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Thread: Why anybody against national healthcare is a fucking idiot

  1. #31
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    well then your sister is an idiot playing games with her life, and her doctor sucks ass for being a douche.

    Tell her to get her colonial ass to another doctor that will look up her poop chute within a week!
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  2. #32
    A*O
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    Sigh - I know Grimm. I was there for 3 weeks recently and got in her face about it every day. She just got pissy and buried her head back in the sand.
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  3. #33
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    tell her to enjoy the butt tumours that will eat her intestines!
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  4. #34
    Super Moderator Tati's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A*O View Post
    Srsly LOL What's even more baffling is that fact that she's a "high risk" (Dad died of colon cancer) yet her doctor's don't seem particularly concerned and, even more baffling, neither is she. She's in BC if that makes a difference.
    I don't know anything about BC's system specifically, but health care in Canada isn't actually nationalized as such. Each province has its own system; it's federally mandated that the province has to have a system, and they receive funding for it, and any Canadian will be treated in any province they happen to be in, but the systems do vary.

    I'm very surprised she's been waiting this long - I think my parents have each had about three or four colonoscopies (they like to tell me things...) in the past couple of years.
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  5. #35
    A*O
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    You're right Tati. I think this is probably more about her not wanting to know than anything else. If she really was concerned I'm sure she could and would have done it by now. I hope she's OK but based on Dad's illness, the fact that several of his siblings have had pre-cancerous polyps removed, and there being a strong genetic link with this type of cancer I don't think sis has anything to be complacent about.
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  6. #36
    Elite Member nana55's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by A*O View Post
    While the US system is in desperate need of reform to make it fairer and more accessible for everyone, the public-only Canadian system has some weaknesses too. My sister has been waiting 4 YEARS for a colonoscopy. She could hop over the border to the US and have one tomorrow if she wanted to but that would mean paying for it and her wallet is even more tightly sealed than her sphincter. Overall, the dual public/private system seems to offer the most flexibility.

    The next challenge would be to decide if contributions to a public system should be means tested so the "haves" put in more than the "have nots".
    I find that VERY hard to believe. My nephew-in-law who is 40 is complaining because his doctor wants him to have one. He is having it in about 2 weeks. Something sounds fishy. I just got back from Canada and they ALL said, even my conservative relatives, that they would not want our health care no matter what.
    If I can't be a good example, then let me be a horrible warning.

  7. #37
    A*O
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    Well I'm not making it up, but I do think it's partly due to her unwillingness to insist on having one. But there is a wider point about long waits in the public system which are almost inevitable when so many people want to use finite resources. The UK National Health System has been creaking for yers under the strain of the huge demand placed on it by so many people and successive Governments who haven't been willing to invest the necessary funding - not that there will ever be sufficient funding at it's a notorious financial Black Hole. Nevertheless the UK system does a great job for people who need emergency or acute care, maternity and obstetrics and other urgent surgery. It falls down on elective surgery or proceedures with sometimes unacceptably long waiting lists. Avoiding a long wait for treatment is one of the main reasons people get private health cover too and it has to be said that in certain instances the private sector does offer more state of the art facilities because they can afford them.
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  8. #38
    Elite Member Wiseguy's Avatar
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    I have lived and worked in England, Canada, the United States and Australia and used their health care systems. The best system (in my opinion) is the system in Australia. It's not perfect, but it is a national health care system which is taxed on your gross income and is means tested. The dual private/public system works well and means you have choice and flexibility about where you have surgery. I wish the US had a similar system.

    People in the US do have some genuine concerns, but if a plan is adopted based on a successful model, then we will have a mostly very successful health care system open to everybody, no matter what their financial situation is.

    I really hope we adopt a national health care system soon. It's long overdue.
    Last edited by Wiseguy; August 16th, 2009 at 06:15 AM.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dallas_Munro View Post
    This happens regardless of whether healthcare is socialized (ie., "free") or not. It happens in Canada, it happens in Europe, it happens in Australia. It happens.

    Either way, we'll all end up paying. Whether you opt into the Government-subsidized program or not, money's coming out of your pocket. What we need to concern ourselves with first is how healthcare is managed, not how much it costs.

    I've lived all over and can tell you that the only time medical bills created an issue was in teh states. Everywhere else it costs very little overall out of your salary to provide services for everyone. And speaking of everyone...
    Quote Originally Posted by oltifreakinbaby View Post
    That's what I believed as well.


    My mom's insurance at her job is actually very good. She has great benefits and she knows she's lucky to have them. I do think we'll end up paying more in taxes with nationalized health care, but not as much as I originally thought we would.


    Another question somebody brought up to me was: When you pay for private health care (whether through a job or whatever), you know you're paying for something your family needs. With nationalized health care, you're contributing to EVERYONE. Not everybody is fond of their money going towards that.
    Would you actually begrudge anyone the right to health care, based on their ability to pay? That is just shocking to me. There but for the grace of God/whomever, eh?

    Quote Originally Posted by A*O View Post
    While the US system is in desperate need of reform to make it fairer and more accessible for everyone, the public-only Canadian system has some weaknesses too. My sister has been waiting 4 YEARS for a colonoscopy. She could hop over the border to the US and have one tomorrow if she wanted to but that would mean paying for it and her wallet is even more tightly sealed than her sphincter. Overall, the dual public/private system seems to offer the most flexibility.

    The next challenge would be to decide if contributions to a public system should be means tested so the "haves" put in more than the "have nots".
    Dual flexibility is a good thing and I've seen it in a number of countries and it works. That said, having used socialized medicine extensively it has actually generally been fantastic and better than any private I've used.

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseguy View Post
    I have lived and worked in England, Canada, the United States and Australia and used their health care systems. The best system (in my opinion) is the system in Australia. It's not perfect, but it is a national health care system which is taxed on your gross income and is means tested. The dual private/public system works well and means you have choice and flexibility about where you have surgery. I wish the US had a similar system.

    People in the US do have some genuine concerns, but if a plan is adopted based on a successful model, then we will have a mostly very successful health care system open to everybody, no matter what their financial situation is.

    I really hope we adopt a national health care system soon. It's long overdue.

    It will come, but with lots of wailing and gnashing of repug teeth.
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    Quote Originally Posted by A*O View Post
    Srsly LOL What's even more baffling is that fact that she's a "high risk" (Dad died of colon cancer) yet her doctor's don't seem particularly concerned and, even more baffling, neither is she. She's in BC if that makes a difference.
    Yeah, your sister's full of it. There's no reason for her to have to wait. She chooses to wait. Why, I couldn't say. The logical thing is to have the test done and nip that shit in the bud if there's a problem. Pre-cancer cells don't just disappear. They turn into cancer.

    Quote Originally Posted by A*O View Post
    Prescriptions are subsidised here and in the UK with some people getting their meds for free (pregnant women, pensioners, etc). The pharmacists are very good here at suggesting cheaper alternatives and/or generics for more expensive medications the doctors prescribe in return for their resort holiday in Fiji or whatever - cynical, moi? Yeah, she does need to get a new doctor because I'd be thumping the desk demanding the damn proceedure, but to be honest I think she prefers to prevaricate (it's a Libra thing).
    HEY!! THAT'S A LIE!!! *shakes fist* I am a Libra, and I am a notorious (some might say compulsive) truth-teller. Hmph.



    Quote Originally Posted by buttmunch View Post
    I've lived all over and can tell you that the only time medical bills created an issue was in teh states. Everywhere else it costs very little overall out of your salary to provide services for everyone.
    Oh I believe you. But the fact remains that there are people in other countries where healthcare is subsidized/nationalized/whatever that are unable to pay for treatment without making sacrifices. Show me a place where NOBODY has to struggle to pay medical bills and I'll show you a Utopia.
    Bringin' up old shit since 1998.

  11. #41
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    uh, Canada.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by A*O View Post
    Srsly LOL What's even more baffling is that fact that she's a "high risk" (Dad died of colon cancer) yet her doctor's don't seem particularly concerned and, even more baffling, neither is she. She's in BC if that makes a difference.
    This is my friend Sam:

    'Draconian' policy stymies cancer patient

    She lost her battle with cancer earlier this year. She was denied a PET scan that could've saved her life. She was faced with the choice of paying thousands of dollars she didn't have for a PET scan in Quebec or fight the system. If she had lived in Quebec, she could've gotten the PET scan. So, there are weaknesses in Canada's sytem.

  13. #43
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    She wasn't denied a PET scan, the scanners they had were being used for other things. They didn't have any devoted to patients beyond the one doing cardiovascular work. It's not like they can just point it at you and BEEP, ok here's your cancer. If it's being calibrated for other things, whole other software and calibration is needed. It's specific.

    What IS stupid is that they don't have any of these particular scanners doing any cancer related work like the one in Quebec.

    In the end, no system is perfect, There's always gonna be holes. Hell, if this lady had lived in quebec she would have gotten it done right away. Not all provinces have the same facilities.
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  14. #44
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    Trust me the Canadian system works. You don't see us bellyaching for more "competition", or "privatization", do you? That's because we all treasure our health care!

  15. #45
    A*O
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    Dragging US healthcare kicking and screaming into anything approaching a universal system is a big enough mountain to climb - many have tried and failed. An even bigger challenge is overcoming the public's suspicion about the whole idea. Believe me, if it's 3am and you or a loved one needs urgent medical attention which you know you will receive without worrying about how the hell you are going to pay for it you won't begrudge those extra few dollars from your paycheck. If you don't like the idea of your money paying "for someone else" that's more an indictment on you than it is on the system.
    I've never liked lesbianism - it leaves a bad taste in my mouth
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