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Thread: Why anybody against national healthcare is a fucking idiot

  1. #16
    Elite Member cupcake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by *DIVA! View Post
    And again, she can keep the health care she has with her job. I'm sorry, but that's in the Bill, so what bill did you read?
    Im under the impression that if her employee drops that insurance company then she will not be able to stay with them .I think some of the concern is that these businesses may not keep the insurance company they have.
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  2. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by A*O View Post
    When you do the math, also bear in mind that healthcare taxes are (usually) deducted from your gross income, while private healthcare premiums come out of your net income. Nowhere are public healthcare contributions/taxes so punitively high that you end up wondering how to pay your mortgage or phone bill while I bet there's a lot of people who have that dilemma every month or are even forced to cancel their private health insurance. It's all about perception.
    This happens regardless of whether healthcare is socialized (ie., "free") or not. It happens in Canada, it happens in Europe, it happens in Australia. It happens.

    Either way, we'll all end up paying. Whether you opt into the Government-subsidized program or not, money's coming out of your pocket. What we need to concern ourselves with first is how healthcare is managed, not how much it costs.
    Bringin' up old shit since 1998.

  3. #18
    Silver Member oltifreakinbaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cupcake View Post
    Im under the impression that if her employee drops that insurance company then she will not be able to stay with them .I think some of the concern is that these businesses may not keep the insurance company they have.

    That's what I believed as well.


    My mom's insurance at her job is actually very good. She has great benefits and she knows she's lucky to have them. I do think we'll end up paying more in taxes with nationalized health care, but not as much as I originally thought we would.


    Another question somebody brought up to me was: When you pay for private health care (whether through a job or whatever), you know you're paying for something your family needs. With nationalized health care, you're contributing to EVERYONE. Not everybody is fond of their money going towards that.

  4. #19
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Yeah, again you pay for roads and a military and schools and signs and social programs that everybody uses so how the fuck is this different? None of it is in the constitution, and you personally use about 5000 different government programs that everybody pays into every day already.

    You contribute to everybody else, they contribute to you in return. Welcome to SOCIETY.

    You people really, REALLY need to break out of this "I'm not getting my money's worth, 5000 other socialized programs are fine, but NOT THIS ONE because.. um.. because! ME ME ME ME ME ME" lifestyle attitude. It's holding you back.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  5. #20
    Silver Member oltifreakinbaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    Yeah, again you pay for roads and a military and schools and signs and social programs that everybody uses so how the fuck is this different? None of it is in the constitution, and you personally use about 5000 different government programs that everybody pays into every day already.

    You contribute to everybody else, they contribute to you in return. Welcome to SOCIETY.

    You people really, REALLY need to break out of this "I'm not getting my money's worth, 5000 other socialized programs are fine, but NOT THIS ONE because.. um.. because! ME ME ME ME ME ME" lifestyle attitude. It's holding you back.

    No Grimm, I'm not saying I disagree with it. The only qualms I had about it was the economics.


    Ehh, I don't really have a preference over it anymore. If it happens, okay. If it doesn't, okay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    Yeah, again you pay for roads and a military and schools and signs and social programs that everybody uses so how the fuck is this different? None of it is in the constitution, and you personally use about 5000 different government programs that everybody pays into every day already.

    You contribute to everybody else, they contribute to you in return. Welcome to SOCIETY.

    You people really, REALLY need to break out of this "I'm not getting my money's worth, 5000 other socialized programs are fine, but NOT THIS ONE because.. um.. because! ME ME ME ME ME ME" lifestyle attitude. It's holding you back.
    I don't have a preference. I don't see why we even have to choose, really. I'm all for Government-subsidized healthcare, I just don't want that to be the *only* option. I want people to have a choice, I don't want people to be forced to choose a plan they don't want simply because their employer (or the Guvment) chose it.
    Bringin' up old shit since 1998.

  7. #22
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Well again.. there's basic national healthcare that everybody can get, which is supplemented by whatever work benefits you get.

    Up here in the klondike, usually that's various dental plans (in europe, i think national healthcare covers dental too, which is so not fair ) as well as paying like 98% of the prescriptions for antibiotics and other such things.. usually you pay 2-5 bucks for a dispensing fee at the counter out of pocket.. and eye care, glasses and such.

    that way everybody is covered for the major stuff (hospital stays, treatment) and work picks up the rest.

    I don't see why that's a bad thing. Works great!

    I'd also like to add, that when i was unemployed for a few months back in the day, i got a seriously bad sinus/chest infection.. i dragged myself to a clinic and the doc saw me.. wrote me a prescrip for 2 weeks worth of antibiotics.. since i didn't have any work coverage, it would have cost me 60 bucks out of pocket. Down in the US that would have run me a few hundred no doubt. I didn't even have 60 bucks, so the doc gave me 2 weeks worth of free samples LOL
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    ^^ See, that's EXACTLY what I'm talkin' 'bout, Grimm! Me wanty!!! Stupid cowardly repug asshats...
    Bringin' up old shit since 1998.

  9. #24
    Silver Member oltifreakinbaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    Well again.. there's basic national healthcare that everybody can get, which is supplemented by whatever work benefits you get.

    Up here in the klondike, usually that's various dental plans (in europe, i think national healthcare covers dental too, which is so not fair ) as well as paying like 98% of the prescriptions for antibiotics and other such things.. usually you pay 2-5 bucks for a dispensing fee at the counter out of pocket.. and eye care, glasses and such.

    that way everybody is covered for the major stuff (hospital stays, treatment) and work picks up the rest.

    I don't see why that's a bad thing. Works great!

    I'd also like to add, that when i was unemployed for a few months back in the day, i got a seriously bad sinus/chest infection.. i dragged myself to a clinic and the doc saw me.. wrote me a prescrip for 2 weeks worth of antibiotics.. since i didn't have any work coverage, it would have cost me 60 bucks out of pocket. Down in the US that would have run me a few hundred no doubt. I didn't even have 60 bucks, so the doc gave me 2 weeks worth of free samples LOL

    That makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately, that's not the information that's presented to the masses, so it leads to a lot of confusion.

  10. #25
    A*O
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    While the US system is in desperate need of reform to make it fairer and more accessible for everyone, the public-only Canadian system has some weaknesses too. My sister has been waiting 4 YEARS for a colonoscopy. She could hop over the border to the US and have one tomorrow if she wanted to but that would mean paying for it and her wallet is even more tightly sealed than her sphincter. Overall, the dual public/private system seems to offer the most flexibility.

    The next challenge would be to decide if contributions to a public system should be means tested so the "haves" put in more than the "have nots".
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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    I find it hard to believe your sister has been waiting that long for a colonoscopy. Srsly.

    There has to be something we don't know, cuz i can walk down the damn street and get one done this evening.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  12. #27
    A*O
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    Srsly LOL What's even more baffling is that fact that she's a "high risk" (Dad died of colon cancer) yet her doctor's don't seem particularly concerned and, even more baffling, neither is she. She's in BC if that makes a difference.
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  13. #28
    Elite Member Fluffy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oltifreakinbaby View Post
    That makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately, that's not the information that's presented to the masses, so it leads to a lot of confusion.
    Sure, if you only watch Fox News. There's plenty of good information posted in multiple places. "The masses" aren't bothering to think for themselves as usual.

  14. #29
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    A*0, how about she find ANOTHER DOCTOR?

    has she tried that?
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  15. #30
    A*O
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    Prescriptions are subsidised here and in the UK with some people getting their meds for free (pregnant women, pensioners, etc). The pharmacists are very good here at suggesting cheaper alternatives and/or generics for more expensive medications the doctors prescribe in return for their resort holiday in Fiji or whatever - cynical, moi? Yeah, she does need to get a new doctor because I'd be thumping the desk demanding the damn proceedure, but to be honest I think she prefers to prevaricate (it's a Libra thing).
    If all the women in this place were laid end to end, I wouldn’t be surprised - Dorothy Parker

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