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Thread: Why do straights hate gays? (Larry Kramer)

  1. #16
    Elite Member celeb_2006's Avatar
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    I understand his anger and frustrations; however, I do believe he should have mentioned Bill Richardson, the democratic presidential hopeful. He mentions obama and hillary, rightfully so, but he forgets to mention the one person that DID say something meaningful. From another thread comes this quote from Bill on the heels of general pace's statements:

    Meanwhile, Democratic hopeful Bill Richardson called Pace's remarks "unfortunate" and said the Bush administration should reject them, adding that he would push Congress to repeal military's "don't ask, don't tell policy" in which gay service members are required to keep their sexual orientation private.
    "People should not be judged based on their sexual orientation," the New Mexico Governor said in Santa Fe. "Throughout my entire career I have fought for equal rights and against discrimination of any kind."


    That is quite the powerful but simple message, no double speak and no ridiculous hemming and hawing a la hillary/obama. More people should notice this, Bill is a man of principles.

  2. #17
    A*O
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    My kids do occasionally hear inappropriate remarks (unfortunately there are still plenty of Aussie homophobe/racist rednecks) but the kids are sufficiently informed and 'evolved' to realise it's total shit and the people who say it are ignorant assholes. It can be tricky though because the Australian sense of humour is often based on insults being the highest form of flattery so "How're ya goin' ya great big pooftah" is a term of sincere affection and is said without a hint of malice. Newly arrived Americans find this type of thing very confronting at first, but once they lighten up and stop looking to take offence where absolutely none is intended they fit in just fine. It IS a delicate area though so you have to tread very carefully.
    I've never liked lesbianism - it leaves a bad taste in my mouth
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  3. #18
    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shedevilang View Post
    well that's what I do Grimm just curious if anyone else has had this problem lol I think the only way this shit will ever get better is if we try and teach our children not to be ignorant. My oldest has a different dad and i've had to set his ass strait a time or three about using anti-gay crap around my son. I can remember him freaking out when he saw my son wearing my high heels when he was like 2 the first of many fights

    Just be firm! And just refuse to tolerate it, but nicely-because he is being taught by ignorance on the other side-not his fault, so calmly
    point out you don't like that behavior and why-in private so he won't get defensive. that he would be judgemental of a 2 year old must drive you nuts! His dad sounds pompous! You have your hands full.
    I didn't start out to collect diamonds, but somehow they just kept piling up.-Mae West

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    A*O
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    I still think that hetero men who have such a violent and irrational fear/hatred of gays are desperately trying to suppress their own latent homoerotic tendencies.
    I've never liked lesbianism - it leaves a bad taste in my mouth
    Dame Edna Everage

    Just because you're offended doesn't mean you're right.

  5. #20
    Elite Member Aella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A*O View Post
    I still think that hetero men who have such a violent and irrational fear/hatred of gays are desperately trying to suppress their own latent homoerotic tendencies.
    Bingo! It may not be true in all cases, but I've known one or two raging homophobes in my day who were obviously so desperately in love with their equally Neanderthal-like buddies, it wasn't even funny. And of course they took furious objection when I would point it out to them.

    The article is certainly powerful, though I doubt there is one sense-making answer to the question. Because people, as a whole, are scum?

  6. #21
    Elite Member CRAZY 'N' NUTS's Avatar
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    Two of my male bestfriends are gay, they crack me up. Gay guys are so witty and bitchy I love it!

    It's sad, i've seen this hatred not long ago. I work with a gay man at work, most of the straight mucho guys befriends him to his face, but when he leaves they make snarky comments about him. I've seen and heard this a few times and ignored it, but last week I couldn't tolerate their persistant stupidity any longer so I told them off. They shrugged it off and said 'come on you, you know we're joking, its ok' I told them it's not okay and I find it very offensive. They havent spoken to me since, I bet they are calling me an uptight bitch behind my back.. but I dont give a shit. Its funny thou, these are 30+ men with kids...whatta bunch of morans

  7. #22
    Hit By Ban Bus! UndercoverGator's Avatar
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    Shedevil, no matter what ignorant people might say around your kids it's truly what they see you do every day that influences them the most. This isn't much different than the turbulent battles of the early sixties to give blacks equality, and in that instance eventually prevailing attitudes did start to change and it's the law of the land now. I look for the same thing to happen with homosexuality and this nation.

    As a child my father was a Klan member and I never bought into his hateful rhetoric for two reasons, 1) my mother taught me from an early age that people are people regardless of how different they are and 2) the black domestics at our home showed me such great love as a kid that I knew in my heart that blacks weren't some sort of subhuman race with all the evils my father believed. Eventually my father came to see just how wrong he'd been and admitted it. If he can change that much there is hope for the rest of this nation.

    Your kids watch you and what you do all the time so it's important to model the right attitudes that you want them to have without being all lecture-y about it. Last year my daughter wanted to go see a live stage version of "Hedwig and the Angry Inch" just off campus at our local university and so we went to the midnight showing. Walked in and there were male go go dancers in the windows, stripped down to booty shorts, glitter bedecked and just hotting it up. The cast and most of the audience were flamingly gay and I could see the few straight men waiting to get in were getting very uncomfortable. I ended up talking to some of the cast/crowd/go go dancers and had a hoot dancing with one guy while we were waiting. Afterwards, when we were headed home my teenage daughter (who hasn't been exposed to masses of gay men before) turned to me and said she was touched how nice I'd been to those guys, which, in turn, led to a long convo on the ride home about how we're all just humans, we're all the same and it's wrong to hate for reasons like color, sexuality or religion, that the great thing about being alive is that we're all so different in our sameness. All you can do is to love others just where they are.

  8. #23
    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    You are so right,Gator-kids watch what we do and say.
    To our gay friends I say: there are always going to be a few nasty,loathsome people. There are always going to be more nice,normal people who accept you. Ignore the bad, cherish the good.
    I didn't start out to collect diamonds, but somehow they just kept piling up.-Mae West

  9. #24
    Elite Member Chilly Willy's Avatar
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    To sum it up, as many have said, the only thing one can do about it, is to make a difference in your own environment.

    I won't tolerate gay or racist jokes, I will not ever be friends with homophobes or racists, I will speak out whenever I witness discrimination.

    And most importantly, I will raise my children to do the same.

    And I don't agree with the negative outlook of the author of this article. I notice how things change, in Europe and even in the US.
    Last edited by Chilly Willy; March 22nd, 2007 at 07:56 AM.
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  10. #25
    Elite Member crackho's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lobelia View Post
    I've never had this conversation with a Jew, which is fortunate because the Old Testament is less supportive of my stance.
    This is true, but the funny thing is that most of the jewish people I know are very accepting of gays. I think people are ashamed of sex in general in the U.S. and I think that many people have "feelings" that go in the same sex direction. Those that have stronger "feelings" but are fearful of society and family finding out are the ones that seem to protest too much.

    It is sad. I have done a lot of work on internalized homophobia, and to be honest as much as I accept myself and as out as I am, I still suffer from some issues that deal directly with abuse I have endured because of my sexual orientation. Much of it is internal, and I try not to use it as an excuse or act like a victim, but it is still there, and I sometimes suffer from feelings of guilt and shame, especially around my family.

    That said, I wouldn't change the way I am even if I could.

  11. #26
    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
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    That's something i have never understood Grimm when I was still working they had a petition going around work one time about gay marriage I forget exactley what the petiton was for but I didn't approve of it because it was anti-gay and these people were just pure stupid about it there reasoning was pure ignorance. And they got totally pissed because I wouldn't sign it. and of course I was told how I was going to burn in hell for my wicked thinking(oh how many times have i heard this).

    That had no business going on in a workplace.

  12. #27
    Elite Member Dean James's Avatar
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    Sometimes I feel like America really is like that scene in Borat where the cowboy dude says they want to kill all the gays and muslims. Ignorance is bliss? Hardly.

    I'm lucky to be in a place where tolerance is high and negativity low- there are incidents where people get beat up but those get prosecuted as the hate crimes they are. I guess these things take time, I'm certainly going to raise my children to be openminded and hopefully they'll do the same for theirs.
    Baby, by the time you have kids and they're in school, no one will care about you.

  13. #28
    Gold Member greeneyedbeauty's Avatar
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    Why do gays care if straight people like them or not?
    If a straight person doesn't like a gay person and they make nasty comments then their comments and actions speak or themselves, it shows just how little brains they do have and their opinions shouldn't matter to begin with.

  14. #29
    Elite Member Dean James's Avatar
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    It's not entirely a matter of straight people liking gay people, it's more about rights and laws being equal. Kramer wants to see the same rights a married straight couple has offered to a gay couple. He intones that homophobia prevents that from happening.
    Baby, by the time you have kids and they're in school, no one will care about you.

  15. #30
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Yeah, I could really care less if str8 people liked me or not.. but the fact is, str8 people make up 80/90 percent of society and they have the capability of making MY life horrible through legislation or abuse.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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