Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 68

Thread: U.S. Only Industrialized Nation With No Paid Leave For New Parents

  1. #16
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Wherever my kids are
    Posts
    34,423

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by McJag View Post
    Have you ever know someone in that position?
    Yes, I have. However, I think the better metric would be some kind of statistics that would show what percentage of the American workforce is not eligible for FMLA because of business size. I remember hearing somewhere that 80% of Americans work for small businesses - which typically have a small workforce.

    Quote Originally Posted by CornFlakegrl View Post
    I realize that but not being required to follow FMLA doesn't equal not offering short term disability insurance.

    I realize it does happen. Service industry types like waitresses rarely get benefits and most restaurants fall under the small business heading.

    I'm just saying that implying no universal benefit means we all go hungry/broke/homeless when we have our babies is not accurate.
    How would you be able to use your short-term disability if you weren't allowed to go on FMLA?

  2. #17
    fgg
    fgg is offline
    Elite Member fgg's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Posts
    34,533

    Default

    i have a friend who works for a large company that does not have maternity leave. one of his fellow attorneys had to take the unpaid leave.

  3. #18
    Elite Member CornFlakegrl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Hanging with the raisin girls
    Posts
    15,036

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    How would you be able to use your short-term disability if you weren't allowed to go on FMLA?
    All FMLA does is protect you from the jackoff companies that would fire a pregnant or "on maternity leave" employee. That is not every or even the majority of employers.

    Pre-FMLA many, many women went on leave and returned to their jobs. Many women today, in small business environments, do the same.

  4. #19
    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    If I was up your ass you'd know where I am!
    Posts
    7,751

    Default

    [quote=McJag;2162365]Butt! If you think most emplyees are going to pick up the slack for a whole year, you are bonkers! I would have hated them myself! Companies would quit hiring woman under 50. Some of the best brains would be jobless. Think-a woman with 4 kids would take 4 years out of her career. A lot of women were happy to get back to work just to rest! That is never going to work here, not if we want to keep up with men.

    Butt! Put down that wine right now! You are going to be sick tomorrow!

    Crumpet! You should go smoke a cigarette after that one![/quote]


    Too bad I gave them up....maybe I should start again!

    In any event, hypothetically I can see the value of having a system like Sweden where some men are forced to take paternity leave so that the burden of child care and being out of work doesn't fall exclusively on the woman. Having women take leave while men don't perpetuates two cycles: one, that women get paid less because ultimately they work less and get out of the job loop, finding it harder to reenter the workforce; secondly it perpetuates the notion that caring for children is 'womens work' and keeps women being disproportionately in the domestic sphere if they have kids despite what theri career goals might be. The cycle continues again when the copule decides that the one who earns less should be the one to stay home, and the lower earner is almost always a woman (funny how that works).

    However, I also see that if these policies were instituted here it would make any female under 50 a paraiah because companies would have to pay her not to work while paying someone else to do her job. I'm a woman and I wouldn't want to hire any woman of childbearing age if it means it will hurt my business financially. As a colleague I sure as fuck don't want to do my job and yours while you take a year off to play house. I'm sorry, but I don't think it is my responsibility to make sure your life is positioned so you can pursue everything you want. Also, when a couple of singletons get together to have a family, why is it already the case that the man is likely to be a higher earner? Honestly I wish more higher earning women would be willing to give blue collar guys a chance instead of always just trying to get the guy with the MBA who makes 6 figures which always places them lower on the totem pole in the relationship when it comes to economics. This kind of policy here would make all women out to be too high risk since you never know who is going to get knocked up. Not to mention that hypothetically a woman could keep getting paid for not working indefinately depending on how many children she has. I'd like to see more women grow a pair and demand that their husbands be family friendly instead of looking to the government to equalize all of these responsibilities. Quit marrying jerks who don't pull their weight and if he changes into a jerk after you have kids kick his ass to the curb. Stop doing all the fucking housework when you get home, all the while complaining about how you just have to do everythiiiing. I don't think your boss needs to make up for the fact that you married a self centered asswipe who won't do his share of child care and housework when you both work. Quit being a martyr about it.
    Only the good die young.........................
    bitches like me live forever!!!!!!!!!!!!

  5. #20
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Wherever my kids are
    Posts
    34,423

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CornFlakegrl View Post
    All FMLA does is protect you from the jackoff companies that would fire a pregnant or "on maternity leave" employee. That is not every or even the majority of employers.

    Pre-FMLA many, many women went on leave and returned to their jobs. Many women today, in small business environments, do the same.
    I'm not sure how that answers my question. If your company does not grant FMLA, you can't use your short-term disability insurance - right?

    FMLA does more than protect you from jackoff companies -- it resulted in a sea-change in how companies deal with people who become pregnant, or who have family members with illnesses. Pre FMLA, many women went on maternity leave and were not able to get their jobs back.

    Some statistics:

    How has FMLA impacted employers?
    • 98% of eligible employees return to work for their same employer after returning from FMLA covered leave.
    • 89% of covered businesses report that FMLA has a neutral or positive impact on employee morale.
    • In 84% of covered businesses, FMLA has had either a neutral or positive effect on employee productivity.
    • In 90% of covered businesses, FMLA has had either a neutral or positive effect on business profitability.
    • In 90% of covered businesses, FMLA has had either a neutral or positive impact on business growth.
    • 89% of covered businesses report either no increase or only a small increase in administrative costs because of FMLA.
    • 89% of covered businesses report either no increase or only a small increase in the cost of continuing benefits like employee health plans during employee leave under FMLA.
    • 93% of covered businesses report either no increase or a small increase in hiring and training costs due to FMLA.
    All above information is taken from the U.S. Department of Labor’s 2000 report Balancing the Needs of Families and Employers: Family and Medical Leave Surveys 2000 Update,

  6. #21
    Friend of Gossip Rocks! buttmunch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Uranus
    Posts
    31,884

    Default

    But you have to understand how it is in countries where it actually works. When someone takes up a job that is left empty due to parental leave they know that it's temporary and they are most likely there to get experience and when that temporary job s over they know that they will move on. Funny enough, if they do a good job, they tend to find another job in the company or in a similar company. You can't penalize people (man or woman) for having a baby. It's part of life and since most first world economies are run on the middle class having two incomes you've got to make way for that.
    'Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.' Ben Franklin

    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
    --Sinclair Lewis

  7. #22
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In WhoreLand fucking your MOM
    Posts
    55,359

    Default

    Yeah, in civilized places they have things called "temps" that do 6 or 8 month "contracts" or even up to a full "year".. at the end of that they either go away, or are hired if they're found valuable.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  8. #23
    Friend of Gossip Rocks! buttmunch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Uranus
    Posts
    31,884

    Default

    Grimm, you're making to much sense. Young people or anyone looking for a job filling in during parental leave? Amd making theselves indespensable? How wrong!
    'Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.' Ben Franklin

    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
    --Sinclair Lewis

  9. #24
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In WhoreLand fucking your MOM
    Posts
    55,359

    Default

    It could never work! A preposterous concept, I know.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  10. #25
    Elite Member CornFlakegrl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Hanging with the raisin girls
    Posts
    15,036

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    I'm not sure how that answers my question. If your company does not grant FMLA, you can't use your short-term disability insurance - right?

    FMLA does more than protect you from jackoff companies -- it resulted in a sea-change in how companies deal with people who become pregnant, or who have family members with illnesses. Pre FMLA, many women went on maternity leave and were not able to get their jobs back.

    Some statistics:

    How has FMLA impacted employers?
    • 98% of eligible employees return to work for their same employer after returning from FMLA covered leave.
    • 89% of covered businesses report that FMLA has a neutral or positive impact on employee morale.
    • In 84% of covered businesses, FMLA has had either a neutral or positive effect on employee productivity.
    • In 90% of covered businesses, FMLA has had either a neutral or positive effect on business profitability.
    • In 90% of covered businesses, FMLA has had either a neutral or positive impact on business growth.
    • 89% of covered businesses report either no increase or only a small increase in administrative costs because of FMLA.
    • 89% of covered businesses report either no increase or only a small increase in the cost of continuing benefits like employee health plans during employee leave under FMLA.
    • 93% of covered businesses report either no increase or a small increase in hiring and training costs due to FMLA.
    All above information is taken from the U.S. Department of Labor’s 2000 report Balancing the Needs of Families and Employers: Family and Medical Leave Surveys 2000 Update,
    No, you absolutely can use your short term disability. That's what it is there for. FMLA means they can't decide to eliminate your position while you're gone or fire you. It is protection of the job, not permission to use you're disability insurance. You can use that whenever you wish.

    And the statistics you quoted don't change my argument. I'd be more curious to see what % of new mothers lost their jobs on maternity leave before implementing FMLA. Nothing there says how many jobs were saved due to FMLA.

    Also, I'd like to see the numbers without the "neutral impact." Don't you think if FMLA had had a significant impact in saving jobs, the numbers would be reported sans the "no effect' numbers? I suspect it is because the # of women getting fired while on maternity leave are not as startling as one thinks.

    One other point -- you call FMLA a sea change but how is that possible when it doesn't cover small business employees? They represent anywhere from 50-80% of the workforce yet they aren't covered under this protection? But they have babies, and take leaves, and if they are getting fired in droves because of it, they are awfully quiet.

    I'm not anti-FMLA btw, I used it when on maternity leave. What I'm saying is that many women, without it, use their disability and keep their jobs.
    Last edited by CornFlakegrl; June 17th, 2010 at 08:04 PM.

  11. #26
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Wherever my kids are
    Posts
    34,423

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by CornFlakegrl View Post
    No, you absolutely can use your short term disability. That's what it is there for. FMLA means they can't decide to eliminate your position while you're gone or fire you. It is protection of the job, not permission to use you're disability insurance. You can use that whenever you wish.
    No, you can't use your disability insurance whenever you wish. You have to have a qualified medical condition.

    The statistics I quoted say volumes about the benefits that both employees and businesses derive from the implementation of FMLA. If you have statistics to the contrary, feel free to provide them. If women weren't being unfairly severed from their employment prior to the implementation of FMLA there would have been no impetus to push for it in the first place.

  12. #27
    Elite Member qwerty's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    6,901

    Default

    Clearly, an anomaly but my brother-in-law got six weeks paid paternity leave twice - and this was from a high flying Wall Street job.

  13. #28
    Elite Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Posts
    3,807

    Default

    If something like that isn't mandatory, then it becomes a benefit or perk that some companies offer while others do not.

    People in the upper echelon may get this perk while others do not. Depending on how you look at it, you might think that these people deserve it based on educational level, hard work, etc. to get to that position.

    Six weeks at best will get you back in functional shape and give you a chance to get your childcare arrangements sorted out. It's not much time to bond with your baby.

    As for whether a paid maternity leave as they offer in, say, Scandinavian countries, is good for society as well as individuals, you'd have to look at the data, and I can't be arsed.

    BUT in response to your post, Crumpet, I think countries that have paid leave do so not to be 'cushy' to the individual, but because they think it benefits society overall.

  14. #29
    Friend of Gossip Rocks! buttmunch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Uranus
    Posts
    31,884

    Default

    Paid maternity leave definitely benefits society. It works very well in Scandinavia. People go on leave for six months or a year (depending on how the parents split the time) and in that time someone takes your position, gets experience, sometimes becomes valuable to the company, even if they don't they have a year at a job and it helps them get other positions. Parents get time at home with the kid, the kid isn't schlepped off to childcare before it's even aware it's alive, parents can continue with their careers-both men and women...it's all good.
    'Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.' Ben Franklin

    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
    --Sinclair Lewis

  15. #30
    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    If I was up your ass you'd know where I am!
    Posts
    7,751

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by buttmunch View Post
    Grimm, you're making to much sense. Young people or anyone looking for a job filling in during parental leave? Amd making theselves indespensable? How wrong!
    Unless the temps are working for free, then the company is still paying you to be on leave and for someone else to do your job when and if you decide to come back. Also, I don't get all this 'bond with your baby' stuff. My Mom was working from home three days after she had me and went to work less than 2 weeks after that...I stayed with a family friend who was my day care provider. I guess I just don't see how my mother and I failed to bond and I certainly never thought the other lady was my mom. I guess more old school folks just raised their kids, did what they had to do, and didn't put so much energy intop constantly thinking about how haaaard everything is. From my experience most of them had relationships with their kids that are just as good as the ones that all these stay at home moms have with theirs. I think modern culture really tends to overpathologize every little thing.

    Y'all can go ahead and rip me up now, I'm going on vacation!!!!! See ya week after next.
    Only the good die young.........................
    bitches like me live forever!!!!!!!!!!!!

Page 2 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 10
    Last Post: March 16th, 2010, 05:35 PM
  2. LEAVE RUSH LIMBAUGH ALONE!! just leave him alone!!! *cry*
    By Grimmlok in forum U.S. Politics and Issues
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: March 12th, 2009, 12:48 PM
  3. Kid Nation
    By silver024 in forum Television and Movies
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: September 24th, 2007, 06:56 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •