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Thread: U.S. Only Industrialized Nation With No Paid Leave For New Parents

  1. #46
    Elite Member CornFlakegrl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    No, you can't use your disability insurance whenever you wish. You have to have a qualified medical condition.

    The statistics I quoted say volumes about the benefits that both employees and businesses derive from the implementation of FMLA. If you have statistics to the contrary, feel free to provide them. If women weren't being unfairly severed from their employment prior to the implementation of FMLA there would have been no impetus to push for it in the first place.
    Well obviously, I meant for a qualifying condition. You didn't seem to understand that disability insurance and FMLA are two different benefits.

    And I disagree that those statistics speak volumes for the reasons I listed above. The "status quo" is lumped with the "improved," so how can you tell if the improvement was significant?

    FMLA offers protection and for that reason it is worth it. But women without FMLA coverage can and do keep their jobs following maternity leave.

  2. #47
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CornFlakegrl View Post
    Well obviously, I meant for a qualifying condition. You didn't seem to understand that disability insurance and FMLA are two different benefits.

    And I disagree that those statistics speak volumes for the reasons I listed above. The "status quo" is lumped with the "improved," so how can you tell if the improvement was significant?
    Sorry, but I showed statistical data on FMLA and its positive benefits. You have shown no such statistics to the contrary. The onus in on you, not me, at this point.

  3. #48
    Silver Member marvel's Avatar
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    My company has NO paid leave and no short term disability. You want up to your 12 weeks off you get it unpaid.
    I actually don't know any women that got paid 100% of their income for a 6 week leave. Some got about 50$ for 6 weeks MAX. But my cousins in Poland who live on a farm and don't make much of course, just enough to live, were given a YEARs paid maternity leave after each child. HMMMMMM.

  4. #49
    Elite Member MontanaMama's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crumpet View Post
    That and a lot of us are sick and damned tired of people claiming to have 'rights' to things just for fucking being born alive. You may wish to argue that 'free' healthcare a year of being paid not to work after you have a kid is a social good that benefits many people but that hardly makes it a 'right'. Show me where in the constitution it says either of these things are a right. The right to pursue happiness doesn't include the right to be provided with everything you want so your life can be cushier while you do. People are so fucking entitled and frankly, I really believe that the more you just give people everything the less they are eventually able to do for themselves. It's just a natural consequence, like having modern transportation and appliances and less physically demanding jobs have had the unintended side effect of creating a lot of out of shape, overweight people. Having calculators and computerized cash registers for so long has had the unintended consequences of creating a whole generation of people who don't know how to count back your change....God help you if the register is out of order and no one has a calculator.

    I realize that I'm in the minority around here on this issue and I really don't mind. But I refuse to jump on the OMG! The government should take care of me from the cradle to the grave (but still stay the fuck out of my business while they're doing it). Why are free healthcare and paid parental leave a right (outside of using your employer short term disability benefits or the Family Leave Act)? People need all kinds of things to survive and even the basics like food, clothing, and shelter aren't provided by the government unless you qualify based on really low income. Why do you have to pay for groceries when you go to the store? Why do you have to pay your rent or mortgage every month? Why should I have to pay to put gas in my car so I can drive to work and earn a taxable income? You NEED food and a place to live more than you need free doctor visits when you get sick but everyone has to pay for those things themselves.

    I'm not expecting to change anyone's mind, I just wanted to say my piece.
    Crumpet, you state your position pretty well. I don't agree with the notion that individuals can be so "me only" in a society, particularly because the ones that scream for autonomy the loudest are the first ones to belly up to the "save me from myself" public tit (see bankers circa 2009). Also, I don't see how an individual can separate out what public services they want to partake in and what is way over the line. I mean, there are roads, schools, fire dept, police, military, etc.

    I think where I get tripped up the most on the healthcare issue is that we have access to great healthcare in this country, but even with insurance, it's prohibitively expensive. I'm a little more on conflicted on the family leave issue. I've never worked anywhere where paid leave is available. The last firm I worked for allowed you to use whatever vacation/personal time you had on the books and then, I think, 2 additional weekd of unpaid time. After that, it was see ya if you didn't come back. This allowed for an absolute maximum of 8 weeks, IF you had been an employee for over 5 years AND you hadn't already used a single day of your annual time. On the other side, it is really difficult for a small business to stay in business when they need to pay employees who are not producing.

    For my own experience, I worked up to about 2 hours before my daughter was born but decided that it was imperitive to be home with my daughter for a year or until she was talking. I was able to pick up a little part-time work here and there, but we cut everything to the bare bones to allow me to do that, unfortunately it put us in a real hole too. It sure would have been nice to have some financial help, but I don't know what the right answer is or where the line is.
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    Hit By Ban Bus! AliceInWonderland's Avatar
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    its not so much about rights vs. something you have to earn to me, but in a nation such as ours (the leader of the free world) we should have the best of things for our citizens and be a leader by example not just force. I think its pretty sick that so many in this nation suffer w/ no basic health care, civil rights for all, etc., its sick and embarrassing and pathetic.


    ~ in California we have paternity leave too I've heard!

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    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AliceInWonderland View Post
    its not so much about rights vs. something you have to earn to me, but in a nation such as ours (the leader of the free world) we should have the best of things for our citizens and be a leader by example not just force. I think its pretty sick that so many in this nation suffer w/ no basic health care, civil rights for all, etc., its sick and embarrassing and pathetic.


    ~ in California we have paternity leave too I've heard!
    We even have that in Texas. But Alice, I can't see you living in a farmhouse in Poland, not even for a year off. Ain't worth it.
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  8. #53
    Gold Member WitchHazelEyed's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crumpet View Post
    That and a lot of us are sick and damned tired of people claiming to have 'rights' to things just for fucking being born alive. You may wish to argue that 'free' healthcare a year of being paid not to work after you have a kid is a social good that benefits many people but that hardly makes it a 'right'. Show me where in the constitution it says either of these things are a right. The right to pursue happiness doesn't include the right to be provided with everything you want so your life can be cushier while you do. People are so fucking entitled and frankly, I really believe that the more you just give people everything the less they are eventually able to do for themselves. It's just a natural consequence, like having modern transportation and appliances and less physically demanding jobs have had the unintended side effect of creating a lot of out of shape, overweight people. Having calculators and computerized cash registers for so long has had the unintended consequences of creating a whole generation of people who don't know how to count back your change....God help you if the register is out of order and no one has a calculator.

    I realize that I'm in the minority around here on this issue and I really don't mind. But I refuse to jump on the OMG! The government should take care of me from the cradle to the grave (but still stay the fuck out of my business while they're doing it). Why are free healthcare and paid parental leave a right (outside of using your employer short term disability benefits or the Family Leave Act)? People need all kinds of things to survive and even the basics like food, clothing, and shelter aren't provided by the government unless you qualify based on really low income. Why do you have to pay for groceries when you go to the store? Why do you have to pay your rent or mortgage every month? Why should I have to pay to put gas in my car so I can drive to work and earn a taxable income? You NEED food and a place to live more than you need free doctor visits when you get sick but everyone has to pay for those things themselves.

    I'm not expecting to change anyone's mind, I just wanted to say my piece.

    Um, I totally freaking agree. It is my number one most unpopular opinion but one formed by years of watching people expect everyone to help them when they refuse to get off their asses and help themselves.
    Now logic is a wonderful thing but it has, as the processes of evolution discovered, certain drawbacks. Anything that thinks logically can be fooled by something else which thinks at least as logically as it does. - Douglas Adams

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    This is a touchy subject. I have been on both sides of the coin, having to cover the workload of one who had a baby. I resented it totally. I didn't get a pay increase for the added work, however, the new mom received her pay for 12 weeks. This was a private company. I was salary and therefore many overtime hours without additional pay. That totally sucked. When new mom returned to work, I didn't even say hi to her. It gets better. Six months later this same chic is pregnant again. Her statement, oh why not I can get paid, stay home, and not have to worry. Talk about abuse.


    Fast forward a few years. We adopted a sibling group of three. I was offered FMLA without pay, except what leave I had accrued. At this time I was working for DOE. I didn't take a day.

    Ok backstepping now. My mom went back to work after each birth at two weeks. There are zero bonding issues. I am totally tight with my mom and dad and at the time I was born my father was working out of state.

    So, I have to step in Crumpet's Corner. Having a child is a choice, just like me adopting was a choice. One I have never regretted. I cannot imagine my life without them, and I didn't force anyone to do my job so I could learn to parent by the seat of my pants. When our children arrived they were 5, 3, and 1. Yes, I was overwhelmed, sometimes I thought I was going to drop. But I didn't. The hubby did more than his part.

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    Hit By Ban Bus! AliceInWonderland's Avatar
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    yeah and none of us would even be here if someone hadn't have brought us into the world.

    people, usually men w/ problems towards women in the workplace, seem to forget this!

    and why would you want to make a child of this country suffer? its inhumane.

  11. #56
    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
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    ^^Alice, you hardly make a case that children 'suffer' because their mothers go back to work or because their moms don't get paid full salary to stay home for a year. The word 'suffer' is certainly being overused here.
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    i was talking about health care, which is one of my examples of this country being behind the times here.

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    You may wish to argue that 'free' healthcare a year of being paid not to work after you have a kid is a social good that benefits many people but that hardly makes it a 'right'. Show me where in the constitution it says either of these things are a right.
    A power grid is not a right

    Highways are not a right

    Indoor plumbing is not a right

    Public education is not a right

    A military is not a right

    Garbage pickup is not a right

    Social programs are not a right

    All these things benefit society, all of these things you use every day, all of these things you pay into with taxes and not one of them is a right guaranteed by the constitution.

    When you start complaining about these, start generating your own power, forging and building your own plumbing hookups, dispose of your own garbage, take yourself off every possible social program, homeschool your children, and take up arms to defend yourself.. only then can you complain about fucking maternity leave.

    Till then, you're a ridiculous hypocrite with an imaginary line in the sand where you'll use THOUSANDS of things every day that aren't rights, but get in a huff about 1 other item that isn't a right either all because you have some enormous anti-child chip on your shoulder... and that's coming from someone who hates kids.

    Really. It's so stupid.
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    ^^^
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