls in the value of shares that he had been given as bonuses.
    Sir Fred Goodwin added he had lost around 5m on the value of his shares in 2007, although he stressed that he was not complaining.
    Bonus culture
    Mr Hornby conceded that the culture, where bankers can receive many times their salary in cash bonuses, did need to be looked at.

    SIR TOM MCKILLOP

    Former chairman, Royal Bank of Scotland, 65
    Salary: 750,000 (2007)
    Resignation announced in October 2008

    "The bonus system has proved to be wrong. Substantial cash bonuses do not reward the right kind of behaviour," he said.
    Sir Tom McKillop agreed that a fundamental review of remuneration was needed.
    But when asked whether the bonus culture encouraged excessive risk taking and had exacerbated the banking crisis, Sir Fred Goodwin argued that traders had been trading within set limits, and had simply been doing "what they were authorised to do".
    It is "hard to say that remuneration was a cause [of the bank's problems]," he said.
    Huge losses
    Sir Fred oversaw a number of acquisitions that made Edinburgh-based RBS one of the world's biggest banks.

    ANDY HORNBY

    Former chief executive, HBOS, 42
    Salary: 1.93m, including bonus and benefits (2007)
    Joined HBOS from Asda in 1999
    Resignation announced in October 2008

    But his 10bn deal to buy Dutch rival ABN Amro late in 2007 is now seen as ill-timed and a deal too far in light of RBS's inability to survive the credit crunch without a massive injection of government funds.
    Sir Tom admitted to the committee that the deal to buy ABN was "a big mistake".
    "We bought it at the top of the market and anything we paid was an error. We are sorry we bought ABN Amro," he said.
    Sir Fred said it was a "bad decision and certainly mistimed."
    He said the size of RBS, together with its lack of cash following the ABN Amro, made it particularly susceptible to the credit crunch.
    RBS is now nearly 70%-owned by the taxpayer after a government rescue package was put in place at the end of last year.
    No easy ride
    The ex-bosses of HBOS also admitted mistakes.
    When pushed, Lord Stevenson, former chairman of HBOS, said the mistake the bank made was a failure to predict the credit crunch, which effectively froze access to new funds.

    LORD STEVENSON

    Former chairman HBOS
    Salary: 821,000 including benefits (2007)
    Resignation announced in October 2008

    "The fundamental mistake of HBOS was the failure to predict the wholesale collapse of the wholesale markets," he said.
    The MPs asked why a HBOS group risk manager was sacked in 2007 for raising questions about the levels of risk the bank was taking on.
    Lord Stevenson would not be drawn on the specifics of the sacking, simply saying that it had been subject to an independent investigation.
    But Mr Hornby stressed that an over-reliance on wholesale capital markets for funding was indeed the root cause of the problem.
    "We were over-exposed to wholesale funding," he said.
    Banks use the wholesale markets to raise cash - effectively borrowing money from other financial institutions.
    When this funding dried up as a result of the credit crunch, the bank was left high and dry, he and Lord Stevenson argued.
    HBOS was rescued by Lloyds and the merged group is now more than 40%-owned by the government.
    The bosses still in place at the helm of Britain's leading banks will appear before the Treasury Committee on Wednesday.






    Bosses' pay at UK banks receiving government support


    Position Total pay (including bonuses) 2007 RBS Sir Tom McKillop Chairman 750,000 Sir Fred Goodwin Group chief executive 4,190,000 Johnny Cameron Chairman, global markets 3,256,000 HBOS Lord Stevenson Chairman 821,000 Andy Hornby Chief executive 1,926,000 Peter Cummings Chief executive, corporate division 2,606,000 Lloyds TSB Sir Victor Blank Chairman 661,000 J Eric Daniels Group chief executive 2,884,000 Terri Dial Group executive director 1,995,000 Bradford & Bingley Rod Kent Chairman 265,000 Steven Crawshaw Group chief executive 1,112,548 Chris Wilford Group finance director 700,572 Northern Rock Matt Ridley Chairman 223,000 Adam Applegarth Chief executive 785,000 David Baker Deputy chief executive 476,000
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  12. #42
    Gold Member Dorahacky's Avatar
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    If I could make $500,000 a year, I'd be ecstatic.

    I'm an office drone who works my ass off 50 hours a week for $27,500/year, before taxes. My SO got laid off last March and is still unemployed, and between the 2 of us we have 4 children.

    Our car just got repo'd, and my SO would be filing for bankruptcy, except we can't even afford that. One of the kids is an autistic, insulin-dependent diabetic, and yes, that's as difficult and expensive as one might imagine.

    So, I have no patience nor sympathy for any of these politicians or CEOs or any other of these spoiled, entitled, ignorant motherfuckers who haven't the least clue about how regular people live in this world today. I'm so sorry that you asswipes have to "downsize" to one corporate jet instead of two - how hard life must be for you!

    Just go fuck yourselves, bigwigs - some of us are having to choose which prescription we're going to fill, or whether the kids are going to have bread or eggs this week, because we can't afford for them to have both.

    And I consider myself one of the lucky ones, because at least I still have a roof over my head, which many people don't.

    A $500,000 salary cap? Wow, how Goddamned difficult that must be.
    We all like to think we're so special. But in the end, we all do the same stupid shit. - Dennis Miller


  13. #43
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    I really hope that things improve for you Dorahackey; I can't imagine how hard decisions like that must be when its for your child.
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  14. #44
    Silver Member Ettabell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by albatross View Post
    CEOs are responsible for their own bad reputations.

    For example, in 2007, GM posted a $39B loss...the effect on the CEO compensation was a 64% increase. For the additional money, GM ended 2008 begging for taxpayers to bail them out. I guess he's still not motivated enough, maybe he needs more. Exactly how bad does the CEO of GM have to be before he's fired?

    Corporations have set the system up so that CEOs never lose. Even when the board finally decides to kick one of them out, he generally walks away with millions.

    On the other hand, the employees never win. For example, at my company we recently got a memo about how we exceeded all expectations. Did we see any bonuses? No. As a matter of fact, in the same memo we were told to expect more layoffs because "tough decisions needed to be made". We can't even get office supplies, but the executives got their bonuses.

    One former CEO at my company used shady accounting practices which led to the stock price dropping from nearly $70 to around $15 in one day (company match in our 401K was only company stock, and we were restricted from selling that stock for 2 years, so employees lost a bundle). This same CEO slashed the severance plan two days before a major layoff. Both of these actions led to class action lawsuits against the company (and the first led to an SEC investigation). To "punish" the CEO, the board gave him $40M to go away.

    My opinions about CEOs have been formed by watching the CEOs that have run the companies that I've worked for. There was one that I respected, but he was unique in that he actually founded the company and cared about it's success. He was ousted by the board. The guy that replaced him drove the company into the ground then sold off the pieces that that he couldn't kill - he was a bargain at about $20M. Since then, I've just seen a long list of greedy bastards who collect obscene amounts of money regardless of how they actually perform.
    Thanks Albatross for this. I have been reading this thread and have been alternating between crying and screaming with anger! I am one of those that have worked my way up the corporate ladder all by myself. I came from a very mid level income family, my dad was a butcher and my mom stayed home to raise us until we were in high school. I went to college with no idea what I wanted to do with my life, and somehow moved up as a single mom, to middle income myself. I have worked in the medical industry for 7 years then moved on to the software side of things.
    I started at $20,000. a year when I divorced my son's father and moved up to almost $80,000 in less then 10 years. I have been the person that has had to sit in the CEO's office and explain to him/her what exactly it is that we do and how it works, and why we do it and how it will help each practice that we are/will target.
    Can I also add that I have been laid off 3 times in almost 9 years! Each time with the exception of this last one, I have dusted myself off and went out and interviewed and fought for the next postion. You want to talk about self sufficent??????
    I did it... I have been there. No one helped me. No one cared when the CEO DIDN'T get the sponsership, when the investers started backing out... he still got his bonus.... WE all got the pink slips. We, the worker bees that kept the company going, made the sales and created the productes... got laid off.
    This time I am not so lucky. There are no jobs out there for what I do. Sure, I thought, I will go work at the mall.... guess what?? NO JOBS even at the mall! I am making ends meet, thankfully, by collecting unemployment and I will continue to collect unemployment until I can find a job that will pay me at least that amount without constant travel!
    Sorry, but I am so angry now I know the spelling is horrible!

    Time for a drink....

  15. #45
    Elite Member MrsMarsters's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jin13 View Post
    Thanks Albatross for this. I have been reading this thread and have been alternating between crying and screaming with anger! I am one of those that have worked my way up the corporate ladder all by myself. I came from a very mid level income family, my dad was a butcher and my mom stayed home to raise us until we were in high school. I went to college with no idea what I wanted to do with my life, and somehow moved up as a single mom, to middle income myself. I have worked in the medical industry for 7 years then moved on to the software side of things.
    I started at $20,000. a year when I divorced my son's father and moved up to almost $80,000 in less then 10 years. I have been the person that has had to sit in the CEO's office and explain to him/her what exactly it is that we do and how it works, and why we do it and how it will help each practice that we are/will target.
    Can I also add that I have been laid off 3 times in almost 9 years! Each time with the exception of this last one, I have dusted myself off and went out and interviewed and fought for the next postion. You want to talk about self sufficent??????
    I did it... I have been there. No one helped me. No one cared when the CEO DIDN'T get the sponsership, when the investers started backing out... he still got his bonus.... WE all got the pink slips. We, the worker bees that kept the company going, made the sales and created the productes... got laid off.
    This time I am not so lucky. There are no jobs out there for what I do. Sure, I thought, I will go work at the mall.... guess what?? NO JOBS even at the mall! I am making ends meet, thankfully, by collecting unemployment and I will continue to collect unemployment until I can find a job that will pay me at least that amount without constant travel!
    Sorry, but I am so angry now I know the spelling is horrible!

    Time for a drink....

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