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Thread: U.S. illegal immigrants 'self deport' as woes mount

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sojiita View Post
    tee-ha-ha..use the damn multiquote button next to the right of the quote button and then hit 'post'!!!
    I did on the last post. See? *pointing*

    I cannot really see deportation working. Can you imagine really cracking down on that and starting mass deportations? It would be that they would be 'hunted' people. Like the Jews in Europe under the Nazi's. Can you imagine finding some journal of some little ten year old girl...and it reads like the fucking Diary of Anne Frank? Of being 'hunted' for deportation? I may not know what this nation is all about ...but I know what it is NOT about..and that is it!!
    Don't you think that's a tad melodramatic?

    Quote Originally Posted by AliceInWonderland View Post
    that is an untrue statement. it doesn't even make sense!
    LOL...what about it is untrue? The amnesty in 1986, also referred to as the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986:

    Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    ...or, the fact that we do indeed have more illegals here now than what were given amnesty under the provisions of the Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986?

    Immigration Reform and Control Act of 1986 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    I know you're desperate to prove me wrong, but I'm going to help you anyway. Here's a hint: use facts.

  2. #152
    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
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    ^^ yes it was a liittle melodramatic. But I think I made a point.

    *And yay! you multi-quoted! It took me forever to learn it. The mods will be pleased.
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  3. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sojiita View Post
    ^^ yes it was a liittle melodramatic. But I think I made a point.
    Sorry, but I disagree. You can't compare deporting illegals who came here voluntarily to the horror of the Holocaust. I lost relatives in the Holocaust and I find the comparison personally offensive. They didn't choose to be Jews, they didn't choose where they were born, and they sure as hell couldn't leave once things started to get bad. They were helplessly rounded up and gassed.

    Illegals, on the other hand, are free to leave whenever they please. Nobody is going to be herding them into a gas chamber or lining them up, forcing them to dig their own graves, then shooting them. Nothing personal, but I think the comparison is ridiculous and pointless not to mention offensive. (And melodramatic.)

  4. #154
    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tee-ha-ha View Post
    Sorry, but I disagree. You can't compare deporting illegals who came here voluntarily to the horror of the Holocaust. I lost relatives in the Holocaust and I find the comparison personally offensive. They didn't choose to be Jews, they didn't choose where they were born, and they sure as hell couldn't leave once things started to get bad. They were helplessly rounded up and gassed.

    Illegals, on the other hand, are free to leave whenever they please. Nobody is going to be herding them into a gas chamber or lining them up, forcing them to dig their own graves, then shooting them. Nothing personal, but I think the comparison is ridiculous and pointless not to mention offensive. (And melodramatic.)
    I compared the 'rounding up and deportation' parts, not the rest..and I stand by THAT ASPECT of the comparsion. Do not make my comparison something it was not.

    And I disagree in that what I cited was how CHILDREN would be affected-nothing voluntary there, no choice there.

    And I find how you have tried to twist my comparison into something it was not , personally offensive.

    If you do not like it, too damn bad. And the nothing personal part was pure bullshit. Do not go around shitting and then telling everyone it smells like roses. If it was not personal you damn well could AND would have chosen a better way(and have used less inflammatory words) of saying what you did-than you did. Have a little intellectual honesty if nothing else please.
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  5. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sojiita View Post
    I compared the 'rounding up and deportation' parts, not the rest..and I stand by THAT ASPECT of the comparsion. Do not make my comparison something it was not.
    Again, I fail to see how the US enforcing its laws is in any way consistent with the tactics of the Gestapo.

    And I disagree in that what I cited was how CHILDREN would be affected-nothing voluntary there, no choice there.
    Sure there was. The parents could have not come here in the first place. They are the ones risking their childrens' futures by dropping anchors here in the first place. I'm more concerned about American children and children whose parents have the legal right to stay here.

    And I find how you have tried to twist my comparison into something it was not , personally offensive.
    I find that melodramatic.

    If you do not like it, too damn bad. And the nothing personal part was pure bullshit. Do not go around shitting and then telling everyone it smells like roses. If it was not personal you damn well could AND would have chosen a better way(and have used less inflammatory words) of saying what you did-than you did. Have a little intellectual honesty if nothing else please.

    And you feel that comparing the US enforcing its laws to the roundup of millions of innocent victims by the Gestapo is intellectually honest? And you think I'm full of shit?

  6. #156
    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tee-ha-ha View Post
    Again, I fail to see how the US enforcing its laws is in any way consistent with the tactics of the Gestapo.

    And they were just enforcing their 'twisted' laws as well..in their eyes. How many German soldiers used the 'just following orders' excuse? Please.

    Sure there was. The parents could have not come here in the first place. They are the ones risking their childrens' futures by dropping anchors here in the first place. I'm more concerned about American children and children whose parents have the legal right to stay here.


    Again you fail to answer the question of how the CHILDREN have any more control in this situation. Did you not understand that part? Whether or not the adults do...does not lessen the trauma to the children.

    I find that melodramatic.

    too bad.


    And you feel that comparing the US enforcing its laws to the roundup of millions of innocent victims by the Gestapo is intellectually honest? And you think I'm full of shit?
    I find mass rounding up of people's and their deportation comparable to ...the mass rounding up of people's and their deportation I never took it beyond that to the death camps-YOU DID. And the last part, well since you brought it up, yes I do. Lots of it. nasty too. Just like your 'not personal' remarks..where you call people ridiculous and twist what they say and mean..that 'not personal stuff' yeah right.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sojiita View Post
    I find mass rounding up of people's and their deportation comparable to ...the mass rounding up and people' and their deportation I never took it beyond that to the death camps-YOU DID. And the last part, well since you brought it up, yes I do. Lots of it. nasty too. Just like your 'not personal' remarks..where you call people ridiculous and twist what they say and mean..that 'not personal stuff' yeah right.
    You brought up the Holocaust. Expect the comparison to be made. Next you'll be calling it "ethnic cleansing." Anything less is intellectually dishonest, right?

    Also, in the name of intellectual honesty (it seems to be something you aspire to) I would appreciate it if you would refrain from accusing me of attacking you personally. I didn't attack you, I attacked your position. I'm off to eat now...have a lovely evening.

  8. #158
    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tee-ha-ha View Post
    You brought up the Holocaust. Expect the comparison to be made. Next you'll be calling it "ethnic cleansing." Anything less is intellectually dishonest, right?

    Also, in the name of intellectual honesty (it seems to be something you aspire to) I would appreciate it if you would refrain from accusing me of attacking you personally. I didn't attack you, I attacked your position. I'm off to eat now...have a lovely evening.
    Liar. I brought up Jews in Europe under the Nazi's..I brought up rounding up people and mass deportations..I did NOT bring up death camps and the rest..you NEED that part-the rest of it- to make it the Holocaust. You brought up the Holocaust, not me. And I DO think it verges on ethnic cleansing because I think for alot of people opposed to the illegal immigrants, part of the opposition is based on their ethnicity.

    And I really do not care how you might want to disguise it, if you use inflammatory language and have an inflammatory way of putting things when you are attacking people's arguments, then it IS being personal. Your saying it is not does not mean anything. The proof is how you respond.

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    Yikes. Illegal immigrants solve some problems and cause others. But when people start talking about rounding them up in large numbers and deporting them, I get the same queasy feeling I get when I hear the words "book burning," "it's for their own good," and "I was just following orders."
    Last edited by pacific breeze; January 30th, 2008 at 03:12 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by AliceInWonderland View Post
    that is an untrue statement. it doesn't even make sense!
    When the amnesty of 1986 was passed, Regan promised the American people that the illegal immigration problem was over, businesses would be punished for hiring illegals, etc. And look how that turned out! The problem with illegal immigration is worse than ever!

    I agree that the country is to blame for turning a blind eye to the problem of illegal immigration, and letting the situation get out of control. But the problem is compounded by having many totally incompetent countries to the south of our border. Our border with Canada is less guarded than the one with Mexico (despite being a longer land border), yet there is little problem with illegal immigration from Canada. Instead of asking the American people to feel sorry for people who are 'just looking for a better life,' why not demand Mexico and Central American countries change for the betterment of their people? We can't accept everyone who is poor, and is just looking for a better life. It's not feasable. Illegals are going to have to start looking at their home countries for the answers, and not running to the US as an escape from their problems.

    Oh, and who is advocating a mass deportation? I favor cutting off the jobs magnet and ending social services for illegals. Punish employers harshly for hiring illegal aliens, and make proof of legal residence manditory for receiving social services, etc. And the problem of illegals will dissapear. If they can't find jobs, and they can't get benefits, they will have to leave because they will have no way to support themselves. They came here (uninvited) of their own free will, and are perfectly capable of leaving the same way.

    I do think a few high profile raids of job sites would be beneficial to solving the problem. As is, the illegal population lives in our country with little fear of deportation. If you make them squeemish by putting that fear in their head, many may leave. A few well publicized raids would go a long way in getting illegal aliens to leave.

    I do agree that a mass rounding up and deporation of illegals is not practical. But improving border securing and interior enforcement (and speeding up the time it takes to deport illegal aliens), cutting off benefits, the jobs magnet, and a few high profile raids would do a lot of good. I think children of illegal aliens born on American soil should also be denied American citizenship. There is no reason to be creating a situation where many people come over the border, and deliberately have children to use to start claiming benefits. It's also an outrage that many people are coming over the border, having their child here at tax payer expense, and then returning to their home countries. Like I said in an earlier post, my aunt is a delivery room nurse, and illegal aliens are a huge problem.

    A blanket amnesty is not a good idea. Rewarding illegal behavior is never a good idea. I agree that we will never get rid of all the illegal aliens, but once the illegal population has been decreased through enforcement, maybe they can receive a work permit. They should not receive citizenship. The costs associated with giving illegal aliens citizenship would be disasterous, because then you add social security payments, etc. for a group of mostly uneducated people who don't have the ability to pay much in taxes.

  11. #161
    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nwgirl View Post
    ...
    To me, deportation is a totally reasonable solution. It's already used - they just need to step up enforcement. I'm not an advocate of setting people up just to deport them, but as you find them, send them home. It's what we do already, just do more of it. That? I wouldn't gripe one bit about my taxes going to that. Not one peep.
    Quote Originally Posted by purple rain View Post

    Oh, and who is advocating a mass deportation? ...

    The above section(bolded by me)quoted is not necessarly advocating it(mass deportations)..but is getting at the idea of it IMO (not an attack on you nwgirl)

    I do think a few high profile raids of job sites would be beneficial to solving the problem. As is, the illegal population lives in our country with little fear of deportation. If you make them squeemish by putting that fear in their head, many may leave. A few well publicized raids would go a long way in getting illegal aliens to leave.


    I do agree that a mass rounding up and deporation of illegals is not practical. But improving border securing and interior enforcement (and speeding up the time it takes to deport illegal aliens), cutting off benefits, the jobs magnet, and a few high profile raids would do a lot of good. I think children of illegal aliens born on American soil should also be denied American citizenship. There is no reason to be creating a situation where many people come over the border, and deliberately have children to use to start claiming benefits. It's also an outrage that many people are coming over the border, having their child here at tax payer expense, and then returning to their home countries. Like I said in an earlier post, my aunt is a delivery room nurse, and illegal aliens are a huge problem.

    A blanket amnesty is not a good idea. Rewarding illegal behavior is never a good idea. I agree that we will never get rid of all the illegal aliens, but once the illegal population has been decreased through enforcement, maybe they can receive a work permit. They should not receive citizenship. The costs associated with giving illegal aliens citizenship would be disasterous, because then you add social security payments, etc. for a group of mostly uneducated people who don't have the ability to pay much in taxes.
    I disagree with alot of your points. Especially the parts about denying citizenship to anyone born here..that is a part of Americana IMO. And the part about the poor 'not being able to pay taxes' stuff at the end. You do realize this is a nation of immigrants..most who arrived here DIRT POOR..you do remember the Statue of Liberty and the Emma Lazarus stuff from previous in this thread..'Give me..your poor.." That is the American way. Give them a chance and they will aspire like any other group. Keep them down, pidgeon hole them, etc. and you will simply add to/create a permanent underclass.


    I just detect alot of elitism in this thread and it is disturbing to me. I also wonder how people would be reacting if these illegals were blond haired, blue eyed, lily white, and spoke perfect English. '(This is not directed at any particular poster btw).


    I agree that the situation is not fair..especially to those who are waiting to get here legally..but the fact is the illegals who are already here should be allowed to stay here if they want to assimilate-absorbing them into the nation fully would actually be the best way to deal with them IMHO. And to try and ferret them out, get rid of them, would cost more in the long run IMO then absorbing them. I think if you want to do something about this problem you need to stop it where it begins. Where and how they get in to begin with.-now how do you do that..that is the question.

    And also along with that, crack down on the fucking companies who are attracting and exploiting this group of people. The ones who are making the most money offof the illegals are not the average American anyway, it is the upper class power holding segment that is benefiting the most..as the always benefit the most from just about anything.
    Last edited by Sojiita; January 30th, 2008 at 12:01 AM.
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    I bet you the people who bitch and moan about 'illegals' will be the first and loudest to bitch and moan when they have to start paying higher prices for their goods and services if employers are forced to pay decent wages. It won't be the wealthy 'upper classes' who will suffer when their bills go up - they can afford it. It's the poorer people who will bear the brunt of the increased cost of living.
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    And I'm sure they would find a way to blame the illegals for that, too.
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    The modern Democrat party has pissed all over FDR's dreams in order to pander to various constituencies so they'll elect them....then they turn around and don't do shit for them. The Republicans are worse. I think I may just stay home this year on Election Day.
    That's why the elections always suck for me. The Republicans can't keep their hands off my crotch and the Democrats can't keep their grubby paws out of my pocketbook!

    And I disagree in that what I cited was how CHILDREN would be affected-nothing voluntary there, no choice there.
    Sojita: I resent it when anyone tries to play the kiddie card and suggest that acceptions be made 'for the children(TM)'. I think the onus for not breaking up families should fall on the shoulders of the people who chose to gamble on trying to get into another country illegally. It's bad enough that people have anchor babies to get away with staying here. No one calls them out on 'using' their kids to get what they want. Sometimes when you gamble you lose and it isn't someone else's fault it didn't work out the way you planned.

    It won't be the wealthy 'upper classes' who will suffer when their bills go up - they can afford it. It's the poorer people who will bear the brunt of the increased cost of living.
    You mean the same poorer people whose jobs are primarily the ones that are going to illegals who work for so much less? Those? Because an illegal workforce doesn't personally affect an upper middle class professional like me, but I actually do have concern about the other people that is does impact.

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    I'm still having a difficult time understanding who these poor people are and what jobs they lost to illegals... someone give me some numbers and an actual scenario.

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