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Thread: South Dakota bans all abortion, except in case of saving mothers life

  1. #76
    Gold Member glamazon's Avatar
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    Default Re: South Dakota bans all abortion, except in case of saving mothers life

    Hi RainbowSun,

    welcome to the debate. I'm a pro-choicer. I marched in DC to show my support for abortion rights.

    I am not sure if I would go through an abortion, but I do know people who have had one. They made a difficult decision and I respect their decisions and circumstances. I am pro-choice because even if I PERSONALLY coudlnt' do it, I do not feel that the gov't has a right to tell me or anyone else what I can do with my body, including a fetus.

    I do not believe life begins at conception. I also do not believe that women are breeding cows. If I were raped and got pregnant (and 33% of rapes turn into pregnancies) you bet yourbottom dollar I would abort it. If you want my baby, I will gladly give it to you as soon as I get it out of me. If you want an unwanted child so much, go to the adoption agency and look at all the minority children with no homes to go to and go get one. I am not a breeding cow; I will not carry a child to term that I do not want and cannot care for.

    I think it is arrogant to impose your morality on me. I think its immoral to have a child when you cannot fully provide for it. I think it's immoral the way children grow up without proper school, food, shelter, love and family attention. I also THOUGHT that the ability to choose is part of what America is about. Why are you so concerned with unborn children? what about helping the children that exist now? Pro Lifers are beautiful in their naivete: they love the potential of man, and once that potential is unfulfilled, you will throw it away in the death penalty and fight for another unborn person....please.
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  2. #77
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: South Dakota bans all abortion, except in case of saving mothers life

    Quote Originally Posted by RainbowSun
    First of all, an abortion is nothing more than murdering another person. That is immoral and SHOULD be illegal.
    A collection of dividing cells is a person? By that logic, so are all the millions of skin cells you shed every day.

    Secondly, it's immoral to YOU based on some religious teaching no doubt. Why should your religious teachings and the 'morality' that comes hypocritically packaged with it be applied to anybody else?

    Thirdly, are you prepared to support, through tax dollars or your own hard earned cash, each child that is concieved either in error, by accident, or through ignorance? Or does your "right to life" immediately end when said children are born?

    Save them in the womb, but ship them off to war or let them starve in squalor because their parents aren't able to support them?

    Wow, brilliant.


    Secondly, a woman loses the right to choose what to do with her body once that body becomes a vessel for another human life.
    In your opinion, and again.. why should that be applied to anybody else but yourself? Why do you think it's appropriate for your beliefs to remove CHOICE from another person? Isn't that oppression?

    I don't understand how a child immediately becomes endangered when created by a rape. There are people who would adopt, myself included, an unwanted baby.
    Good for you, but does that belief mean that the woman who was raped has to go through birthing a child she does not want? Shouldn't she have the choice whether to endure the hardship of pregnancy from a forced conception or not?

    I love the typical neocon thinking: Things should be done MY way irregardless of the hardship and pain it causes other people because that's how I want it.

    If it was you in the situation, you'd think differently.

    As I read all the liberal hogwash posts on this topic, I am utterly amazed at the opinions of most of you. Have you no conscience?
    Your neocon logic paints you as a fascist, so eager to remove peoples CHOICE because it doesn't fit your narrow little worldview. I would prefer people being in control of their own bodies and being able to make the choices THEY WANT than some freak religious nut telling them what they can and cannot do based on some musty 2000 year old book. But hey.. neocons aren't exactly proponents of FREEDOM as you've just clearly demonstrated.

    You have no problem picketing to save a scumbag from the electric chair, yet you find it acceptable to murder a defenseless baby?
    A collection of cells is a baby? How interesting. Last I checked, it was a collection of cells.
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  3. #78
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    Default Re: South Dakota bans all abortion, except in case of saving mothers life

    Holy cow! I guess by technical definition, I'm pro-choice, but personally would never abort a child. There are circumstances to every situation that have to be taken into consideration. If you find yourself in a situation where you don't want to risk being pregnant, then there's the morning after pill. When I was little and understood what rape was, I knew I would be the type of person that would have and raise the child. While, yes, it's the result of a horrific experience, that child is still a part of you. That was before the morning after pill and now I would probably consider taking it. If it's going to be done, do it as soon as possible. There have been times when my cycle was a week or so late and then suspiciously bad when it decided to show up. Chances are, it was an early miscarry. If you're not worried about getting pregant, you never know. You do it every month anyhow.

    Also, from the minute the stick had 2 pink lines on it, I was pregnant with a "baby", not an embryo or fetus but a baby. At 9 weeks I could see his heart on the ultrasound and at 12 weeks I could feel him moving around. It's all in your mindset. With that in mind, it was so nauseating for me to find pictures of aborted pregnancies while looking for development pictures each week while I was pregnant. I don't know how a person could make the decision to go through with it after reading what was going to happen during the procedure (some of them were hideous and the doctors stated that the child would feel pain). But that is every person's decision to make. I don't have to agree with it and I don't have to make it. Some people told me I shouldn't have an epidural during delivery, I made my own decision on that.

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: South Dakota bans all abortion, except in case of saving mothers life

    Yes, the issue with choice is that it's not pretty. That's the cost. Nobody said choice would be pleasant in a lot of cases but you get the good with the bad.
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    A*O
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    Default Re: South Dakota bans all abortion, except in case of saving mothers life

    We are debating the symptom, not the cause of unwanted pregnancy and that is FULLY ACCESSIBLE BIRTH CONTROL!!!! It's not foolproof (unfortunately the morons of this world will continue to spread their fuckwit DNA around the murky and overcrowded pool they already inhabit) but let's address the problem of bad (no?) sex ed in schools, 12th century religious dogma, costly birth control and ignorance.
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    Default Re: South Dakota bans all abortion, except in case of saving mothers life

    RainbowSun, this line is very disturbing:

    "a woman loses the right to choose what to do with her body once that body becomes a vessel for another human life."

    You should never willingly give up any right over your own body to anyone, especially to the government. If you believe abortion is wrong then don't ever have one, but you should think twice about giving up that power. I don't want the government involved with any decision that has to do with my body including medical and end of life decisions, it's better left to me and my family.
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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: South Dakota bans all abortion, except in case of saving mothers life

    Yeah, it's not fucking rocket science..

    Abstinence only sex ed

    +

    teenagers fucking anyway, like they always have and always will

    +

    lack of education on prevention

    +

    religious guilt/religious prudishness

    +

    religious edicts of 'right to life', even if it they are a total crock

    =

    LOTS OF UNWANTED BABIES THAT THE YOUNG PARENTS CANT SUPPORT

    /

    SUFFERING, UNWANTED CHILDREN, DRAIN ON SOCIETY
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  8. #83
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    Default Re: South Dakota bans all abortion, except in case of saving mothers life

    Quote Originally Posted by deckchick
    Well lets see...

    Better birth control info = less abortions

    Abortions banned in SD + lousy birth control info = back alley abortions

    So, in recap

    1. Better birth control info is good

    2. Access to abortions is good

    3. Illegal abortions are bad

    Is this simple enough for ya?
    1.) I'm not a fucking idiot. 2.) Maybe you should stop trying to answer for other people.

    MUSHY is the one who said she went to a Catholic high school in St. Louis 1984-1988 when they discussed all forms of birth control. So I asked MUSHY what that has to do with the topic at hand. All the points that you, Deckchick, have laid out are ridiculously easy to grasp. So my response is, quite obviously, "Duh."

    So, MUSHY: What point was it you were trying to make, telling us that your Catholic high school in St. Louis taught sex ed from 1984-1988 that included other forms of birth control besides abstinence?? Does the high school continue to do so???

    Quote Originally Posted by RainbowSun
    As I read all the liberal hogwash posts on this topic, I am utterly amazed at the opinions of most of you. Have you no conscience? You have no problem picketing to save a scumbag from the electric chair, yet you find it acceptable to murder a defenseless baby?
    The first rule of debate is to know what the hell it is you're talking about. I've never picketed to save someone from the electric chair, and so far in this thread, no one else has claimed to. And I don't think it's acceptable to murder a defenseless baby. However: A FETUS IS NOT A BABY. That's why we call it "fetus" instead of "baby."

    Tell me, RainbowSun, how do you feel about roaches and flies and rats? Do you kill them when you see them? Do you eat meat? Do you wear leather? Because if you're a pro-lifer, I would expect you to revere ALL FORMS OF LIFE, not just little human babies.

    I suspect it's narcissism that makes people claim to be pro-life, not compassion. Pro-lifers only care about little human babies. They could give two shits about animal babies, I'm willing to wager...

    Oh, and by the way, RainbowSun: Hogwash? Really? It's "hogwash" just because you disagree? Yeah, that's what I'd expect about narrow-minded hypocritical "pro-lifers" such as yourself.

  9. #84
    Gold Member deckchick's Avatar
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    Default Re: South Dakota bans all abortion, except in case of saving mothers life

    Quote Originally Posted by WickedHo
    1.) I'm not a fucking idiot. 2.) Maybe you should stop trying to answer for other people.

    MUSHY is the one who said she went to a Catholic high school in St. Louis 1984-1988 when they discussed all forms of birth control. So I asked MUSHY what that has to do with the topic at hand. All the points that you, Deckchick, have laid out are ridiculously easy to grasp. So my response is, quite obviously, "Duh."

    So, MUSHY: What point was it you were trying to make, telling us that your Catholic high school in St. Louis taught sex ed from 1984-1988 that included other forms of birth control besides abstinence?? Does the high school continue to do so???
    This is a message forum, not a private convo my touchy fellow poster, and the reply you are referring to is in response to the post of yours that was directed to me.

    Quote Originally Posted by WickedHo
    ^^ Yeah, but that was back in 1984 - 1988. That's the post I was referring to. So I still say again: WHAT IS THE POINT? HOW IS IT RELEVANT TO WHAT IS HAPPENING TODAY IN SOUTH DAKOTA?
    Common sense should tell you that abortion rights is a very sensitive topic for debate. If you don't want people responding to any of your posts, then DON"T post!

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    Default Re: South Dakota bans all abortion, except in case of saving mothers life

    Quote Originally Posted by deckchick
    This is a message forum, not a private convo my touchy fellow poster, and the reply you are referring to is in response to the post of yours that was directed to me.

    Common sense should tell you that abortion rights is a very sensitive topic for debate. If you don't want people responding to any of your posts, then DON"T post!
    How hard is it for you to grasp this simple concept: I WAS ASKING MUSHY WHAT THE POINT WAS OF MENTIONING A ST. LOUIS CATHOLIC SCHOOL TEACHING SEX ED BACK IN THE LATE 80s. I don't care if other people besides Mushy answer the question. The problem is, you answered a question I didn't ask. THAT'S WHY I suggested that YOU, Deckchick, stop answering for other people. To avoid confusion. CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THAT????

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    Gold Member deckchick's Avatar
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    Default Re: South Dakota bans all abortion, except in case of saving mothers life

    Quote Originally Posted by WickedHo
    How hard is it for you to grasp this simple concept: I WAS ASKING MUSHY WHAT THE POINT WAS OF MENTIONING A ST. LOUIS CATHOLIC SCHOOL TEACHING SEX ED BACK IN THE LATE 80s. I don't care if other people besides Mushy answer the question. The problem is, you answered a question I didn't ask. THAT'S WHY I suggested that YOU, Deckchick, stop answering for other people. To avoid confusion. CAN YOU UNDERSTAND THAT????
    I thought I gave you my opinion/answer to THAT question. Sorry if I confused you.

    Now take a deep breath and relax
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  12. #87
    Elite Member Barbara's Avatar
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    Default Re: South Dakota bans all abortion, except in case of saving mothers life

    Abortions are going to happen, no matter what. Making them illegal is just ensuring they'll happen in bad conditions.

    I am against serial abortions as a contraception method.

    I had an abortion 7 years ago and I don't wish it on anybody. And like the word murder or not, what I felt was that I was letting this fetus I had seen on the echography getting killed, destroyed. It was not just a number of cells.
    Those were desperate months, I didn't really feel like I had a choice, I was too young (maybe not in years, but in my head) to be able to face my family with that, and I did something I will feel pain for all my life.

    But I thank the law for having given me the choice. I can deal with my body, my faith and my conscience on my own, thank you.
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    A*O
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    Default Re: South Dakota bans all abortion, except in case of saving mothers life

    I had an abortion many years ago when I was young and dumb. I'm not proud of it, but I don't regret it either. It was the best decision in those particular circumstances and if I found myself in that situation again, I would do it again. At least I was able to do so legally and under medical supervision.

    My mother had an illegal, backstreet abortion in the 1950s as a result of a broken condom. She was unmarried and the father (my father) was about to go overseas for 2 years military service. She was living at home and her parents would have thrown her out if she told them she was pregnant. So she scraped together enough money and paid a midwife to perform the abortion using some very basic and unpleasant equipment. After 2 weeks of intermittent bleeding, and in total secrecy, my mother 'gave birth' to my brother in a bathroom and buried him. She was lucky she didn't suffer any infection or other complications. THAT is the reality of backstreet abortion.
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    Default Re: South Dakota bans all abortion, except in case of saving mothers life

    A*O: Thanks for sharing with us. I am so sorry for what your mother had to go through, and I'm glad she survived! The situation you described just goes to show the harsh reality of it all: THERE IS NO SIMPLE SOLUTION.

    Deckchick:

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    Default Re: South Dakota bans all abortion, except in case of saving mothers life

    Thanks - I'm glad she survived too or else I wouldn't be here! Another potential problem with backstreet abortions is permanent infertility, although to be honest there are a lot of women out there who would be doing humanity a favour if they were unable to breed.

    Pro Lifers are entitled to their beliefs - but if abortion is banned in South Dakota then I think every 'unwanted' child born to an unwilling mother should be allocated to a pro lifer for adoption. Let's see them walk the walk as well as talk the talk.
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