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Thread: "USA bankrupt." - US central bank

  1. #16
    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
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    Default Re: "USA bankrupt." - US central bank

    Quote Originally Posted by Delphinium
    I think the current welfare system/idea is a bloated,monstrous mess. It does nothing to teach/encourage/empower it's recipients.

    I have no problem giving people who need it assistance, BUT in exchange for the weekly or monthly check, they should be required to get up out of bed, off the couch, and either go to work doing some type of public service (plenty of graveyards that need mowing, streets/sidewalks need trash picked up, highway roadsides need tending) for 8 hours 5 days a week like most people (how else do you learn to work? and get the self-discipline to show up for work?) OR they should have to attend school FULL TIME 5 days a week, pass their classes and show progress!

    Also, it should be tied directly to drug testing. If you are an alcoholic, drug addict, etc. you should immediately lose all benefits.

    Why should society pay for your crack?

    Anyhow, public housing should be maintained NOT by paid personnel but by the tenants themselves. A tenant should be legally required to mow the lawn, do painting, clean-up etc. in order to continue to receive benefits. And of course, they should sign a waiver against "job injury" in order to live there. *you play you pay*.

    And a person who becomes pregnant should not be rewarded with more money. Instead that should start the clock ticking on the end of the benefit. you got 3 years, you better figure it out.

    And the 5 year benefit period should be once in a lifetime. no do-overs.
    Although I agree somwhat..in that there needs to be reform..I think you have a lack of understanding about addiction, public housing and defensible space theory, fairness in employment and workers compensation, and the actual reality of peoples lives, which are not constructed in absolutes but are in shades of gray.Also I hope that you would include drug and alcohol addiction treatment as nobody just wakes up and decides that they are going to be a junkie or drunk as a career move. For someone who values the sanctity of life so much you sure seem to be awfuly judgemental about certain groups. These people are sick people, not bad people.

    Quote Originally Posted by SVZ
    Tax in Canada is 25% for the rich It goes from like.. 22% to 25%
    Amen and Hallelujah to that. I love the title to this thread..all I am really doing in my personal life financially is keeping step with my country!

    Quote Originally Posted by UndercoverGator
    There needs to be mandatory parenting classes and classes on life skills as well. I was always appalled when I was a DSS worker at the number of folks without any real idea how to parent or do simple every day things you and I take for granted.
    I agree with this. There is a large group of people who have never been taught basic living skills and have no idea of how to manage money, hold a job, or even cook a basic semi-healthy meal. And of course if they do not have these skills then who will teach these skills to their children?
    Last edited by Sojiita; July 16th, 2006 at 07:31 AM.

  2. #17
    Hit By Ban Bus! UndercoverGator's Avatar
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    Default Re: "USA bankrupt." - US central bank

    .Also I hope that you would include drug and alcohol addiction treatment as nobody just wakes up and decides that they are going to be a junkie or drunk as a career move. For someone who values the sanctity of life so much you sure seem to be awfuly judgemental about certain groups. These people are sick people, not bad people.
    Treatment yes, but I'm beginning to believe that we should have no part in allowing those addicted to use the social support services to keep on supporting themselves while they spend all their time chasing their addiction full force. I'm beginning to believe that addiction to drugs/alcohol is killing off this country in ways I'd not seen before. At the clinic we spend more time fending off the requests of drugs addicts living on welfare for class 4 narcotics than many other things. One of the ladies we deal with daily calls in demanding an apointment, crying about her headaches, begging for narcotic prescriptions. She is on SSI for "migraines" when the truth of the matter is she's addicted to Oxycodone. She refuses to admit she has a problem even though our doctors refuse to see her and she's on the 'no narcotics' list at all the local ERs. Why should I work my ass off while she sits around swilling Oxys on my dime?

    Supporting addicts must be tied to them fully cooperating with rehab. Free rides on the government while they get high should be immediately stopped.

  3. #18
    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
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    Default Re: "USA bankrupt." - US central bank

    Quote Originally Posted by UndercoverGator
    Treatment yes, but I'm beginning to believe that we should have no part in allowing those addicted to use the social support services to keep on supporting themselves while they spend all their time chasing their addiction full force. I'm beginning to believe that addiction to drugs/alcohol is killing off this country in ways I'd not seen before. At the clinic we spend more time fending off the requests of drugs addicts living on welfare for class 4 narcotics than many other things. One of the ladies we deal with daily calls in demanding an apointment, crying about her headaches, begging for narcotic prescriptions. She is on SSI for "migraines" when the truth of the matter is she's addicted to Oxycodone. She refuses to admit she has a problem even though our doctors refuse to see her and she's on the 'no narcotics' list at all the local ERs. Why should I work my ass off while she sits around swilling Oxys on my dime?

    Supporting addicts must be tied to them fully cooperating with rehab. Free rides on the government while they get high should be immediately stopped.
    Agreed in that they need to be in a rehab program and need to be showing at least some kind of attempt to remain clean. Addiction is a two step forwards one step back thing..so people will screw up..but within reason they should be trying to stay clean and sober and definetely be in a program and making some kind of progress. I should have stated that more clearly. And I hate how these people make it harder on everyone who has legitimate needs for certain medications( like Sudafed, pain killers, etc.)

    Also we need to figure out WHY so many people are turning to drugs/alcohol..and try to alleviate some of the underlying causes...if possible.

  4. #19
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    Default Re: "USA bankrupt." - US central bank

    And I hate how these people make it harder on everyone who has legitimate needs for certain medications( like Sudafed, pain killers, etc.)
    They not only make it harder for you and I to legitimately get medicines they cost the tax payer and overtax the already severely burdened health care system.

  5. #20
    Hit By Ban Bus! WickedHo's Avatar
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    Default Re: "USA bankrupt." - US central bank

    Quote Originally Posted by Sojiita
    Also we need to figure out WHY so many people are turning to drugs/alcohol..and try to alleviate some of the underlying causes...if possible.
    I completely agree with all of your posts, Sojiita. So profound. I like it when I encounter other people who think exactly the way I do. Let's you, me and Gator overthrow the gov'mint sometime next Thursday. Are you free? Gator, are you available?

    Oh, and regarding the part I quoted, Sojiita: YES!!!! Everything that's wrong with our country (the addictions, the crime, the overspending, the corruption) is simply a manifestation of an underlying, complex problem. Those are the symptoms, not the disease itself. What we need is a diagnosis, followed by treatment and preventative care. We should treat America like it's got cancer, because it does.

  6. #21
    Gold Member Delphinium's Avatar
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    Default Re: "USA bankrupt." - US central bank

    Quote Originally Posted by UndercoverGator
    Treatment yes, but I'm beginning to believe that we should have no part in allowing those addicted to use the social support services to keep on supporting themselves while they spend all their time chasing their addiction full force. I'm beginning to believe that addiction to drugs/alcohol is killing off this country in ways I'd not seen before. At the clinic we spend more time fending off the requests of drugs addicts living on welfare for class 4 narcotics than many other things. One of the ladies we deal with daily calls in demanding an apointment, crying about her headaches, begging for narcotic prescriptions. She is on SSI for "migraines" when the truth of the matter is she's addicted to Oxycodone. She refuses to admit she has a problem even though our doctors refuse to see her and she's on the 'no narcotics' list at all the local ERs. Why should I work my ass off while she sits around swilling Oxys on my dime?

    Supporting addicts must be tied to them fully cooperating with rehab. Free rides on the government while they get high should be immediately stopped.
    I've too have seen this type of stuff time and time again. I used to feel much more compassion for the addicted, UNTIL I actually started to spend time with them and try to "help" them. About 90% of the time, they really don't want real help, only enabling to help them continue their addiction. And honestly, many of them were very self-centered, whiney types who blamed everyone and everything for their bad behavior except themselves. I got VERY tired of it, and now do not think my hard earned tax dollars should support them.

    If more people with addictions had to stay sober enough to survive, maybe that would motivate them to stop using.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sojiita
    Agreed in that they need to be in a rehab program and need to be showing at least some kind of attempt to remain clean. Addiction is a two step forwards one step back thing..so people will screw up..but within reason they should be trying to stay clean and sober and definetely be in a program and making some kind of progress. I should have stated that more clearly. And I hate how these people make it harder on everyone who has legitimate needs for certain medications( like Sudafed, pain killers, etc.)

    Also we need to figure out WHY so many people are turning to drugs/alcohol..and try to alleviate some of the underlying causes...if possible.
    yep it makes me very mad, some doctors will not write those type of prescriptions no matter what because they are freaked out about the DEA investigating them. So if one of their patients has cancer etc. and really needs it, they have to find another doctor to write the prescription. sad.

  7. #22
    Hit By Ban Bus! WickedHo's Avatar
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    Default Re: "USA bankrupt." - US central bank

    Quote Originally Posted by Delphinium
    If more people with addictions had to stay sober enough to survive, maybe that would motivate them to stop using.
    You simply do not understand the nature of addiction. It's obvious, especially from this last post.

  8. #23
    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
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    Default Re: "USA bankrupt." - US central bank

    Quote Originally Posted by WickedHo
    You simply do not understand the nature of addiction. It's obvious, especially from this last post.
    Alot of people are so broken and damaged by the time they even get addicted to something it is often too late. People use drugs and alcohol for a number of reasons. Many drink or drug to numb themselves at least for a while so they do not feel the pain they have-these people are miserable and are trying to escape the pain. Among some groups it is believed that people actually turn to drug use and addiction to commit 'covert suicide'. People suffering from abuse, poverty, institutional racism, neglect, etc. will subconsciously use drugs and alcohol as a way of ending their lives..not much different than using a gun..just more protracted.

    These problems need to be addressed(when they can be)..we need to work on the problems that bring people to this level. This means improving conditions overall, working to stop institutional racism and offering people access to mental health treatment, alternative living situations where poverty, abuse, or neglect are present, skills training for work and for home living situations(like parenting classes). Alot of this stuff is preventative in nature but costly, but in the long run is much more cost effective than welfare, or institutionalization, or especially prison. *sad sigh* There are real reasons why the poor and minority groups are so hard hit by drug and alcohol addiction. It does not take a rocket scientist to figure it out.
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  9. #24
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: "USA bankrupt." - US central bank

    Eh.. crackheads who don't want help and don't want to get clean, won't. That's pretty much all there is to it.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  10. #25
    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
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    Default Re: "USA bankrupt." - US central bank

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok
    Eh.. crackheads who don't want help and don't want to get clean, won't. That's pretty much all there is to it.
    Are you assuming that all of them do not want help..or are you just referring to some of them..as in the ones who do not want help as opposed to the ones who do?
    Don't slap me, cause I'm not in the mood!

  11. #26
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    Default Re: "USA bankrupt." - US central bank

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok
    Eh.. crackheads who don't want help and don't want to get clean, won't. That's pretty much all there is to it.
    Yeah, but how'd that crackhead get to be a crackhead to begin with? That's what needs to be adderssed, to prevent future crackheads. There are soooo many factors that lead people to drugs: abuse, mental disorders-- self-medication is prevalent among manic/depressives-- etc.

  12. #27
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: "USA bankrupt." - US central bank

    Quote Originally Posted by Sojiita
    Are you assuming that all of them do not want help..or are you just referring to some of them..as in the ones who do not want help as opposed to the ones who do?
    As in the ones who don't want help and don't want to get clean, vs. people who got hooked but want to get clean and have made an effort.

    People who don't want to change never will. Those people are a write off.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  13. #28
    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
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    Default Re: "USA bankrupt." - US central bank

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok
    As in the ones who don't want help and don't want to get clean, vs. people who got hooked but want to get clean and have made an effort.

    People who don't want to change never will. Those people are a write off.
    Agreed. Sad but true.
    Don't slap me, cause I'm not in the mood!

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