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Thread: White House abandons any public option, caves to Joe Lieberman. What fucking losers.

  1. #16
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    He's not weak and manipulated, he's doing exactly what he wants.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  2. #17
    Elite Member WhoAmI's Avatar
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    It's called medicair/medicade, on top of what government employees get, on top of VETERANS health care. So don't give me that "won't work here" crap.
    Government employees don't get any special kind of health care. They get the same kind of plans that people who work for private businesses get--a plan where you pay part of the premium and the employer (in this case the government) pays for the rest. The employee chooses if they want a plan like Blue Cross or an HMO and the premium cost depends on that. In my area, it's about $150 a month out-of-pocket for one person, not including doctor visit co-pays, prescriptions, and some tests. That's pretty cheap, but it's certainly not free health care provided by the government to government workers, and it's not government-run in any sense of the word. The providers are all for-profit companies like Blue Cross, Kaiser Permanente, etc.

    I think the military are the only ones who get free care, and trust me, like McJag says, it's some of the worst health care in the first world, speaking from personal experience.

  3. #18
    A*O
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    Hmmmmmmmm maybe the fundies are right and he is the Antichrist after all. OMG it's the End of Days!!!!! run away, run away...
    If all the women in this place were laid end to end, I wouldn’t be surprised - Dorothy Parker

  4. #19
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Funny, vet care seems to run in the 90% satisfied region in polls. As for the rest, it's subsidized to the point of being cheap which THIS horrid bill wont even do.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Elite Member Mr. Authority's Avatar
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    There is a deeply ingrained resistance against "taxes" in the US and until people can move past that and see that the reality of a proper public healthcare system isn't such a terrible thing the insurance companies are going to play on it.
    The thing about the resistance of paying taxes here in the States, is that the people who say such things believe that anything "public" will be sub-par to private counterparts. That and the right-wing mantra of anything public being associated with welfare for "those people", I'm surprised that the insurance companies are playing up to that. If you ask a stupid taxpayer, they'll say "I don't want my tax money going to some socialist program for poor lazy folks!", that's what I think the lobbysist are getting their bullshit from. Stupid = stupid and were paying for it. *sigh*

  6. #21
    A*O
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    I'm sure you are right. In the UK and Oz where public healthcare has been available for decades, everyone pays for it and everyone has access to it even though some choose to pay extra for private cover too. There's absolutely no "shame" in using the public health system even though it's not always perfect and nobody is judged for it. I know wealthy people who don't have any private cover on principle, and people who work two jobs to pay for private insurance. I think this two-tier system is by far the best compromise for both ends of the political spectrum yet there still seems to be so much fear and suspicion about it in the US. Or is it perhaps the fact that many people fear change, period?
    If all the women in this place were laid end to end, I wouldn’t be surprised - Dorothy Parker

  7. #22
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Joe Lieberman sort of apologizes for being a loser, but not really.. and with a very telling admission from Russ Feingold about the whole debacle:

    Sen. Joe Lieberman (Conn.) told Democratic colleagues at a White House meeting that he regretted the tension he’d created within the conference during the healthcare debate.

    Lieberman, a Democrat-turned-Independent who still caucuses with his former party, stopped short of apologizing.

    “I just said I know it’s been difficult for people and I regretted it, it’s been difficult for all of us,” Lieberman said.
    Earlier in the day, Lieberman said he was likely to support the legislation now that Democratic leaders had agreed to accept his demands and remove a proposal that would have allowed those between the ages of 55 and 64 to buy into Medicare. The buy-in was offered as an alternative to the government-run health insurance proposal Lieberman and other centrists strongly oppose.

    Liberals have blamed Lieberman, some publicly and many privately, for forcing Reid to drop the public option, which for many liberals had been a crucial piece of reform.

    But most Democratic senators have been careful not to criticize the lawmaker, whose support is necessary to reach the 60 votes Democrats need to pass the bill.

    Sen. Russ Feingold (D-Wis.), among the most vocal supporters of the public option, said it would be unfair to blame Lieberman for its apparent demise. Feingold said that responsibility ultimately rests with President Barack Obama and he could have insisted on a higher standard for the legislation.

    “This bill appears to be legislation that the president wanted in the first place, so I don’t think focusing it on Lieberman really hits the truth,” said Feingold. “I think they could have been higher. I certainly think a stronger bill would have been better in every respect.”

    But Feingold added there are “obviously good things in the bill” and focusing on an individual member is not an “accurate portrayal of what happened.”

    This is not the first time Lieberman has expressed “regret” for creating a stir by taking a controversial position against his Democratic colleagues.

    Lieberman backed Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.) in the 2008 presidential election and offended many in his party by speaking at the Republican National Convention. After Obama won the election, Democrats considered stripping Lieberman of his Homeland Security and Governmental Affairs Committee chairmanship.

    But Obama and Reid persuaded Democrats to reject stiff punishment, Democrats voted to let Lieberman stay on as chairman and Lieberman held a news conference during which he expressed some regrets.

    “There are other statements that I made that I wish I had made more clearly,” Lieberman told reporters after the Nov. 18, 2008, meeting in which Democrats voted to let him keep the gavel. “And there are some I made that I wish I had not made at all. Obviously, in the heat of campaigns, that happens to all of us. But I regret that, and now is time to move on.”

    On Tuesday, Obama once again helped smooth over hard feelings between Lieberman and liberal Democrats, this time over the president’s top domestic initiative.

    At one point in what was at times a tense meeting, Sen. Sherrod Brown (D-Ohio) told Lieberman how difficult it had been for him to watch liberals lose ground in the healthcare negotiations.

    Lieberman remarked that the past few weeks hadn’t been much fun for him. Brown said he hadn’t had much fun either.

    And, according to Lieberman, Obama then said, “Why don’t we all start having some fun and pass the bill?”

    Senate Democrats described the president as upbeat even though some of the lawmakers were visibly angry and a few complained about the loss of the public option and the Medicare buy-in.

    Obama stressed what he considered the positive aspects of the legislation, such as subsidies to help expand health insurance coverage to more than 30 million uninsured Americans.

    “The president pointed out the historic achievement of this,” said a Senate Democrat who attended the meeting. “He said this is a historic event and we need to get it done. The president acknowledged we may not like this, and we may not like that, but that there will be technical corrections and cleanup bills. But if this fails, that’s it.” (yeah, nevermind if it's a piece of shit that forces people to buy insurance they can't afford.. all that matters is that YOU get something passed, isn't it you fuckwit.)

    At the White House meeting, Lieberman told colleagues the health bill still contains provisions that he dislikes, but that on balance he thinks it will do much to help people.

    One senior Democrat in the meeting interpreted Lieberman’s comments as an apology, although Lieberman did not actually say “sorry.”

    “I don’t remember his exact words, but I took it as an apology,” said a Democratic lawmaker.

    Lieberman sought to dispel that interpretation

    “No,” he said. “I said, ‘I know that it’s been difficult, but this is the nature of the process and you have to give and take.’ ”

    Lieberman noted that if Democrats controlled only 59 or 55 Senate seats, they would have had to work even harder to muster 60 votes for the health bill.

    Lieberman also pointed out Tuesday that he wasn’t alone in raising concerns about the Medicare buy-in proposal. During a news conference earlier in the day, Lieberman said that nearly a dozen centrist Democrats informed Reid that they had concerns, too.
    Sen. Chris Dodd (D-Conn.), a principle negotiator in the healthcare talks, agreed that other Democrats raised the same concerns as Lieberman about the Medicare buy-in proposal.

    But Lieberman became the most high-profile opponent of the provision when he told Reid that he would vote with Republicans to filibuster the bill unless Reid jettisoned it.

    During a Monday evening meeting, Reid told colleagues he would drop the provision, as well as the public option, from the bill. Lieberman did not speak at that meeting, colleagues said.

    On Tuesday, Lieberman told reporters he is now inclined to vote for the legislation.

    “I’m getting to the position where I can say what I wanted to say all along, that I’m ready to vote for healthcare reform,” he said.

    Lieberman expresses regret to colleagues over healthcare tension - TheHill.com
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  8. #23
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    “The president pointed out the historic achievement of this,” said a Senate Democrat who attended the meeting. “He said this is a historic event and we need to get it done. The president acknowledged we may not like this, and we may not like that, but that there will be technical corrections and cleanup bills. But if this fails, that’s it.” (yeah, nevermind if it's a piece of shit that forces people to buy insurance they can't afford.. all that matters is that YOU get something passed, isn't it you fuckwit.)

  9. #24
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    piece of shit that forces people to buy insurance they can't afford
    And THAT is what I am most worried about...and the insurance companies can charge whatever they want and we have to pay it. I'm really worried.

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