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Thread: Why the US wants to delegitimize the Iranian elections

  1. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    you don't think it's a bit excessive for so many cops to be on one person?
    and you did see the other pics, right? the ones with the people beaten to a bloody pulp?


    and i've looked at your links, i still see no 'proof', honestly you sound a bit like a conspiracy theorist. i'm the first one to point fingers at US interventionism but for once you have an administration who seems to have finally realised that the US does more harm than good when it tries to get involved, even when it has good intentions. and you know countries have been able to rig elections without US help before, right?
    Conspiracy theorist? Maybe. But here are some facts not in dispute: The US has a long history of orchestrating coups in Sovereign nations, including Iran. The CIA in particular has a record of orchestrating 'color revolutions' as a destabilizing strategy. In 2007, the US poured several hundred million dollars into Iran for "covert ops" for the purpose of "regime change". The neocon faction in the US and Likudniks in Israel have been threatening to attack Iran for several years.

    With these facts in mind, answer these questions: What do you think is the ultimate outcome of the situation in Iran? Do you think the Guardian Council will simply hand over power to Mousavi to quiet the crowds? If they do, do you think the pro-Ahmadinejad masses will then go quietly back to work? Will they not then have reason to shout "stolen election" and demonstrate just as fiercely as the opposition is now doing? No matter how you look at it the situation will almost certainly spiral out of control and will have to be dealt with. Cui bono? How will the US deal with it?

    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    Do you mean the Farsi word for 'Police' isn't the same as in English?

    I keep my mind open to all possibilites. We may not be involved, or we may be....time will certainly tell. History shows that.
    It is perfectly normal for the Iranian police to have English lettering on their uniforms. Nothing to see here, move along.

  2. #62
    Elite Member Fluffy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    and i've looked at your links, i still see no 'proof', honestly you sound a bit like a conspiracy theorist. i'm the first one to point fingers at US interventionism but for once you have an administration who seems to have finally realised that the US does more harm than good when it tries to get involved, even when it has good intentions. and you know countries have been able to rig elections without US help before, right?
    I'm totally with you, sput. It sounds like the election was rigged by the supreme leader, Ayatollah Khameni, in a power grab.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha View Post
    With these facts in mind, answer these questions: What do you think is the ultimate outcome of the situation in Iran? Do you think the Guardian Council will simply hand over power to Mousavi to quiet the crowds? If they do, do you think the pro-Ahmadinejad masses will then go quietly back to work? Will they not then have reason to shout "stolen election" and demonstrate just as fiercely as the opposition is now doing? No matter how you look at it the situation will almost certainly spiral out of control and will have to be dealt with. Cui bono? How will the US deal with it?
    I think the violence is going to increase, possibly over the weekend. The regime will be totally de-legitimized in the eyes of the youth. There will probably be some sort of Tianenmen incident soon.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha View Post
    It is perfectly normal for the Iranian police to have English lettering on their uniforms. Nothing to see here, move along.
    I've never seen Farsi printed on the back of bullet proof vests before, have you? This is actually easy to explain, they bought the bullet proof vests overseas from a manufacturer in Britain. Also, as noted before "Lebanese Hizbullah (Unconfirmed but highly probable. Der Spiegel, based on a Voice of America report, says that 5,000 Hizbullah fighters are currently in Iran masquerading as riot police, confirming the independent reports. Many different independent reports and video point that way. Even in the last hours other independent twitter feeds have declared witnessing thugs beating on people while shouting in Arabic; I will refer to them as Hizbullah)."

  3. #63
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    ^^^^
    you know, i really don't think the clerics are behind this. or at least not khameini and co. see my post below, i think what's going on is a shift from clerical power to increased militarisation.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha View Post
    Conspiracy theorist? Maybe. But here are some facts not in dispute: The US has a long history of orchestrating coups in Sovereign nations, including Iran. The CIA in particular has a record of orchestrating 'color revolutions' as a destabilizing strategy. In 2007, the US poured several hundred million dollars into Iran for "covert ops" for the purpose of "regime change". The neocon faction in the US and Likudniks in Israel have been threatening to attack Iran for several years.
    uote=Sasha;1778063]Conspiracy theorist? Maybe. But here are some facts not in dispute: The US has a long history of orchestrating coups in Sovereign nations, including Iran. The CIA in particular has a record of orchestrating 'color revolutions' as a destabilizing strategy. In 2007, the US poured several hundred million dollars into Iran for "covert ops" for the purpose of "regime change". The neocon faction in the US and Likudniks in Israel have been threatening to attack Iran for several years.

    With these facts in mind, answer these questions: What do you think is the ultimate outcome of the situation in Iran? Do you think the Guardian Council will simply hand over power to Mousavi to quiet the crowds? If they do, do you think the pro-Ahmadinejad masses will then go quietly back to work? Will they not then have reason to shout "stolen election" and demonstrate just as fiercely as the opposition is now doing? No matter how you look at it the situation will almost certainly spiral out of control and will have to be dealt with. Cui bono? How will the US deal with it?
    so far the only proven foreign involvement has been that of lebanese hezbollah agents, this has been reported by people on the streets.

    ultimately though, i don't think the issue is whether or not the US were involved. if they were, i don't think they were instrumental in the outcome, but probably just in terms of supporting the opposition.
    i think the real issue, like i said before, is that the rigged election and the unrest that came of it are indicative of a major shift within iranian society from governments where the mullahs called the shots to a more egyptian-styled authoritarian presidential regimes where the executive has increased powers (the presidency had little more than symbolic power before ahmedinejad came along) and is backed by military force.
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    so far the only proven foreign involvement has been that of lebanese hezbollah agents, this has been reported by people on the streets.
    which is interesting in it's own right, as Mousavi has strong ties to Hezbollah.....
    It's no longer a dog whistle, it's a fucking trombone


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  5. #65
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    ^^^^
    except they're involved in attacking protesters and helping out the pro-government police and military. strong ties to the pasdaran (iran's dreaded republican guard).
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

  6. #66
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    pics of today's protest:



  7. #67
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    I understand Sput. That's a part of why I find it interesting.

    But Hezbollah was going to get what it wanted no matter which man won. Mousavi's 'reformist' policies are only internal. The foreign policy would remain as is. Either man would still give Hezbollah what it wants.
    It's no longer a dog whistle, it's a fucking trombone


    All of God's children are not beautiful. Most of God's children are, in fact, barely presentable.


    If I wanted the government in my womb I'd fuck a Senator

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    I've never seen Farsi printed on the back of bullet proof vests before, have you? This is actually easy to explain, they bought the bullet proof vests overseas from a manufacturer in Britain.

    I guess they haven't had time/can't afford to put Farsi lettering on the vests.

  9. #69
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    The AP is just now reporting:


    Iran accuses US of interference in election feud

    By ALI AKBAR DAREINI – 25 minutes ago

    TEHRAN, Iran (AP) — Iran has accused the United States of "intolerable" meddling in its internal affairs, alleging for the first time that Washington has fueled a bitter post-election dispute.

    A state television channel in Iran says the government summoned the Swiss ambassador, who represents U.S. interests in Iran, to complain about American interference. The two countries broke off diplomatic relations after the 1979 Islamic Revolution. An English-language state-run channel quoted the government as calling Western interference "intolerable."

    An amateur video showed thousands marching Wednesday on an overpass in the capital in support of pro-reform candidate Mir Hossein Mousavi's election campaign. Mousavi has accused the government of rigging the election in favor of hard-line President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad.

    The Associated Press: Iran accuses US of interference in election feud
    It's no longer a dog whistle, it's a fucking trombone


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  10. #70
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    the whole of the western world is interfering then, by decrying the fraudulent elections and condemning the violent crackdown on protesters.
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

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    The only reason they're complaining is because of the Twitter issue. I heard that the U.S. asked Twitter to keep the server available over a certain time period so people could report what was going on. Or something along those lines. Iran hasn't figured out how to completely block ALL communications so their pissed.

  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    The only reason they're complaining is because of the Twitter issue. I heard that the U.S. asked Twitter to keep the server available over a certain time period so people could report what was going on. Or something along those lines. Iran hasn't figured out how to completely block ALL communications so their pissed.
    Yup. Twitter had a scheduled outage during US night time. State Dept called them up and asked them to delay it until Iranian night time.

  13. #73
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    ^^
    which was actually retarded because they postponed their maintenance until 1am iranian time, which is when the police forces like to hit the student residences and arrest/beat people.
    but hey, they tried...
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha View Post
    Cali, one self-serving statement from the US Ambassador to Iraq is not a debunking. You place far too much trust in 'authorities'. Hersch has a proven track record.

    What do you think it means to pour money into a foreign country in a "bid to undermine the current regime"?
    I'm not doubting that the money was invested. I'm doubting that the factions we funded are at play here. Which is why I posted all of the OTHER information in that post, showing that the funding centered around info gathering on their nuclear arms, and on funding groups like the Jundallah.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha View Post
    It is perfectly normal for the Iranian police to have English lettering on their uniforms. Nothing to see here, move along.
    You're reaching with this one. This is common practice in Iran- they also post street signs, and business banners in English:




    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha View Post
    Conspiracy theorist? Maybe. But here are some facts not in dispute: The US has a long history of orchestrating coups in Sovereign nations, including Iran. The CIA in particular has a record of orchestrating 'color revolutions' as a destabilizing strategy. In 2007, the US poured several hundred million dollars into Iran for "covert ops" for the purpose of "regime change".
    Like I mentioned earlier, that CIA funding appears to have gone to funding organizations like the Jundallah. Here, look at the kind of stuff Jundallah has been involved in:

    Jundallah - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    This is totally the kind of stuff that the CIA historically has funded in order to destabilize countries. That's how they operate. That's their MO.

    They don't fund people like Mousavi, or Tehrani University Students who form Iranian rock bands, or women's groups who fight against the abuses of the moral police.

    But those are the people involved in the Mousavi uprising, not the Jundallah.

    In Afghanistan, when the Soviets invaded, there were pro-democracy, pro-western movements in Afghanistan willing to fight against the Soviets. The CIA suggested instead to support the Mujahadeen, because they didn't think the pro-democracy groups were crazy enough to win. So they picked the craziest ones around, gave them guns, then started dropping propaganda leaflets about how the soviets will make all Afghani women whores on the streets of Kabul.

    That's how the US intelligence service intervenes. So yeah, it makes total sense that we'd be funding a group like the Jundallah. But not that we'd be behind a popular uprising behind a guy like Mousavi.

  15. #75
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    Mousavi was instrumental in the execution of 30000 dissidents in the 1980's. He's as hardline as they come. Just the type US Inperialists LOVE. Pro-democracy forces are NEVER their regimes of choice.

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