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Thread: Schwarzenegger Vetoes Bill on Gay Protections in Textbooks

  1. #46
    Super Moderator NoDayButToday's Avatar
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    I think Dorian Gray is pretty standard for high school lit, but some teachers take the opportunity to talk about Wilde and some choose to ignore it. I was lucky and had a teacher that actually taught us about the authors we read regardless of controversy

  2. #47
    Hit By Ban Bus! pacific breeze's Avatar
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    *sigh* Education is supposed to be about being exposed to all kinds of ideas and to use critical thinking skills to evaluate them. Instead, it's too often become a process of spoon feeding and omission.

  3. #48
    Super Moderator NoDayButToday's Avatar
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    Some teachers have their own agendas and unfortunately the students have to suffer because of it. My teacher not only told us about it, but he gave us copies of some of the things written at the time (both by Wilde and his critics) so that we could have a well-rounded look at the author.

  4. #49
    Gold Member ohmygoodness's Avatar
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    I never learned any Oscar Wilde in highschool. Damn my school board, and their bigoted prejudiced executive!

  5. #50
    Elite Member moomies's Avatar
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    me either Ohmy. I went to a crap high school in South Delta... (Tswassen).

    But when I lived in NZ, I had a gay English teacher and he gave us a lesson in gender studies, taught us the masculine bias in English language etc and I wrote a paper on homosexuality in screenplay for his class. This was in form 5 (hmm grade 10).

    I also had a few gay profs at uni and I greatly appreciate their influence on my education. A gay English instructor at Kwantlen, got to read some lesbian literature, poems and short stories. One prof I consider as my mentor at SFU, she's a lesbian and a PoMo feminist. Took 4 classes by her, one of which was directed studies (one on one instruction).

    I think in my case, my teachers and professors' sexual orientation mattered and influenced their teaching material, I'm very thankful for that because it exposed me to diversity and more ways of perceiving and understanding the world even though I'm straight.

    If you think it's crazy, you ain't seen a thing. Just wait until we're goin down in flames.

  6. #51
    Gold Member ohmygoodness's Avatar
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    I haven't had a gay prof yet, but my best friend's English prof last year was gay and he so far has been her favourite professor! This year I have no gay profs (that I know of, of course), but every single one has an accent! Lol. 2 are British (and one ironically is my French prof), one is Bulgarian (and is my German prof!), one is Chinese, and one is Nepalese!

  7. #52
    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
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    ^^It is nice to see such diversity(of all kinds) in higher education.

  8. #53
    Gold Member Delphinium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sojiita View Post
    You are missing the point entirely. We are not talking about sexual acts..we are talking about sexual orientation. I Was well aware I was gay at 11..but it was many years after that when I actually had sex. But I was just as gay at 11 as I am now. Nobody is advocating talking about sex or sex acts..
    It is important to mention sexual orientation when talking about historical figures..the omission of such information is discriminatory to gay people..and to gay children who need to know the truth and that there are gay role models out there. That given, I would also have to say that if someone is an historical figure and is/was gay and was infamous rather than famous..the same thing should apply and the sexual orientation mentioned(as in Jeffrey Dahmer..not a good role model but gay. It is only fair to mention the good with the bad.

    To not mention sexual orientation(notice I said orientation...which has NOTHING to do with sex acts..someone can be totally abstinent and still have a gay sexual orientation) is in the same league as not mentioning race, ethnicity, etc. In a reasonable society we would not have to mention these things because people would not have been marginalized in the first place. You have to realize that only a few short decades ago it was like we did not exist..we were never offically talked about or anything. We were not mentioned in polite society. We need to be mentioned to counter that time in the not so distant past when it was like we offically did not exist. I also am not a spring chicken and I can tell you that most gay(or even suspected gay) teens went through hell in school 20, 30, 40 years ago. I think what you describe when in school was the exception, not the rule. Also not being gay you only know what YOU PERCEIVED AT THAT TIME..did these people actually tell you they were not subject to discrimination..or is that simply your limited perception?(unless they were good friends you hung around with alot).

    I am not talking about making sexual orientation a focus..I am simply saying do not intentionally omit it. Of course schools should focus on the basics. I also think that one of the basics is history..and part of history in this country is racism and homophobia..and it does have a place in the classroom for that reason. If you omit that an historical figure had a gay sexual orientation..you are contributing to the marginalization of gay people. It is as simple as that.
    actually a couple were very good friends of mine, so I know they were not teased or treated bad. And I lived in a small town, so if there was ever a chance at red-neck mistreatment, it was in that town!

    I do think that sexual orientation is a choice, one can have desires that are all over the map, but to act on them is totally a choice.

    Anyway, I don't think a person's sexual orientation should be mentioned in a school textbook, there just isn't any viable reason for it period. ESPECIALLY if that person did not self-identify in public during their lifetime.

    And by the logic you are using, we are marginalizing straight people as well, if we fail to point out that they were straight.

    it is simply ridiculous to classify people by sexual orientation.

    Her vocabulary was as bad as, like, whatever.

  9. #54
    Gold Member ohmygoodness's Avatar
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    i think you should read what noday wrote. it would address some of the points you just made.

  10. #55
    Elite Member moomies's Avatar
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    Don't you get how heterosexuality is the norm in our society? It's not going to marginalize heteros, this is about DIVERSITY, INCLUSIVITY AND REPRESENTATION!



    Inclusivity

    Explanation

    Inclusivity describes the degree to which non-dominant groups are represented in classroom practices by participation. Non-dominant groups are identified in relation to broad societal-level dimensions of social inclusion/exclusion.
    Lack of inclusivity is apparent when the students' backgrounds are ignored and they are treated as a homogenous group. This often results in some groups being unable or unwilling to contribute.

    Continuum of practice
    1. No participation of non-dominant social groups.
    2. Several instances of non-dominant social group participation.
    3. Participation of non-dominant social groups for all, or nearly all, of the lesson.
    http://education.qld.gov.au/corporat...fer/dif2a.html

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  11. #56
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delphinium View Post
    actually a couple were very good friends of mine, so I know they were not teased or treated bad. And I lived in a small town, so if there was ever a chance at red-neck mistreatment, it was in that town!

    I do think that sexual orientation is a choice, one can have desires that are all over the map, but to act on them is totally a choice.

    Anyway, I don't think a person's sexual orientation should be mentioned in a school textbook, there just isn't any viable reason for it period. ESPECIALLY if that person did not self-identify in public during their lifetime.

    And by the logic you are using, we are marginalizing straight people as well, if we fail to point out that they were straight.

    it is simply ridiculous to classify people by sexual orientation.
    assuming for a second that it is a choice, is it worse for a heterosexual to act on an attraction than a homosexual? is a homosexual less entitled to act on it than a straight person? is it morally wrong? do you consider homosexuality a deviance or abnormal?
    Last edited by sputnik; September 11th, 2006 at 04:03 AM.
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  12. #57
    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    assuming for a second that it is a choice, is it worst for a heterosexual to act on an attraction than a homosexual? is a homosexual less entitled to act on it than a straight person? is it morally wrong? do you consider homosexuality a deviance or abnormal?
    It is hopeless to even talk to her (delphinium). I can tell her again and again and again that sexual orientation is not a choice, and provide all kinds of evidence to back this up-but she has her mind made up and is simply not receptive to any other information other than what she already believes. I believe the word 'closeminded' would apply for her. She cannot even distinguish between orientation(having the 'desires' as she puts it) and 'acting on them'(which would imply sexual acts..not orientation.) She is a waste of time and effort.

  13. #58
    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sojiita View Post
    ^^why don't you go commit suicide and do us all a favor?
    I apologize to Delphinium for this remark.

  14. #59
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    ^^ LOL that sounds like someone forced you to apologize!

  15. #60
    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScooBeth View Post
    ^^ LOL that sounds like someone forced you to apologize!
    Nobody forced me to apologize..I had thought about it before. Seeing how things had gone in the Anna Nicole thread made me realize that what I had said was out ofl line. I can disagree with someone without resulting to saying such things like asking them to commit suicide. Also I was not being serious of course, but it still was kind of a vicious thing to say over a disagreement. I may disagree with her stand on certain issue, but I do not think she hates gays, and I do not think she deserved that particular comment of mine.

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