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Thread: Six Muslim men removed from a plane last fall sue passengers

  1. #31
    Elite Member moomies's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    On my recent trip to Curacao, the little brown guy i was working with, the indonesian and the taiwanese girl were all hauled into small rooms and interrogated for an hour on the way back.

    The white guy and girl got through easy-peasy.

    Surprise.
    Did they have Canadian passports?

    I never get this kind of treatments when I go overseas, I have never been treated unfairly. Even when I went to the US post 9/11 (went to Vegas with friends), the customs officer was so friendly and nice towards me like he asked me how long I was gonna stay I said 4 days, then he goes "Oh you should stay longer" "No I don't have enough money" etc.
    I guess I'm just very lucky. If you still get treated so badly with Canadian passport, I'd prolly keep my Japper one...

    If you think it's crazy, you ain't seen a thing. Just wait until we're goin down in flames.

  2. #32
    Hit By Ban Bus! pacific breeze's Avatar
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    I've met lots of friendly people at American customs. A few years ago, one guy wished me a happy birthday -- he was looking at my passport and I'd completely forgotten that it was my birthday!

    But the past few years has been mixed, to say the least. I smile, I never volunteer anything, I answer each question clearly and politely, and I've been treated like a criminal -- and so have lots of others around me. A lot of it just depends where you are -- LAX is notorious -- and who happens to be working that day and if they have a power issue. Also, petite blondes fit the drug mule profile, so that sometimes causes problems for me, too. Apparently we're all stupid enough to do anything a man tells us.

  3. #33
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Miami international was not much better... every damn 50 feet there was some checkpoint and some rude asshole asking why my suitcase was so heavy.. hello, 6 weeks worth of clothes? They didn't believe me or something. Rolled eyes and everything.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  4. #34
    Hit By Ban Bus! WickedHo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Born In A Brothel View Post
    By PATRICK CONDON, Associated Press Writer 59 minutes ago



    MINNEAPOLIS - Six Muslim men removed from a plane last fall after being accused of suspicious behavior are suing not only the airline but the passengers who complained a move some fear could discourage travelers from speaking up when they see something unusual.

    The civil rights lawsuit, filed earlier this month, has so alarmed some lawyers that they are offering to defend the unnamed "John Doe" passengers free of charge. They say it is vital that the flying public be able to report suspicious behavior without fear of being dragged into court.

    "When you drive up the road towards the airport, there's a big road sign that says, `Report suspicious behavior,'" said Gerry Nolting, a Minneapolis lawyer. "There's no disclaimer that adds, `But beware if you do that, you might get sued.'"

    The six imams were taken off a Phoenix-bound US Airways flight on Nov. 20 while returning home from a conference of Islamic clerics in Minneapolis.

    Other passengers had gotten nervous when the men were seen praying and chanting in Arabic as they waited to board. Some passengers also said that the men spoke of Saddam Hussein and cursed the United States; that they requested seat belt extenders with heavy buckles and stowed them under their seats; that they were moving about and conferring with each other during boarding; and that they sat separately in seats scattered through the cabin.

    More at Passengers sued over imams' removal - Yahoo! News
    1. What's wrong with saying a prayer for safe passage? The imams were probably praying to Allah for exactly that reason.

    2. How do those jagoff xenophobes know the imams were talking favorably about Saddam Hussein and cursing America? Do they speak the imams' language?

    3. Of course the imams' seats were scattered all over the plane! Surely they didn't all purchase their seats together at the same time. That's the only way to insure you're seated with your traveling companions. Duh.

    4. Is it suspicious behavior to move about the cabin and have a conversation? Why is that nefarious??

    Sometimes, I really fucking hate people. For real.

  5. #35
    Hit By Ban Bus! WickedHo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by msdebagain View Post
    The six imams were taken off a Phoenix-bound US Airways flight on Nov. 20 while returning home from a conference of Islamic clerics in Minneapolis.

    while i understand and agree with most of what you say, they did request the extenders. it should be everyones right to report suspicious behavior, unfounded or not. its sad that it had to happen, but as long as its an alternate way of making me safe, then thats the way it has to be. i dont care if they are black, white, or polka dotted, if i'm worried, i'm speaking up
    So you're in support of racial profiling? Because that's what you've just described.

    See, this is precisely why insurance rates soar each and every year: AN OVERLY-LITIGIOUS NATION OF COMPLAINERS AND DUMBASSES ARE SCREWING IT UP FOR EVERYONE.

    What these jackasses did is just as reprehensible as falsely reporting a crime: it siphons valuable resources away from the investigation of actual, bona fide crimes and criminal behavior. I really fucking hate people sometimes.

  6. #36
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    ^Thank you WH. Like Grimm said we haven't seen the videotape (if a full one even exists), and we don't know. I saw these guys on CNN and other places, they are mild-mannered clergymen. And no, I do not believe it is best in err on the side of caution in all cases or even most cases in a situation like this.

    People who aren't of the Muslim faith should give the same respect to other that they expect for themselves. I do not for one second believe that these guys were behaving suspiciously. They are clergymen in the public eye in their communities, and they are publicly known. Uh, excuse me but terrorists usually aren't.

    It disgusts me the way clueless Americans have a rabid unfounded fear of anything that is even remotely different than their limited scope can fathom, and seize any opportunity to sock it to hapless people while scoring a hoped-for monetary settlement. Dream on.

    Quote Originally Posted by pacific breeze View Post
    If those men had been white fundamentalists preaching hate, nobody would have batted an eye.
    Exactly.

    I will have to see what they prayed for in their complaint before commenting upon whether or not they should have brought suit, although I will say that unless thery were compromised financially in a way that can be proven as a result of this situation, I think it should have been a "in-principle-only" lawsuit.

  7. #37
    Hit By Ban Bus! WickedHo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by southernbelle View Post
    The airline was absolutely right to remove them from the plane. In fact, I can't believe that people are even questioning it. It is deeply troubling to me that it's gotten to the point where people are criticized for voicing their (legitimate) concerns about situations such as these. I can only pray that my family or I are never on a flight where a group of men who fit the exact physical profile of 100% of the 9/11 hijackers are demonstrating such suspicious behavior and people are too afraid of not being politically correct to speak up about it.
    Your suspicions are groundless and racist. Did the plane blow up? Did they find explosive materials in the imams' possession? No, they did not. Why? Because the imams were going about their business, living their lives. Yes, they may have in fact spoken negatively about America. So the fuck what? Is being a Muslim and speaking negatively about America legitimate cause for taking said Muslim into custody? NO IT IS NOT. Goddammit.

    All y'all need to realize that the big bad scary ooga booga Muslims aren't out to get you. They really aren't. It's just the extreme fundamentalist crazies that want to kill you. Which is why fundies suck, be they Muslim or Christian.

    Quote Originally Posted by southernbelle View Post
    Their behavior was suspcious enough to cause multiple passengers to raise concerns about it and that is grounds for removal. I haven't seen anything that indicates to me that passengers were overreacting. It wasn't just "pacing on a cell phone" that raised concerns. It was the SERIES of bizarre and suspicious actions that took place once they boarded the aircraft, several of which were similar to behaviors exhibited by the 9/11 hijackers and indicated a possible terrorist situation.

    There is a line between racist hysteria and a real threat, and this incident was indisputably on the side of "real threat."
    Quote Originally Posted by pacific breeze View Post
    Again, if they were a real threat, then why were they allowed into the country in the first place? Just trying to be logical....
    More importantly, if they were a real threat, why were they allowed on a later flight?? Hmmmmm?

    Quote Originally Posted by greeneyedbeauty View Post
    I agree with everything you said. When it comes to life or death, to hell with being correct.
    But that's just it!! Don't you get it?? This wasn't a matter of life and death.

    Quote Originally Posted by MrsDark View Post
    Okay, if I were one of these guys...I think I'd be going out of my freaking way not to behave in any way that might arouse suspicion! I think I could go one flight dressed nondescript and nix the outloud chanting and prayers. It seems like they were just daring someone to give them shit so they could be all full of righteous indignation.
    Don't Muslims pray a certain number of times each day? If so, and if not saying these prayers is tantamount to mortal sin, then who are you to say they should "nix out-loud chanting and prayers"? Such ill-founded, uneducated, naive judgments are precisely what leads to racism and theocentrism and xenophobia and mass hysteria. Good grief.

    Obviously, you're not religious, and none of those passengers that complained know a damn thing about the Muslim faith. NADA. Zilch.
    Quote Originally Posted by celeb_2006 View Post
    TOTALLY agree with you. Obviously I am against racism and unfair profiling, but in this day and age people should know better than to act in 'strange' ways. You are right, I get the feeling they were totally daring the passengers to do something about it. It's fine to call people on racism or profiling, but at the airport is surely not the place to be doing any form of "activism."

    When it comes to flying, better safe than sorry.
    FUCK ALTERING YOUR BEHAVIOR JUST SO DUMBASS AMERICANS WON'T QUAKE IN FEAR!!!!

    I'm offended by your entire post. You claim you're against racism and unfair profiling, but you're deluding yourself. You are in favor of it. Admit it and own up to it, all o' yous! *shakes fist*

    Quote Originally Posted by southernbelle View Post
    How have you come to the conclusion that the facts demonstrate that this was not suspicious behavior? I don't know of anywhere where this behavior would NOT be considered irregular and suspicious.
    You only think it's "suspicious behavior" because they were Muslims. Period. Re-read the article again, but instead of "imam" insert the word "priest."

    I agree with Mrs. Dark. If I were on this flight and they were NOT removed, I would have removed myself. I am a frequent flyer and their behavior was not normal in any way. I firmly believe that these people were/are, by definition terrorists. No one will be able to convince me that they were not either trying to carry out an attack OR trying to incite terror in the passengers on the flight. Both are classified as terrorist activtiy.
    ^^ Now I know how George W. Bush got elected. Fear propaganda is alive and well I see. Seig Heil.

    Quote Originally Posted by pacific breeze View Post
    Well, your own government has expressed absolutely no interest in capturing bin Laden in years, so why all the fuss about someone who once worked with him? Remember, he's related to their great pals, the Saudi royalty.

    I flew out of Amsterdam back to Vancouver last year and I listened to a lot of loudmouth, American businessmen yelling non-stop about politics and Arabs and Europeans and how the only way to "teach them a lesson was to bomb the shit out of them." Etcetera/ad nauseum. They had been doing it at the airport, too, to the disgust of most everybody unfortunate enough to be near them, and I prayed they wouldn't be on our flight, but of course they were.

    I considered their behavior threatening, racist, disprespectful and hateful, and it was obviously making a lot of people uncomfortable. The flight attendants eventually refused to serve them any more alcohol, although they weren't demonstrably drunk, just stupid. But none of us demanded they be taken off a plane, even though they were making highly offensive comments generally and personally to passengers who didn't fit their idea of who should be allowed to fly on a plane.

    I ended up being one of them after I told them their obnoxious behavior was ruining my flight and asked them politely to be quiet. The response: "You're nothing but a fucking Canadian bitch so shut the fuck up." Charming -- I guess the fact that our leaders had the good sense not to fight a senseless and illegal war to make Halliburton richer really bugged their asses.

    You can be damn sure if those men had been Arabs, they would have been in a whole lot of trouble. But because they were white Americans, the rest of us had to endure their abuse for an entire international flight.
    Last edited by WickedHo; April 2nd, 2007 at 05:36 PM.

  8. #38
    Elite Member southernbelle's Avatar
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    Even if they were "priests," the behavior would have been suspicious. Asking for seatbelt extenders that they didn't need and placing them under the seats? How can that be considered normal? The positions they took after they (disregarding the rules) all cut the line and boarded with the first class passengers? Their affiliation with a group that is known to have strong terrorist ties? Their behavior warranted questioning and the airline took the appropriate measures. They also, according to one of my professors checked luggage that didn't have anything in it but I can't confirm the validity of that.

    The fact is, they weren't priests. You can't try to turn the tables on a situation by changing key factors in it and saying "but what if __________?" It's not racist or unreasonable to believe that a group of Muslim men are more likely to be Al Qaeda terrorists than a group of white men. It's actually a sheer fact.

  9. #39
    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by princesspink View Post
    Hmph.
    I was in a bitchy mood!
    Don't slap me, cause I'm not in the mood!

  10. #40
    Elite Member Picara's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by southernbelle View Post
    Even if they were "priests," the behavior would have been suspicious. Asking for seatbelt extenders that they didn't need and placing them under the seats? How can that be considered normal? The positions they took after they (disregarding the rules) all cut the line and boarded with the first class passengers? Their affiliation with a group that is known to have strong terrorist ties? Their behavior warranted questioning and the airline took the appropriate measures. They also, according to one of my professors checked luggage that didn't have anything in it but I can't confirm the validity of that.

    The fact is, they weren't priests. You can't try to turn the tables on a situation by changing key factors in it and saying "but what if __________?" It's not racist or unreasonable to believe that a group of Muslim men are more likely to be Al Qaeda terrorists than a group of white men. It's actually a sheer fact.
    I totally agree with your whole post. Perhaps everything else could be explained away, but as I posted previously, the thing with the seatbelt extenders would make me very suspicious. Why do that? Why request seatbelt extenders, then stow them under your seat? That's out of the ordinary behavior. Whether it's a group of priests or Muslim men, I'd have to report it.

  11. #41
    Elite Member MsDark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WickedHo View Post
    Don't Muslims pray a certain number of times each day? If so, and if not saying these prayers is tantamount to mortal sin, then who are you to say they should "nix out-loud chanting and prayers"? Such ill-founded, uneducated, naive judgments are precisely what leads to racism and theocentrism and xenophobia and mass hysteria. Good grief.

    Obviously, you're not religious, and none of those passengers that complained know a damn thing about the Muslim faith. NADA. Zilch.

    Incidentally, I'm not (as of the last 14 years) religious, but that doesn't mean I am uneducated, naive, yadadada (other big fancy ways of calling me bigoted) and know nothing about religion.

    I don't give a good goddamn (or allah/yahweh/buddah) WTF their religion is if they're deliberately chosing to call attention to themselves and either do not possess the common sense to know better or (more likely) are just so downright arrogant and 'in your face/you MUST accomodate me!' about their beliefs and forcing them on everyone else that they insist upon doing things out of the ordinary in a place where people are as vulnerable as a tube in the fucking air!

    They could be atheists for all I care. For the sake of safety (their own as much as anything else) if a small group of people want to engage in behaviors as a group or individually that are out of the ordinary that distract and call attention to themselves they need to charter their own flight or eschew the secular sphere that is public transportation unless they can press the pause button on their rituals or engage in them in a quiet and less ostentatious/obstrusive manner.

    And yes I will admit that it sucks for the religious that many perpetrators of violence, terrorism, etc. extremist behaviors use or twist religious faith to justify their acts. But that is who they need to be directing their ire toward. Not people who are simply scared because they see behavior that looks eerily similar to something a religious zealot who was ready to die for a cause might be compelled to.
    Last edited by MsDark; April 2nd, 2007 at 10:11 PM.
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  12. #42
    Hit By Ban Bus! pacific breeze's Avatar
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    Maybe they asked for the extenders because they didn't know if they would fit across their robes. When they realized they didn't need them, they put them under their seats. Makes sense to me.

  13. #43
    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
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    As I said on another post:
    We all profile to some degree whether we like it or not, and so will law enforcement. It's for the same reason that when a child is murdered or goes missing, the parents are the first usual suspects, followed by other family members and associates. The same reason that when a wife goes missing or ends up dead, especially if she's pregnant, the husband is 'person of interst' #1. Whether we like it or not, most of the suicide bombers and airplane bombers have been Muslim. Does that make all Muslims bombers? No, but that isn't the point anymore than it matters to state that not all parents kill their kids and not all husbands murder their pregnant wives.
    I'll add that I don't believe for a second that all or most men are rapists or serial killers, but I will choose not to get into an elevator, especially in a secluded area, with strange men. I will also make an effort not to walk right past a group of them when I am by myself and not in a highly visible situation. I would feel very uncomfortable in a bar where there were only a handful of women and many, many men (too many memories of The Accused). I don't care if that seems paranoid.
    They really aren't. It's just the extreme fundamentalist crazies that want to kill you. Which is why fundies suck, be they Muslim or Christian
    Wicked Ho, that's still amounts to millions of people who want you dead.
    Originally Posted by pacific breeze
    If those men had been white fundamentalists preaching hate, nobody would have batted an eye
    That is such a bs statement I don't even know where to begin. Are you psychic? How in the hell do you know how people would have reacted to hearing that from them? Most decent people, and I do beleive that most people are, would have raised hell over that. Political correctness would have dictated that that not be allowed to occur publically without consequence, if nothing else. Hell, they probably would've been charged with a hate crime! Since we're being so judgemental, why do I get the impression that you would do some profiling of your own if you came across 2 guys in a pickup with a Dale Jr bumper sticker and a gun rack in the back? They just might be no-frills country people, but my guess is to you they'd be KKK members until they proved otherwise.

    Sorry for the italics, my button is stuck.

  14. #44
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    ^ Lol!
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  15. #45
    Hit By Ban Bus! WickedHo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by southernbelle View Post
    It's not racist or unreasonable to believe that a group of Muslim men are more likely to be Al Qaeda terrorists than a group of white men. It's actually a sheer fact.
    This is the exact definition of racial profiling. I am vehemently against it, in all its forms.

    Suspecting a Muslim of being a terrorist just because he/she is a Muslim IS racist. And that's what all of your posts condone: racism. And xenophobia. Sorry, but them's facts. Now, my dear southernbelle, thankfully, I am familiar with you, and I know you're not really a bigot. You've just been scarified by Dubya into believing any and all brown men with pointy noses are trying to kill you.

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