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Thread: Showdown! Unions to take on conservative groups health care town halls

  1. #31
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    ^^I knew it. The Feds don't play when you try to incite violence like that.

  2. #32
    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha View Post
    Arianna then asked Kingston to explain why he had posted a photo on Flickr of him holding a t-shirt which read "R.I.P The U.S. Constitution" taken at a health care town hall last week. Kingston defended the photo, saying that he was simply trying to help inspire a young activist who had approached him.

    Who gives a shit why he put the pic on his flikr account? Why was that important enough to press him on? Hell I would put up such a photo, it means absolutely nothing in this context.
    Here is what he should have been pressed on:

    Kingston, however, played down the idea that there was an outpouring of anger at the recent health care town halls, saying that he had hosted 11 of them and that he didn't see any "hate-mongering."

    Of course not, you jackanapes. You are hosting anti reform town halls and liberals/progressives don't use violence to disrupt the discourse of others.

    See what he did there? By piously claiming HIS REPUBLICAN town hall meeting was all sweetness and light, and no one challenged him on it, he was allowed to give the impression that DEMOCRATS were the cause of the disruptions at their own town halls

    Oh my fucking God. Do you seriously think liberals aren't capable of being involved in radical, violent protest? You don't know of any radicals who've, say,bombed buildings?
    Only the good die young.........................
    bitches like me live forever!!!!!!!!!!!!

  3. #33
    Elite Member Fluffy's Avatar
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    Crumpet, are you talking about current people or things that happened during the Vietnam War?

  4. #34
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crumpet View Post
    Oh my fucking God. Do you seriously think liberals aren't capable of being involved in radical, violent protest? You don't know of any radicals who've, say,bombed buildings?
    Timothy McVeigh? Right wing nutjob. How about abortion clinic bombings? Right wing nutjobs. Religious fanatics who bomb buildings are usually right wing nutjobs too.

    and before we start in with reichstag fires and the nazis, let me remind you that the National Socialist Workers Party was that in name only.. their brand of fascism was actually far right corporatism, the merging of the state and business entities incorporating the very far right fun time concept of continual war.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crumpet View Post
    Oh my fucking God. Do you seriously think liberals aren't capable of being involved in radical, violent protest? You don't know of any radicals who've, say,bombed buildings?
    Which liberals would those be? Can you name some?

  6. #36
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    im watching these retards at these town hall meetings..

    1) they havent actually read the bill

    2) they're all white

    3) all they do is scream about freedom and socialism

    they're ignorant, racist rednecks just venting. Period. There's no discussion. It's just mindless fucktards.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  7. #37
    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    Crumpet, are you talking about current people or things that happened during the Vietnam War?
    I am speaking in general, global terms about the dangers of either ideology taken to extreme and being in power. Throw religion into the mix (as far right wingers do) and you see many of the bigoted, rights reducing efforts like we have here. But I think that throughout history, it is safe to say that Lenin/Soviets, Communist China, Cuba, Laos, Cambodia, North Korea all have a demonstrated track record of the destructiveness of the far left communist regimes. Domestic groups like Weather underground had no problems bombing for their cause either.

    As far as this health care debate goes I'm frustrated that so many see it in black or white, as though we either have it as it is now (refusing to acknowledge the pitfalls and shortcomings) or else we have the single payer system like in Canada (which also has major issues that some would like to minimize, especially as it pertains to catastrophic illness). Truly, France has a mixed system and can demonstrate the best overall health outcomes of any country. As I said in another thread: we are Americans and creating stuff is what we do. We can do better than either option and either way we do not need to be rushing decisions about something this important without going over every single word with a fine toothed comb.
    Only the good die young.........................
    bitches like me live forever!!!!!!!!!!!!

  8. #38
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Americans don't create anything anymore, another myth. They farm out the work for other countries to do for pennies.

    You don't MAKE anything anymore. What manufacturing sector do you have left?

    Lastly, on what planet is some kind of dictatorial communist regime going to spring up in the US? Give me a break.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by crumpet View Post
    I am speaking in general, global terms about the dangers of either ideology taken to extreme and being in power. Throw religion into the mix (as far right wingers do) and you see many of the bigoted, rights reducing efforts like we have here. But I think that throughout history, it is safe to say that Lenin/Soviets, Communist China, Cuba, Laos, Cambodia, North Korea all have a demonstrated track record of the destructiveness of the far left communist regimes. Domestic groups like Weather underground had no problems bombing for their cause either.

    As far as this health care debate goes I'm frustrated that so many see it in black or white, as though we either have it as it is now (refusing to acknowledge the pitfalls and shortcomings) or else we have the single payer system like in Canada (which also has major issues that some would like to minimize, especially as it pertains to catastrophic illness). Truly, France has a mixed system and can demonstrate the best overall health outcomes of any country. As I said in another thread: we are Americans and creating stuff is what we do. We can do better than either option and either way we do not need to be rushing decisions about something this important without going over every single word with a fine toothed comb.
    crumpet, we just had this discussion and you agreed distinctions should be made yet here you are conflating liberals and North Korea?? By your reasoning MLK, a classical liberal who advocated and practiced non-violently confronting the status quo is the same as The Weather Underground. (who were anarchists, btw)

  10. #40
    Elite Member Mr. Authority's Avatar
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    Now they're resorting to God and Swatiskas:

    Health care overhaul at town halls Tuesday, and one lawmaker said a swastika was spray-painted at his office as debate turned to noisy confrontation over President Barack Obama's plan. The president himself was treated more respectfully.

    "You'll be gone, by God the bureaucrats will still be here," one man told Sen. Arlen Specter, D-Pa., at a town hall in Lebanon, Pa.

    "If they don't let us vent our frustrations out, they will have a revolution," Mary Ann Fieser of Hillsboro, Mo., told Sen. Claire McCaskill at her Missouri health care forum.

    McCaskill admonished the rowdy crowd of some 1,500.

    "I don't understand this rudeness," she said. "I honestly don't get it."

    The bitter sessions underscored the challenge for the administration as it tries to win over an increasingly skeptical public on the costly and far-reaching task of revamping the nation's health care system. Desperate to stop a hardening opposition, the White House created a Web site to dispel what it says are smears and House Democrats set up a health care "war room" out of Majority Leader Steny Hoyer's office to help lawmakers handle questions.

    Obama answered his critics indirectly. At his town hall in Portsmouth, N.H., he urged Americans to ignore those who try to "scare and mislead the American people," telling a cordial audience, "For all the scare tactics out there, what is truly scary is if we do nothing."

    Though his popularity is slipping in polls, Obama himself is repeatedly trying to make the case to the public for passage of comprehensive legislation this year to bring down costs and extend coverage to many of the 50 million uninsured.

    Obama's questions bore no resemblance to what Specter got.

    At a crowded community college in Pennsylvania, Specter heard from speaker after speaker who accused him of trampling on their constitutional rights, adding to the federal deficit or allowing government bureaucrats to take over health care.

    "My children and grandchildren are going to pay for this," said another.

    "One day God will stand before you and judge you!" shouted a man before security guards approached and he left the room.

    Specter gamely tried to explain his positions — and on occasion mediate among shouting constituents — saying he wouldn't vote for a bill that adds to the deficit. He also said he wouldn't support a bill that extends coverage to illegal immigrants. None of the bills in Congress would provide health insurance to illegal immigrants.

    One woman tried to make it personal for Specter, alleging that the Democrats' plan would not provide care to a man in his 70s with cancer, like Specter had.

    "You're here because of the plan we have now," she said.

    Specter, 79, who has battled cancer twice since 2005, showed some heat at that.

    "Well, you're just not right," he said. He called her claim a "vicious, malicious" rumor.

    The passions of the crowd illustrated the problems for Democratic lawmakers around the country as they try to use the monthlong August recess to promote Obama's agenda. There's not a single plan to promote, which Specter later told reporters made his job harder, along with the complexity of the issue. The House bill is more than 1,000 pages.

    And, Specter said, "The objectors have gotten ahead of the curve." Asked why, he cited talk radio, among other factors.

    In Georgia, Democratic Rep. David Scott's staff arrived at his Smyrna, Ga., office outside Atlanta on Tuesday morning to find a large, black swastika spray-painted on a sign out front bearing his name. The vandalism occurred roughly a week after Scott was involved in a contentious argument over health care at a community meeting.

    Scott, who is black, said he also has received mail in recent days that used N-word references to him and that characterized Obama as a Marxist.

    "We have got to make sure that the symbol of the swastika does not win, that the racial hatred that's bubbling up does not win this debate," Scott said in a telephone interview. "That's what is bubbling up with all of this. There's so much hatred out there for President Obama."

    In Missouri, McCaskill was peppered with questions about health care for veterans, seniors and illegal immigrants and provisions funding abortions. One man was arrested after allegedly taking and ripping a sign from a woman that showed a picture of Rosa Parks sitting on a bus with the words, "First Lady of Civil Rights."

    Someone shouted out that they didn't trust McCaskill.

    "Beg your pardon ... you don't trust me?" McCaskill said. "I don't know what else I can do."

    Specter said that in a long life in politics he hadn't seen anything like what he witnessed Tuesday and at a town hall last weekend that turned even uglier.

    "There is more anger in America today than at any time I can remember," Specter said.
    Lawmakers faces angry crowds on health care - Yahoo! News

  11. #41
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    The stark unholy tragedy of it all is that the 'reform' Obama is proposing is anemic and mealy mouthed, totally corrupted by Big Pharma, the insurance companies, and the medical establishment.

  12. #42
    Elite Member Fluffy's Avatar
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    "One day God will stand before you and judge you!" shouted a man before security guards approached and he left the room.
    Fucking crazy.

  13. #43
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    I was watching the guy on Hardball who took a gun outside of the Obama town hall in N.H. Not only was the guy crazy enough to wear the gun openly on his ankle, but he was going on about how if a 1000 people showed up they'd all be safer.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha View Post
    The stark unholy tragedy of it all is that the 'reform' Obama is proposing is anemic and mealy mouthed, totally corrupted by Big Pharma, the insurance companies, and the medical establishment.
    The ideal healthcare reform would be a single-payer system, which wouldn't be effective alongside for-profit insurance/drug companies. Which means you would have to get rid of the drug & insurance companies for a true single-payer system to be effective. Which isn't going to happen.

    If Obama were pushing a true single-payer system he wouldn't remotely get close to having it pass, and he'd have more than just the blue dog Dems to contend with.

  14. #44
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    a good comment from americablog

    Logic and facts don't count when the other side refuses to acknowledge reality, when they just flat-out lie, lie, and lie again.

    The other thing I'm seeing go on is a kind of bizarro projection, where everything they accuse us of doing is a baseline strategy for them -- which they deny they're doing.

    You can't debate or negotiate in good faith with the irrational or the mendacious. An example:

    Us - "Okay, we understand you have some concerns, let's negotiate."

    Them - "Look what you're trying to cram down our throats! Traitor! Villain! Why won't you negotiate?!"

    Us - "C'mon, you want a debate, let's have one."

    Them - "Liar liar liar! Why won't you let us have a debate!"

    Us - "We're here, we're trying have a discu--"

    Them - "Shut up, shut up, shutup!!!!! You're killing America! You want to kill my grandma! Obama isn't a citizen!"

    Us - "Hang on, we--"

    Them - "Nazi! Liar! Traitor!"
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  15. #45
    Elite Member Mr. Authority's Avatar
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    I saw footage of a town hall meeting that was held in a another town in my state. One of the crazies that yelled had a VERY thinck Southern accent (to go with a very THICK gut and chin). I know we got some major accents here in MI but this protester sounded like a pastor from Bumfuck, Arkansas. Whoever the groups are for pulling people from other places to drive and protest these meetings need to get a life and some sanity. They make me sick with their "God this, and Obama that" STFU and die if you won't want new healthcare!!!

    If Obama were pushing a true single-payer system he wouldn't remotely get close to having it pass, and he'd have more than just the blue dog Dems to contend with.
    THe only way a true single-payer system would pass here in the US would be for big pharma to go under first. If that happened, the economy would have to be at a free-for-all depression wise. Meaning for change to happen, we have to lose everything first. A testament to how much this country has it;'s ball tightened due to the fucking corps.

    *sigh*

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