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Thread: States could lose money over prison rapes

  1. #16
    Elite Member greysfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    if it was your kid in prison getting raped i'm sure you would feel differently, even if he was a screw up. if we consider ourselves civilised societies then we have to care about any rapes. prison is not supposed to be state-sanctioned revenge. it's supposed to punish and reform within legal parametres. .
    Well of course I'd care about my kid, that's my kid. My point is, everyone knows if you go to prison your chance of being sexually assaulted goes up dramatically, yet people still constantly do things that will land them in jail. If they don't care about the consequences of their actions then why should I?

    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    if you say you don't care about rapes in prison, then you don't really care about the kids who got raped by priests (or other kids) in reform schools. after all, they were in there for being screw ups too.

    Your logic simply does not follow. I stated quite clearly that guard on prisoner rape is a different story. That's an abuse of power.
    FUCK YOU AND GIVE ME MY GODDAMN VENTI TWO PUMP LIGHT WHIP MOCHA YOU COCKSUCKING WHORE BEFORE I PUNCH YOU IN THE MOUTH. I just get unpleasant in my car. - Deej

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  2. #17
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    ^^
    i said abuse by priests and other kids. it wasn't always an abuse of power, there was abuse among the kids as well.

    also, as another poster said, by allowing this, the state loses its moral standing. moreover, by not doing anything, the state is tacitly condoning the practice. and really, what is the difference between that and countries that allow their armed forces to use rape as a weapon of war?

    if we don't care about prisoners getting raped because, after all, they're criminals, how is that different than not caring if prostitutes get raped since after all, that's what they do for a living? or saying that crime only matters if it's perpetrated on innocent victims. that's not how it works. it doesn't matter if you were dealing weed, that doesn't give a cop the right to beat you to death.
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  3. #18
    Elite Member greysfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    ^^
    i said abuse by priests and other kids. it wasn't always an abuse of power, there was abuse among the kids as well. .
    In those cases priest = guard.

    Kids raping kids is also a different story, as part of the job is to protect the kids. Allowing rape is not protecting them.

    also, as another poster said, by allowing this, the state loses its moral standing. moreover, by not doing anything, the state is tacitly condoning the practice. and really, what is the difference between that and countries that allow their armed forces to use rape as a weapon of war?
    I inherently disagree that the states lose their moral standing. Legally speaking, the directive is to keep criminals incarcerated and off the streets. If someone wishes to introduce laws that the state is also responsible for keeping the prisoners safe, then that's a different story. At that stage, willfully allowing rape would not be following their own guidelines. Regardless, i still don't care.

    if we don't care about prisoners getting raped because, after all, they're criminals, how is that different than not caring if prostitutes get raped since after all, that's what they do for a living? or saying that crime only matters if it's perpetrated on innocent victims. that's not how it works. it doesn't matter if you were dealing weed, that doesn't give a cop the right to beat you to death.
    Once again, the logic simply does not follow. How on earth are you even equating the rape of prostitutes to this discussion? If they're in jail, then maybe I could see your point. And cops beating someone to death for dealing weed? C'mon now. Again, that has absolutely NOTHING to do with what I said, but still goes back to the abuse of power argument.
    FUCK YOU AND GIVE ME MY GODDAMN VENTI TWO PUMP LIGHT WHIP MOCHA YOU COCKSUCKING WHORE BEFORE I PUNCH YOU IN THE MOUTH. I just get unpleasant in my car. - Deej

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  4. #19
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    ^^^^
    uh, last i heard, prisons are supposed to adhere to the law. guards are there to enforce rules and make sure nothing illegal goes on, and that includes rape.
    and of course states lose their moral standing. what does it say about a country if their government turns a blind eye to rapes being committed anywhere? tacitly condoning a practice that is illegal constitutes abuse of power IMO.
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    Elite Member BITTER's Avatar
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    Many ex-cons who are raped in prison will rape once released. I don't know the exact percentage, but trust me, it's not low.

  6. #21
    Elite Member greysfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    ^^^^
    uh, last i heard, prisons are supposed to adhere to the law. guards are there to enforce rules and make sure nothing illegal goes on, and that includes rape.
    and of course states lose their moral standing. what does it say about a country if their government turns a blind eye to rapes being committed anywhere? tacitly condoning a practice that is illegal constitutes abuse of power IMO.

    Again, I disagree. Guards are not cops. They're there to keep prisoners inside, the rest is governed by individual state regulations.

    And no, I still don't agree that states lose their moral standing. The state is not responsible for everyone.

    I think our fundamental difference is individual responsibility. Adult individuals are responsible for themselves. If someone is dumb enough to commit a crime that lands them in jail then what happens to them in jail, is their responsibility. No one else's. being provided with food, water, shelter, medical care and an acceptable level of hygiene is all I feel the state owes them, and all I really care to pay for. Yet, I'm paying for free lawyers, college educations, rec facilities, cable TV, etc. That's fucked up. Most of my life I wasn't able to afford those luxuries, yet the "state" took money from my paycheck to pay for those things for people who were supposedly being punished. And I don't care to pay for extra guards to make sure no rapes occur. Sorry, I just don't give a damn what horrors they see in prison.
    FUCK YOU AND GIVE ME MY GODDAMN VENTI TWO PUMP LIGHT WHIP MOCHA YOU COCKSUCKING WHORE BEFORE I PUNCH YOU IN THE MOUTH. I just get unpleasant in my car. - Deej

    http://www.gossiprocks.com/forum/signaturepics/sigpic4098_9.gif Healthy is merely the slowest possible rate at which one can die.

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    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honey View Post
    Any rape bothers me, nobody deserves it


    Well, I can't say I share your sentiments when it comes to sex offenders and animal abusers(although they never seem to get locked up). I definately don't want to see it happen to non-violent people (well, maybe scam artists who have defrauded old people out of their life savings or something).
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  8. #23
    Elite Member ManxMouse's Avatar
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    Jeez. You know, most of these people will be released again someday, and I don't want them to be more violent, angry, and disturbed than when they went in. Also, I am not a fan of rape.
    Santa is an elitist mother fucker -- giving expensive shit to rich kids and nothing to poor kids.

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    Again, I disagree. Guards are not cops. They're there to keep prisoners inside, the rest is governed by individual state regulations.

    And no, I still don't agree that states lose their moral standing. The state is not responsible for everyone.
    People in jail are in custody of the state. In custody means that the state is responsible for them, within the bounds of reason (which includes adequate safeguards).

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