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Thread: Schwarzenegger Vetoes Bill on Gay Protections in Textbooks

  1. #31
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    being gay or being straight is the same as being blonde or brown-haired or being white or asian. you don't see people suggesting there be separate schools for asian, black or white kids do you? and if there are, they are called bigots. it's the same thing for anyone that wants to keep gays out of schools and that wants no mention made of sexual orientation or that compares gays to paedophiles, or that thinks being gay is a choice. they are bigots, pure and simple.
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

  2. #32
    Super Moderator NoDayButToday's Avatar
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    Don't worry Sojiita, like moomies said, you still have us feminists and all the other members of the board who believe in equal rights for ALL. You won't be fighting that battle alone whether or not Grimm is here.

  3. #33
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    Who the hell here doesn't believe in equal rights for all? Of course gays should be treated like everyone else. As in no one should care if you're gay or not.

  4. #34
    Gold Member Delphinium's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sojiita View Post
    Sorry I am feeling like shit today/tonight..horrible sinus problems..I should not have accused you like I did.

    If gay students were accepted and treated like other students there would be no need for seperate schools. I say let the bigots shell out the bucks for seperate schools if they and their spawn cannot treat gay students like human beings. Just mentioning that someone is gay and did something is not different than mentioning that someone was black and did something(the textbook thing). Of course I guess the person in question would have had to have made in clear they were gay..I think that is where some of the problems lie..alot of historical figures are believed to be gay..and in many case there is evidence..but without an actual acknowledgement/confirmation from that person..it is really just speculation.

    *I am just a little on edge because of the trolling on here in the past week..and I sense that Delphinium(true to her nature of posting on here) may very well be taking Grimm's ban as an excuse to go on an antigay crusade with impunity..and I am not gonna sit by and let her do it without some comments of me own.*
    nope, not taking Grimm's absence as a time to crusade. I actually miss Grimm (as irritating as he is, he has a certain flair that I admire grudgingly).

    Please odn't misunderstand, I have no problem with homosexuals, I don't want or condone them being mistreated or discriminated against, but there is a HUGE difference between being discriminated against, and being elevated to special status just because they happen to be gay.

    I don't want to see ANY references to a person's private sexual life in a textbook, whether it is straight, gay, bi, etc. there is NO reason to include that information.

    And for some who claim that so much crap is going on in schools, let me tell ya, I went to high school OVER 20 years ago, (yes dinosaurs were roaming the earth) and there were a few kids who definitely were totally gay (male & female). And they were not picked on etc. in fact a couple were quite popular. And kids today are probably more tolerant today than back then.

    Maybe if people would just live their life and not try to force it onto others, there would be less friction over-all.

    Schools need to stick to the basics, teach kids how to read,write, etc. and leave ALL social programming out of it.

    Leave that up to parents, community, church etc. that is where that responsibility lies

    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    being gay or being straight is the same as being blonde or brown-haired or being white or asian. you don't see people suggesting there be separate schools for asian, black or white kids do you? and if there are, they are called bigots. it's the same thing for anyone that wants to keep gays out of schools and that wants no mention made of sexual orientation or that compares gays to paedophiles, or that thinks being gay is a choice. they are bigots, pure and simple.
    you are mixing apples and oranges here, being gay IS different than race. Gay sex is a behavior one can choose to participate in or not participate in. One cannot choose the amount of melanin in their skin.

    There is lots of junk science out there which makes all kinds of claims in relation to behaviors, some want to blame everything on genetics, but there is no real proof at all, just theories at this point.

    I do not believe being gay and being a pedophile are the same, however, both behaviors are a choice. Same as being a heterosexual person who is promiscous, again behavior one chooses to engage in.

    And you are wrong to say people want gays kept out of schools. I don't care about that, each person has a right to go to school. What I am against is adding information in regards to sexual activity of people in textbooks.

    There is no reason to do it other than to push an agenda which is social engineering and has NO place in education.

    Now, I'm STILL waiting for someone to cough up a derogatory reference from a high school textbook in regards to someone's homosexuality etc.

    And I also believe it to be wrong to label someone as homosexual who did NOT identify themselves openly as that during their lifetime. Posthumous outing is wrong.

    Her vocabulary was as bad as, like, whatever.

  5. #35
    Gold Member ohmygoodness's Avatar
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    It's also a choice to have heterosexual sex in that case.

  6. #36
    Hit By Ban Bus! pacific breeze's Avatar
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    Yes, exactly.

  7. #37
    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Delphinium View Post
    nope, not taking Grimm's absence as a time to crusade. I actually miss Grimm (as irritating as he is, he has a certain flair that I admire grudgingly).

    Please odn't misunderstand, I have no problem with homosexuals, I don't want or condone them being mistreated or discriminated against, but there is a HUGE difference between being discriminated against, and being elevated to special status just because they happen to be gay.

    I don't want to see ANY references to a person's private sexual life in a textbook, whether it is straight, gay, bi, etc. there is NO reason to include that information.

    And for some who claim that so much crap is going on in schools, let me tell ya, I went to high school OVER 20 years ago, (yes dinosaurs were roaming the earth) and there were a few kids who definitely were totally gay (male & female). And they were not picked on etc. in fact a couple were quite popular. And kids today are probably more tolerant today than back then.

    Maybe if people would just live their life and not try to force it onto others, there would be less friction over-all.

    Schools need to stick to the basics, teach kids how to read,write, etc. and leave ALL social programming out of it.

    Leave that up to parents, community, church etc. that is where that responsibility lies



    you are mixing apples and oranges here, being gay IS different than race. Gay sex is a behavior one can choose to participate in or not participate in. One cannot choose the amount of melanin in their skin.

    There is lots of junk science out there which makes all kinds of claims in relation to behaviors, some want to blame everything on genetics, but there is no real proof at all, just theories at this point.

    I do not believe being gay and being a pedophile are the same, however, both behaviors are a choice. Same as being a heterosexual person who is promiscous, again behavior one chooses to engage in.

    And you are wrong to say people want gays kept out of schools. I don't care about that, each person has a right to go to school. What I am against is adding information in regards to sexual activity of people in textbooks.

    There is no reason to do it other than to push an agenda which is social engineering and has NO place in education.

    Now, I'm STILL waiting for someone to cough up a derogatory reference from a high school textbook in regards to someone's homosexuality etc.

    And I also believe it to be wrong to label someone as homosexual who did NOT identify themselves openly as that during their lifetime. Posthumous outing is wrong.
    You are missing the point entirely. We are not talking about sexual acts..we are talking about sexual orientation. I Was well aware I was gay at 11..but it was many years after that when I actually had sex. But I was just as gay at 11 as I am now. Nobody is advocating talking about sex or sex acts..
    It is important to mention sexual orientation when talking about historical figures..the omission of such information is discriminatory to gay people..and to gay children who need to know the truth and that there are gay role models out there. That given, I would also have to say that if someone is an historical figure and is/was gay and was infamous rather than famous..the same thing should apply and the sexual orientation mentioned(as in Jeffrey Dahmer..not a good role model but gay. It is only fair to mention the good with the bad.

    To not mention sexual orientation(notice I said orientation...which has NOTHING to do with sex acts..someone can be totally abstinent and still have a gay sexual orientation) is in the same league as not mentioning race, ethnicity, etc. In a reasonable society we would not have to mention these things because people would not have been marginalized in the first place. You have to realize that only a few short decades ago it was like we did not exist..we were never offically talked about or anything. We were not mentioned in polite society. We need to be mentioned to counter that time in the not so distant past when it was like we offically did not exist. I also am not a spring chicken and I can tell you that most gay(or even suspected gay) teens went through hell in school 20, 30, 40 years ago. I think what you describe when in school was the exception, not the rule. Also not being gay you only know what YOU PERCEIVED AT THAT TIME..did these people actually tell you they were not subject to discrimination..or is that simply your limited perception?(unless they were good friends you hung around with alot).

    I am not talking about making sexual orientation a focus..I am simply saying do not intentionally omit it. Of course schools should focus on the basics. I also think that one of the basics is history..and part of history in this country is racism and homophobia..and it does have a place in the classroom for that reason. If you omit that an historical figure had a gay sexual orientation..you are contributing to the marginalization of gay people. It is as simple as that.

  8. #38
    Hit By Ban Bus! AliceInWonderland's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moomies View Post
    Don't worry Sojiita, you still got us feminazis
    Yep! U GOT ME BABE!! I'll never go to the "other" side!!!!

    * i still say he's a closet-cast or just trying to get back at all the gays that may have hit on him or excluded him or had more power than him in Hollywood throughout the years and who have all the money and power in L.A. - eitherway; he's shooting himself in the foot b/c being a closetcase leads to stress related health problems and offending the Gays in L.A. leads to less money for your campaigns leads to your stupid ass outta office like the stoopidazz that you are!

  9. #39
    Elite Member NawdleZouss's Avatar
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    So let me get this clear, Delphinium, are you saying that being gay is a choice?



    What the fuck ever. If that's the case, then do you realize you're pretty much just talking out of your ass, and losing credibility as a reasonably intelligent person while at it?
    For a while, I had my hopes up that you'd be a conservative who thinks, which would be a welcome change, but it looks like that's just not meant to be...
    2 years...

  10. #40
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    people have a choice whether or not to act on their attractions - that goes for straight and gay people. but it's not sexual activity that defines whether you are straight or gay, it's who you're attracted to in the first place, or rather what gender. that is not a choice. you didn't choose to like men, that's just who you are. the same goes for gays - they didn't choose to be attracted to the same sex. surely you are smart enough to realise that delphinium?
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

  11. #41
    Super Moderator NoDayButToday's Avatar
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    Also, the fact that these people were homosexual often had an impact on their lives as well. I hate to use the same examples of Oscar Wilde and Tchaikovsky, but they work perfectly.

    Oscar Wilde had some VERY public legal battles affecting his credibility and success as an author that involved a gay love affair with a prominent member of society.

    It is theorized that Tchaikovsky committed suicide following rejection from his students. Also, his upset over his marriage to a woman is believed to have influenced one of his major works.

    These are things that should legitimately be taught in history (an author's reception/popularity in life, a composers influences on major works) and to exclude them simply because they are about the person being gay shortchanges the student.

  12. #42
    Hit By Ban Bus! pacific breeze's Avatar
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    I agree. But the focus should be on their work and how their personal lives informed their art, not just gossipy asides about their sex lives and love affairs. And that's true of heterosexual artists as well.

  13. #43
    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacific breeze View Post
    I agree. But the focus should be on their work and how their personal lives informed their art, not just gossipy asides about their sex lives and love affairs. And that's true of heterosexual artists as well.
    well..just a little added gossip about the sex lives and affairs would not be so bad..

  14. #44
    Super Moderator NoDayButToday's Avatar
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    Absolutely PB, it should be about their achievements, not gossipy. I'm just making the point that sometimes the sexual orientation can have an effect on their works and that part shouldn't be ignored just b/c they weren't straight. I have intelligent friends who had no idea about the Oscar Wilde trials until they got to college because their high school teachers never taught them about it while they were reading his work!

  15. #45
    Hit By Ban Bus! pacific breeze's Avatar
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    They don't learn about Oscar Wilde in high school English? That's almost criminal!

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