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Thread: Stocks dive on subprime mortgage worries

  1. #16
    Hit By Ban Bus! pacific breeze's Avatar
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    When economies go into severe recession as they always do in boom-bust, rersource-based economies, then even people who played by all the rules can get left high and dry. Just because you can do something, doesn't make it right, or mean you should do it.

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    Elite Member JamieElizabeth's Avatar
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    That would be a value then, which probably Americans are lacking in. America has been good at giving people the benefit of the doubt and allowing a loan to just about any first-time homebuyers.
    I don't know much about this topic except that you reap what you sow.

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    Hit By Ban Bus! UndercoverGator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamieElizabeth View Post
    America has been good at giving people the benefit of the doubt and allowing a loan to just about any first-time homebuyers..
    and they should NEVER have done that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pacific breeze View Post
    I think profiting from someone else's foreclosure misfortune is ethically and morally questionable. I know people do it, but I think it is ghoulish.

    I think it should be illegal. Just because they did a stupid thing -- if they did -- doesn't mean others should profit from it. Two wrongs don't make a right, etc.
    Are you suggesting because I purchase a foreclosed home, but in $20,000 in repairs, improve it from being a blight in the in the neighborhood and help raising the property values of the neighboring houses, providing jobs and money for contractors and electricians and other tradespeople to feed their families, that I'm ghoulish and ethically and morally questionable?!?!?!

    What about the people that don't health insurance but still get treated by a doctor who expects to get paid an large amount of money for this services? When the people can't pay that money due to their limited means and must file bankruptcy. I don't suppose that's morally questionable.

    What about most of the retail items that you purchase that are made in foreign countries where workers that are paid a pennies an hour and live in shacks, so you can own a towel for $8.99 from Target? I suppose that's not morally questionable.

    I guess all the homes that get foreclosed should stay empty and become run down shacks because no one should ever buy a house that was foreclosed on....I think you need a little dose of reality before you begin preaching your high ethic and moral standards.

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    Elite Member JamieElizabeth's Avatar
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    ^^ I think that both of you are right, yet the topic has some grey area. We would have to find a more specific topic to debate.

    This post was mainly on the larger scale of needing the Fed, and the possibility of more foreclosures down the road.

    And like I said, and also you mention is that the people who are willing and ready to roll up their sleeves and do the dirty work are the ones reaping the benefits. They aren't the original developers of the land, though.

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    Hit By Ban Bus! UndercoverGator's Avatar
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    I'm all in favor of 'flipping' A group of us would invest in a run down old mansion on the edges of the Uptown area of New Orleans, move in together and spend all our spare time renovating it, turning around and selling it at the end of the year for a very handsome profit. We did this three times and it helped the tuition bills greatly. I'd do it again in a heartbeat.

  7. #22
    SVZ
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    Gentrification?

  8. #23
    Hit By Ban Bus! pacific breeze's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by louiswinthorpe111 View Post
    Are you suggesting because I purchase a foreclosed home, but in $20,000 in repairs, improve it from being a blight in the in the neighborhood and help raising the property values of the neighboring houses, providing jobs and money for contractors and electricians and other tradespeople to feed their families, that I'm ghoulish and ethically and morally questionable?!?!?!

    What about the people that don't health insurance but still get treated by a doctor who expects to get paid an large amount of money for this services? When the people can't pay that money due to their limited means and must file bankruptcy. I don't suppose that's morally questionable.

    What about most of the retail items that you purchase that are made in foreign countries where workers that are paid a pennies an hour and live in shacks, so you can own a towel for $8.99 from Target? I suppose that's not morally questionable.

    I guess all the homes that get foreclosed should stay empty and become run down shacks because no one should ever buy a house that was foreclosed on....I think you need a little dose of reality before you begin preaching your high ethic and moral standards.
    I thought you were buying up these houses to make money, I didn't realize it was a charitable endeavour. My understanding of foreclosure is a little different from yours. Here, it usually means taking over a house in a regular neighbourhood in a city or suburb -- not reviving an entire economy in an inner-city slum as you are suggesting. I've never heard of good Samaritans taking foreclosed houses off people's hands (who are likely going into the streets homeless if they are living in such dire straits in the first place) to ensure that the community moves forward and that a handful of people get jobs. Put like that, it is hard to disagree with. I just worry a little about the people who lost their homes in the first place. What are you doing to help them?

    And all of the other examples you mention ARE equally morally and ethically questionable. I believe in universal healthcare and always have, I don't knowingly support unfair labour practices. But I'm not sure what those issues have to do with the topic at hand.

    Just because it is legal to buy foreclosed homes, doesn't make it right, in my opinion. One of my cousin's wives does this for a "hobby" and she hasn't helped a disadvantaged person by doing so in 20 years. Neither has a former colleague of mine who is many times a millionaire because of his interest in other people's misfortunes, I mean foreclosures, and he's yet to save a neighbourhood. I no longer speak to either one of them because I find what they do despicable -- it's not like they need the money.

    But if you are truly saving communities by profiting from foreclosures, more power to you. Maybe they'll even name a street after you.
    Last edited by pacific breeze; March 18th, 2007 at 02:27 AM.

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    SVZ
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    Let's keep this above snide remarks?

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    Hit By Ban Bus! UndercoverGator's Avatar
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    PB I usually agree with you but this one time I have to disagree. There's nothing morally wrong with taking advange of some immoral stupidity to turn a buck by buying foreclosed homes. Sure, there are people who did nothing wrong that lost their homes because of death or job loss but here in the States it is much much more common that some idiot bought at place they could not afford on a sub prime loan and didn't have a hope in hell of ever paying it off so they go bankrupt. The banks sell those houses very cheap, you go in do a few repairs, sell cheaper than the first family bought it for and make a few bucks in the process. How exactly is that morally wrong in a free society? Isn't it morally wrong to plunge your family into debt such as they have no way of ever paying it off? Isn't it morally wrong to have too high of expectations of what you deserve?

    You're just using a financial advantage to make a few more bucks. Nothing wrong with that.

  11. #26
    Gold Member Corsair's Avatar
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    In a foreclosure (in California) the bank is repossessing the house - and the bank then owns it and re-sells it. If someone doesn't fulfill their obligation and gets behind, contracts are contracts and it will be sold, period. The people buying the foreclosure houses are buying from the BANK normally.

    What I find terrible (and I used to know of this being done) was private "investors" that would look up people who were in default (public record) but not yet in foreclosure, and "help" them by loaning them money with a second mortgage. Then of course the person couldn't make that payment, they'd foreclose on the second, bring the first mortgage and taxes current and have the house. THOSE people made me sick (this was back in the 80's in California.)

    I think buying foreclosures is an ugly business, but I never look badly at the people who buy them, more so the people that got in over their heads and the banks that helped them do it.
    Don't worry about what other people think. They don't do it very often.

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    The alternative is what? Leaving perfectly good homes empty and unavailable for other people to either live in themselves or flip? The same market forces apply in this situation. Capitalism and morality have never been comfortable bedfellows but that's the system we choose to live by for better, for worse.
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    Quote Originally Posted by UndercoverGator View Post
    PB I usually agree with you but this one time I have to disagree. There's nothing morally wrong with taking advange of some immoral stupidity to turn a buck by buying foreclosed homes. Sure, there are people who did nothing wrong that lost their homes because of death or job loss but here in the States it is much much more common that some idiot bought at place they could not afford on a sub prime loan and didn't have a hope in hell of ever paying it off so they go bankrupt. The banks sell those houses very cheap, you go in do a few repairs, sell cheaper than the first family bought it for and make a few bucks in the process. How exactly is that morally wrong in a free society? Isn't it morally wrong to plunge your family into debt such as they have no way of ever paying it off? Isn't it morally wrong to have too high of expectations of what you deserve?

    You're just using a financial advantage to make a few more bucks. Nothing wrong with that.

    Yes, I agree with this. For every family that has lost their house because of unfortunate circumstances, there is another that is losing theirs because of poor judgement and greed. A lot of young people these days feel that they deserve a large luxury home right off the bat and they bite off more than they can chew. I am actually downright bitter sometimes because we know so many people, many of them younger than us, who have WAY nicer houses than we do. My husband makes a lot of money, but we have chosen to live beneath our means to help protect ourselves from financial disaster. When some young snot thinks they're better than me because they have a nicer house, it makes me want to smack them. So if someone like that who is one lost paycheck away from having it all cave in on them goes into foreclosure I am not going to feel sorry for them. And if someone who has been smart with their money can purchase that house at a bargain for an investment, more power to them.

  14. #29
    Hit By Ban Bus! pacific breeze's Avatar
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    I think I am more concerned about the people Louis was talking about. She/he is buying, or wants to buy, properties in slums. I am assuming that those people were not living above their means in the same sense as what you and Gator are describing.

    Everybody has to make up their own minds as to what they think is right or wrong in these situations. I know how I feel, and it hasn't changed.

  15. #30
    Silver Member Cotjockey's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotncmom View Post
    Yes, I agree with this. For every family that has lost their house because of unfortunate circumstances, there is another that is losing theirs because of poor judgement and greed. A lot of young people these days feel that they deserve a large luxury home right off the bat and they bite off more than they can chew. I am actually downright bitter sometimes because we know so many people, many of them younger than us, who have WAY nicer houses than we do. My husband makes a lot of money, but we have chosen to live beneath our means to help protect ourselves from financial disaster. When some young snot thinks they're better than me because they have a nicer house, it makes me want to smack them. So if someone like that who is one lost paycheck away from having it all cave in on them goes into foreclosure I am not going to feel sorry for them. And if someone who has been smart with their money can purchase that house at a bargain for an investment, more power to them.


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