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Thread: Screw you neocon fundie weirdos! - a rant

  1. #91
    Elite Member Lobelia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Screw you neocon fundie weirdos! - a rant

    Quote Originally Posted by pacific breeze
    But as you may recall, Rosie the Riveter was forced to give up her her job so that a man "who really needed it" could have it.
    Good point, and lots of Rosies were forced to go to work to begin with, since so many men had gone to war. Not much choice. Personally, I'd like more choices than A) The Kitchen, or B) The Factory.

    What's behind door number 3?
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    Emma Peel aka Pacific Breeze aka Wilde1 aka gogodancer aka maribou

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  2. #92
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Screw you neocon fundie weirdos! - a rant

    I agree with this somewhat. "Skyrocketing mortality rate" might be an exaggerated projection, but we won't know unless it happens.
    Erm, early 20th century, and 19th century are good indicators. The mortality rate would increase, secret medical practices, unregulated, would pop up.. no accountibility, nothing... you want to talk about shady, that's shady.

    If you're right, you've only proven ME right, in that no one has proven exactly WHEN human life begins.
    Nobody knows, which is why the "human life starts at conception!" thing is also bunk.

    I'm still waiting for you to point out the use of religion in my statements, btw.
    Well you've OBVIOUSLY kept it out of these statements, muhdear You had advance warning!

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobelia
    Good point, and lots of Rosies were forced to go to work to begin with, since so many men had gone to war. Not much choice. Personally, I'd like more choices than A) The Kitchen, or B) The Factory.

    What's behind door number 3?
    A brand new 1981 Buick Skylark!
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  3. #93
    Hit By Ban Bus! DirtyPool's Avatar
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    Default Re: Screw you neocon fundie weirdos! - a rant

    Quote Originally Posted by pacific breeze
    But as you may recall, Rosie the Riveter was forced to give up her her job so that a man "who really needed it" could have it. Then the 50s, which were arguably the most repressive decade on record for women in industrialized nations in the 20th Century, were ushered in. Women's greatest happiness was supposed to come from cooking, cleaning, buying kitchen gadgets and being subservient to men.

    I don't think much of any society, anywhere, that negates more than half its human potential by making women stay home and do unpaid labour. If a woman or a man wants to stay home, that's up to them, but most people prefer a choice.

    How is Gloria Steinem responsible for allowing unqualified women into the military? She has made a huge impact on women whether you agree with her or not. Every movement has its camp followers -- that's hardly her doing.
    There are lots of idiots on both sides of the political spectrum as far as I can tell.

    Your mother sounds like a fine woman and someone to look up to as a role model. I tend to agree that people of either gender should succeed or fail on their merits -- not artificial criterion or legislation -- but when industry doesn't regulate itself, sometimes it has to be done for them (equal work for equal pay, etc.)
    I still disagree about Gloria Steinem but I will ponder over your post for a little while because you made some good points.

  4. #94
    Elite Member Lobelia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Screw you neocon fundie weirdos! - a rant

    Erm, early 20th century, and 19th century are good indicators. The mortality rate would increase, secret medical practices, unregulated, would pop up.. no accountibility, nothing... you want to talk about shady, that's shady.
    I'm not saying that this wouldn't happen. I just question the word "skyrocketing" because people do know things now that they didn't back then.

    Nobody knows, which is why the "human life starts at conception!" thing is also bunk.
    Just because we don't know the answer doesn't mean there IS NO ANSWER. Somebody is right. However, you keep calling the other guy wrong when you don't even know if you're wrong yourself!

    Well you've OBVIOUSLY kept it out of these statements, muhdear You had advance warning!
    I defy anybody on this board to find an abortion-related post of mine that mentioned religion in support of my argument. Or God in general, for that matter. The fact that I've spent so much time going back & forth with you on this topic, and you think I involve religion, gives me the sudden realization that you don't read what I say. I feel kinda foolish here.

    But... I keep blabbin'....

    I am no religious expert, so Bible verse-flinging is out of the question. I have probably touched on morality & ethics, but those are issues that are intertwined yet separate from religion.
    "I've cautiously embraced jeggings"
    Emma Peel aka Pacific Breeze aka Wilde1 aka gogodancer aka maribou

    Yip, yip, yip in your tiny indignation. Bark furiously on, lady dog.

  5. #95
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Screw you neocon fundie weirdos! - a rant

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobelia
    I'm not saying that this wouldn't happen. I just question the word "skyrocketing" because people do know things now that they didn't back then.
    The advances in medicine would be offset by larger population and more abortions as they happen now.

    Just because we don't know the answer doesn't mean there IS NO ANSWER. Somebody is right. However, you keep calling the other guy wrong when you don't even know if you're wrong yourself!
    I'm not saying people are wrong for thinking life begins at whatever point, but am I going to legislate my personal morality on the subject on other people? Nope. That's the difference, i wont take that away from them.

    I defy anybody on this board to find an abortion-related post of mine that mentioned religion in support of my argument. Or God in general, for that matter. The fact that I've spent so much time going back & forth with you on this topic, and you think I involve religion, gives me the sudden realization that you don't read what I say. I feel kinda foolish here.
    *snerk* I read EVERYTHING people say, why do you think i answer point by point?

    But... I keep blabbin'....
    That ya do.

    I am no religious expert, so Bible verse-flinging is out of the question. I have probably touched on morality & ethics, but those are issues that are intertwined yet separate from religion.
    the morality and ethics are religious tinged, they usually tend to be unless you're a rabid humanist.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  6. #96
    Elite Member Lobelia's Avatar
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    Default Re: Screw you neocon fundie weirdos! - a rant

    The advances in medicine would be offset by larger population and more abortions as they happen now.
    Now you're talking about a relative increase, in correlation with the population. The point would be the skyrocketing RATE which is something else, altogether.

    I'm not saying people are wrong for thinking life begins at whatever point, but am I going to legislate my personal morality on the subject on other people?
    This point is not about morality, at all, at least not for me. I am genuinely interested in the science of this particular point. Show me the science. And you DO say people are wrong, you just said it was bunk. I believe in life at conception because it makes sense to me, not because some church told me to believe it.

    *snerk* I read EVERYTHING people say, why do you think i answer point by point?
    Then you must immediately dump your memory banks, because I do NOT incorporate religion in to abortion discussions. You are tripping up on this point, because it shoots an inconvenient hole in your stereotyping.

    the morality and ethics are religious tinged, they usually tend to be unless you're a rabid humanist.
    Religious tinged? Huh? Atheists cannot have ethics or morality? I had no idea.
    "I've cautiously embraced jeggings"
    Emma Peel aka Pacific Breeze aka Wilde1 aka gogodancer aka maribou

    Yip, yip, yip in your tiny indignation. Bark furiously on, lady dog.

  7. #97
    Hit By Ban Bus! DirtyPool's Avatar
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    Default Re: Screw you neocon fundie weirdos! - a rant

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobelia
    Then you must immediately dump your memory banks, because I do NOT incorporate religion in to abortion discussions. You are tripping up on this point, because it shoots an inconvenient hole in your stereotyping.
    Oooooh that's gotta hurt! A straight up bitch slap.

  8. #98
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Screw you neocon fundie weirdos! - a rant

    Quote Originally Posted by Lobelia
    Now you're talking about a relative increase, in correlation with the population. The point would be the skyrocketing RATE which is something else, altogether.
    Skyrocketing in comparison with the mortality rates at present, yes. Same amount of abortions, differing medical care, more abortions per capita than say 1890 = skyrocketing.

    This point is not about morality, at all, at least not for me. I am genuinely interested in the science of this particular point. Show me the science. And you DO say people are wrong, you just said it was bunk. I believe in life at conception because it makes sense to me, not because some church told me to believe it.
    It's still bunk because it's a belief backed up by nothing but opinion. Same as "life doesn't start till yer born". How do you quantify what is essentially a matter of opinion? When you have conclusive evidence either way, it stops being an opinion.

    We don't have that, so what we have is "belief". However, the forced pregnancy nazis assert that their BELIEF is indeed fact, based mostly on the hallucination that Jebus spelled it out in their cereal some morning.

    Then you must immediately dump your memory banks, because I do NOT incorporate religion in to abortion discussions. You are tripping up on this point, because it shoots an inconvenient hole in your stereotyping.
    No, I'm not tripping up on anything. I just can't prove it right at present because it requires some digging and i'm still at blippin work!

    Religious tinged? Huh? Atheists cannot have ethics or morality? I had no idea.
    I said MOSTLY, dear. Especially coming from the direction of the Forced-Pregnancy nazis.

    i must be off now, i have some financial planning to do at home. I'll be on later to dispell your silly sky-fairy myths, dearies!
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  9. #99
    Elite Member moomies's Avatar
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    Default Re: Screw you neocon fundie weirdos! - a rant

    It's still bunk because it's a belief backed up by nothing but opinion. Same as "life doesn't start till yer born". How do you quantify what is essentially a matter of opinion? When you have conclusive evidence either way, it stops being an opinion.
    I don't know if I would call it bunk but I agree with Grimm here. Some say it starts at conception, others argue when the fetus can feel pain/have emotions/brain function, some others believe it's when the being is viable outside of womb etc etc, many differing OPINIONS that are subjective. There are already scientific facts on how the fetus develops and ppl can only draw their own conclusion on it but there doesn't seem to be any consensus.

    If you think it's crazy, you ain't seen a thing. Just wait until we're goin down in flames.

  10. #100
    Elite Member WhoAmI's Avatar
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    Default Re: Screw you neocon fundie weirdos! - a rant

    BTW, most of the statements that DP attributed to Sanger were either said by someone else or were taken completely out of context. And, as far as I know, she never promoted abortion, but only birth control.

  11. #101
    Hit By Ban Bus! DirtyPool's Avatar
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    Default Re: Screw you neocon fundie weirdos! - a rant

    ^ yeah well here's Margaret Sanger in her own words:

    http://dianedew.com/sanger.htm

  12. #102
    Elite Member WhoAmI's Avatar
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    Default Re: Screw you neocon fundie weirdos! - a rant

    Again, taken out of context by a pro-life webpage. Your source is completely biased and absurd. Notice how they are little, chopped-up phrases, rather than full quotes. You really need to find some new material. The crap in the webpage you provided has been refuted by actual researchers who read her material.

  13. #103
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Default Re: Screw you neocon fundie weirdos! - a rant

    oh SNAP! That's gotta hurt!

    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  14. #104
    Elite Member WhoAmI's Avatar
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    Default Re: Screw you neocon fundie weirdos! - a rant

    DP, perhaps you should check this out and actually think about employing it the next time you're presented with "facts".

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_thinking

  15. #105
    Elite Member moomies's Avatar
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    Default Re: Screw you neocon fundie weirdos! - a rant

    ^^ that's something you learn from leftie profs at a university...it's pretty much frowned upon

    If you think it's crazy, you ain't seen a thing. Just wait until we're goin down in flames.

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