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Thread: Who is really responsible for the high prices you pay for gasoline?

  1. #31
    Elite Member tkdgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crumpet View Post
    Does anyone else think the oil lobby has blocked attempts to make alternative fuels? To me it's much like the auto industry did to block the electric car.
    Maybe a few. But there are companies like BP, Chevron, who are actively looking at alternatives.

    A government big enough to give you everything you want,
    is strong enough to take everything you have. ~Thomas Jefferson

  2. #32
    Elite Member Little Wombat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crumpet View Post
    Does anyone else think the oil lobby has blocked attempts to make alternative fuels? To me it's much like the auto industry did to block the electric car.
    There probably is some truth to that: it's probably more cost effective for them to continue developing oil (their strength), and it would take years and lots of $$ to develop alternative fuels.

    But I don't think it's the whole reason. Nothing in the world is as energy efficient as oil when it comes to cost and how much energy you can get out of it.

    Perhaps you've seen oil company ads in the past few years (BP for many years, in fact) promoting themselves as energy companies instead. I think they've realized they need to develop themselves outside of oil in order to have a future.

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    fft, they're paying lip service to looking. There are solutions all around.

    The problem is infrastucture and the need to change it.. that costs a shitload of money, a shitload they aren't willing to pay. They have shareholders. It's not going to happen.
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    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Here's something that I'm wondering about -- electric cars. It has been said that the American auto industry has no interest in them because they require almost no maintenance. No fan belts to replace. No oil to change. No spark plugs to change. No air filter to change.

    The oil industry would be just one of the players in providing the energy that would charge the batteries. Nuclear, coal, hydro, ethanol, solar, etc. could all be part of the power for an electric car. And an electric car has twice the energy efficiency of a car based on an internal combustion engine.

    Tesla motors has a car that gets 250 miles on a single charge and goes 0-60 as fast as a Ferrari. But the battery situation with it is ridiculous. They use lithium-ion (which is why it goes so far on a single charge). However, it requires a matrix of 3,100 batteries to do this. And it's at least 1/3 the cost of the car (the car costs about 70K).

    The problem right now is the battery. It's not where it needs to be, and it messes up the economics of getting an electric car, even with today's gas prices.

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    Elite Member Little Wombat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkdgirl View Post
    Drilling in ANWAR is only part of the solution. I never said it was the only one. Clearly you have seen different research than I have regarding ANWAR and reserves. And IBD didn't misrepresent the issue other than to give one side, which almost every journalistic outlet does. It just happens to be the side you don't agree with.
    ANWAR is not even part of the soloution:
    A 1998 United States Geological Survey (USGS) study indicated at least 4.3 billion (95% probability) and possibly as much as 11.8 billion (5% probability) barrels (0.9 to 2.5 km³) of technically recoverable oil exists in the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge 1002 area, with a mean value of 7.7 billion barrels (1.7 km³).

    The U.S. consumes about 20 million barrels (3,200,000 m³) daily.
    Arctic Refuge drilling controversy - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    95% chance of only 4.3 billion barrels.
    4.3 billion/20 million = 215 days' worth of US daily oil demand.

  6. #36
    Elite Member Little Wombat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    Here's something that I'm wondering about -- electric cars. ....
    I remember hearing that Toyota was working on one. Or at least I think it was. Maybe there will be a reliable one in a few years.

    Part of the problem is that we can't possibly replace all the cars on the road instantly with electric cars. Or hybrids for that matter. It would take years for hybrids or electrics to have a serious impact.

  7. #37
    Elite Member tkdgirl's Avatar
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    There's a new electric car out called the Tesla, but its hardly affordable... it's 100k.

    A government big enough to give you everything you want,
    is strong enough to take everything you have. ~Thomas Jefferson

  8. #38
    Elite Member Little Wombat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkdgirl View Post
    There's a new electric car out called the Tesla, but its hardly affordable... it's 100k.
    MohandasKGanja already mentioned it, said it has battery issues.

    Also, for anyone that's interested, here's the site to the movie I mentioned earlier, "A Crude Awakening."

    A Crude Awakening / The Oil Crash

    Apparently, it's now available on iTunes.
    Last edited by Tati; May 13th, 2008 at 11:25 AM.

  9. #39
    Elite Member Just Kill Me's Avatar
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    Doesn't make sense to have electric cars and still have use coal for a souce of energy.
    The Tesla motors thing is very cool and far from affordable.
    I think BP and Chevron just buy the most ad space regarding environmental stuff; I think Shell actually does more.
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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Here's how the top 5 that have gas stations in the US rank:

    Company: BP
    Brand(s): BP, Arco, Aral
    HQ: London, U.K.
    Top countries it gets oil from: Canada, Iraq, Nigeria, Saudi Arabia, Angola
    Average price per gallon: $2.36
    CSR score:6.8
    2005 gross profit:$57 billion
    2005 spending on alternative energy: ~$600 million
    2005 spending on community reinvestment: $95.5 million
    61 percent in U.S.

    Company: Royal Dutch Shell
    Brand(s): Shell
    HQ: The Hague
    Top countries it gets oil from: Mexico, Algeria, Ecuador, Nigeria, China
    Average price per gallon: $2.35
    CSR score: 6
    2005 gross profit: $54.1 billion
    2005 spending on alternative energy: Royal Dutch Shell says it has invested $1 billion to date in alternative energy, but would not disclose what it spends annually.
    2005 spending on community reinvestment: $127 million figures are for all of
    Royal Dutch Shell, not just Shell U.S

    Company: Exxon/Mobil
    Brand(s): Exxon, Mobil, Esso
    HQ: suburbs of Dallas, Texas
    Top countries it gets oil from: Mexico, Canada, Angola, Saudi Arabia, Iraq
    Average price per gallon: $2.36
    CSR score: 3.7
    2005 gross profit: $158 billion
    2005 spending on alternative energy: Exxon/Mobil says it has spent $74 billion in the last five years “to expand energy supplies,” both renewable and nonrenewable, but would not provide a detailed breakdown.
    2005 spending on community reinvestment: $132.8 million
    61 percent in U.S.

    Company: Citgo (The U.S. subsidiary of Petróleos de Venezuela)
    Brand(s): citgo
    HQ: Houston, Texas(and Caracas, Venezuela)
    Top countries it gets oil from: Venezuela, Mexico, Brazil, Algeria, Ecuador
    Average price per gallon: $2.38
    CSR score: Not ranked
    2005 gross profit: Citgo made $730 million in net profit annually but would not disclose its gross.
    2005 spending on alternative energy: ~$167 million
    2005 spending on community reinvestment: $30 million figures are for Citgo, not for all of Petróleos de Venezuela, 61 percent in U.S.

    Company: Chevron
    Brand(s): Chevron, Texaco, Caltex, Conoco, Standard Oil, Phillips 66, Union 76
    HQ: San Ramon, California
    Top countries it gets oil from: Mexico, Saudi Arabia, Ecuador, Angola, Iraq
    Average price per gallon: $2.38
    CSR score:4.3
    2005 gross profit:$57.2 billion
    2005 spending on alternative energy: ~$300 million
    2005 spending on community reinvestment: $73.1 million 54 percent to North America
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  11. #41
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    so a token amount.. probably all goes to stupid ad campaigns trying to push how green they are anyway, or to lobbying.

    so 300 mil.. over how many years? LOL decades?
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  12. #42
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    In 1991 Honda brought some minicars to the L.A area for testing:

    Motor of up to 750 CC (less than a liter) turbo producing 65 to 90 Hp, 0 to 62 mph in 9 secs, good for 2 occupants and a little trunk.
    They got 45 to 55 miles a gallon and had small tanks good for 300 miles between fills.

    TAKERS...NONE
    They even said that L.A trafic by 2000 would be horrible and since these microcars were smaller and thinner tha regular cars, that some highways or freeways could have almost 50% more lanes in the same space.

    TAKERS NONE.

    Now SUV nation (the USA) is spending billinons on gas and diesel because, 20 years ago they laughed at the technology availiable then and prefered going with bug useless heavy and fugly TRUKS disguised as mom mobiles for insecure dolts who want to entertain the idea of being single while taking the meat puppets to the baseball game.

    I have 2 cars a Sports coupe that wastes energy and gas like crazy but i use it just for days with no big traffic and such, and I have a small 4 cilinder 1600 CC that makes 37 mpg in the city and 44 in highway for everyday use. I dont complain gas is expensive but if you have one big truck YOU ARE GUILTY OF MAKING GAS EXPENSIVE. live with it.

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    The whole 'car culture' has to change before we see new technologies being developed due to customer demand. Electric cars and small 1600cc runabouts are just not 'cool'. A car is a status symbol, not a means of transport to get from A to B as cheaply and efficiently as possible, and until people change their thinking this debate will continue.

    Truckies here are whinging about the price of fuel and they have a point. Australia is a big country with isolated cities and towns and moving goods around is expensive but that's mainly because our rail infrastructure is almost non-existant (you don't need trains when you have cheap gas, right?) to it's trucks or nothing.

    My BIL is an Alberta oil man. I will ask him about the cost and viability of oil sand and other alternatives.
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    Right now I waiting for VW to begin selling the JEtta wagon in diesel.

    It gets 50 to 60 a gallon on the highway. and it carries the same as a small-mid SUV, BUT EVERYONE told me ARE YOU NUTS, thats a mom mobile, who cares when it costs 1.30 a gallon (diesel in Mexico Vs 3.45 a gallon of premium) it makes sense...
    Id never change my Small peugeot 206

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    the area in ANWAR were drilling can be done is a flat barren area- not a beautiful spot

    americans need to start doing a few things

    1 drive the speed limit
    2 start buying hybrids
    3 buy cars with better gas milage
    4 take part in a national "don't buy gas one day a week"
    bill o'reilly has suggested this great ideal on his show for over a year

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