Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 63

Thread: San Francisco jail installs condom dispensers

  1. #46
    Elite Member Beeyotch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Posts
    31,314

    Default

    JFC, I see some people like playing devil's advocate even if it means eschewing common sense. Again. Contradicting people for the sake of it is such an idiotic hobby.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kittylady View Post
    You can't stop them from having sex so you can at least reduce the risks.
    That's it in a nutshell.

  2. #47
    Elite Member Just Kill Me's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    sucking on a blow pop and playing with electrodes
    Posts
    15,548

    Default

    Omfg, some of the crap in this thread makes my head hurt.

    What the fuck was that nonsense about making a policy change not based on that change already proving its effectiveness, how the hell would anyone ever find out if someone does not do it first. That was just ridiculous.
    Posted from my iPhone

  3. #48
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Wherever my kids are
    Posts
    34,423

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Just Kill Me View Post
    Omfg, some of the crap in this thread makes my head hurt.

    What the fuck was that nonsense about making a policy change not based on that change already proving its effectiveness, how the hell would anyone ever find out if someone does not do it first. That was just ridiculous.
    Posted from my iPhone
    To clarify, my original question was whether they had started this practice with any previous proof that it would stem the spread of HIV/VD in prisons. Later, Mel (I think) posted an article showing there were a number of studies indicating that the practice of providing condoms in prison is effective in reducing the spread of HIV/VD.

    My concern still is that many apparent consensual sexual relationships among prison inmates are anything but, and for that reason, should still be illegal. To me, making condoms available to people who are proscribed from having sex sends a contradictory message, but at least has the positive effect of reducing sexually transmitted diseases.

  4. #49
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    fellow traveller
    Posts
    59,036

    Default

    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

  5. #50
    czb
    czb is offline
    Elite Member czb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    left coast
    Posts
    18,758

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    i would totally go to jail if venus was the warden. she could abuse me any time.

    . . . .
    tell her to apply for a job at san quentin. they are always advertising for guards and the salaries are pretty good. plus there are great views of the bay.

  6. #51
    Elite Member Just Kill Me's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2007
    Location
    sucking on a blow pop and playing with electrodes
    Posts
    15,548

    Default

    Damn I wish I used the quote function.
    Posted from my iPhone

  7. #52
    Elite Member Kathie_Moffett's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    just another freak in the freak kingdom
    Posts
    6,981

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    I'm saying where's the evidence that it will actually do any good.
    Why the heck do you need evidence? This isn't friggin' rocket science. And at WORST, this could do SOME good. It CAN'T do any bad unless someone saves up 100 rubbers and commits suicide by stuffing them all down his throat.

    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    First, I would assume that there are some prisons out there (maybe Europe?) where this has already been tried. What were the results? Is the U.S. really in the vanguard on this issue? Hard to believe.

    Also, quite frankly, I think it serves the interests of prisoners who are rape victims or likely rape victims, to ban sexual contact altogether. Because in a prison environment a victim can easily be pressured into saying that he consented to sex so that there won't be retaliation for making a rape charge. Banning sex altogether, in my opinion, protects the victims.
    THEY ALREADY DO THAT.

    The only way you could enforce the ban would be to have one guard for every two or three prisoners, 24/7.

    You wanna pay for that? I don't.

    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    Why would I Google for a study? The prison officials in this story are the ones making the so-far-unsupported assertion that condoms in prisons, along with the lifting of a ban on sex, will somehow decrease HIV rates.
    Do you really think they don't know better than you on that subject.

    And do you want to waste our tax dollars on a STUDY? How would you even insure honest reporting? Should we hire people to, um, watch?

    gadzooks.

    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    From what I'm reading, the reason that prisons make sexual contact illegal is because it is almost impossible to figure out who is actually having consensual sex. Maybe they should divide the prisons into wings of people who a) say they want to have consensual sex, and b) want sex banned between inmates.
    Honestly, and I don't mean this unkindly, but you really don't seem to get it what prison life is like. Reading studies won't teach you. You have no idea. I'm not saying that to be superior...it's just true. I mean you talk like you can make rules and inmates will just abide by them. You talk like you can be reasonable with inmates. Not really, no.

    Quote Originally Posted by VenusInFauxFurs View Post
    It's a health issue. Prisoners are going to fuck in jail. I don't think it's giving them undeserved privileges, it's cheaper to house HIV neg prisoners than poz ones.
    THIS!!! If you think about it, condoms are bound to cost less than medical care for HIV+ inmates. Let's try to be sensible with our taxpayer dollars. I mean we know the government isn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by czb View Post
    tell her to apply for a job at san quentin. they are always advertising for guards and the salaries are pretty good. plus there are great views of the bay.
    Oh and soooo much more.

    I was going to post about this a while ago, but the experience was strangely difficult to talk about and I let it go. A retired corrections officer I know who worked at San Quentin for 30 years took a few of us students on a private tour. I'll call him Alan. He showed us stuff civilians do not ever get to see. The only other folks who get this sort of look-see are police and correction academies, usually. He wanted to even get us into Death Row, but there had been an "incident" that day, so it was locked down. Pity, I wanted to tell Snott Peterson how lovely the weather was outside.

    Before, I thought it must be, you know, pretty bad there. I watched "Oz", I knew the score, right?

    I had no idea. They run it as best they can but as far as I am concerned you are better off dead than shut up in that place. I am not being melodramatic and I am not exaggerating. What makes it worse is that it is surrounded by so much heart-stopping beauty. You look around at the water and the birds and the flowers...and then you go in and that gate shuts behind you and MAN. You are in for it.

    Alan's very first day of work, he watched a man get stabbed to death right in front of him. It happened so quickly that nobody could have done anything. He told me he still has nightmares about the victim screaming for his mother. At the beginning of our class, when he gave us his contact info, he added, "and that isn't my work cell phone, it's my personal one. I give it out because I literally do not care when you call me. I never sleep anyway so just don't worry about it."

    He wasn't kidding, and after I went to the prison I understood why he would still be suffering from insomnia years after retirement.

    People who think a prison--especially an older, rotting one like San Quentin--can be clean and neat and orderly--are delusional. You cannot completely control the inmates and yeah, they are not like you and us, most of them. There are a few guys who are just struggling through short sentences for nonviolent drug offenses and such, some old guys who murdered someone 40 years ago and are obviously pretty changed men by now, and a few more subtle criminals, child molesters and so forth, who are not openly violent and who are not "problem" inmates. But there are also many of the worst of the worst at San Quentin and you can see it in their faces, in the way they...assess you.

    You cannot entirely know who is less dangerous and who is more; a man may have been incarcerated for armed robbery, say, who actually committed much worse crimes. And the thing is, there are many open areas where prisoners congregate, not just the one stereotypical exercise yard you've seen in movies or something. You canNOT keep them all locked up like animals all day and night, and there are not enough personnel to watch them all. Point is there are PLENTY of ways to have sex--or kill someone--if you are determined.

    And some of what I saw on a perfectly normal, not-too-troubled day at San Quentin....ugh. One block is where they process new inmates, figure out where to put them longterm. OMG. The filth. Open to the air. Pigeons. Rats. Stifling heat. TINY tiny cells, not even enough room to squeeze past the bunk beds without brushing the wall (and I am a small woman.) I touched NOTHING and when I got home, everything I wore that day went into the trash. The staff made everyone use sanitizer and warned us about eleventy times. I guess MRSA is running rampant.

    There is no money to fix all this. Overcrowded, crazy, dangerous, nightmarish. They do have a newly built hospital wing--looked pretty nice from the outside, it actually is built around and incorporates the original nineteenth century building. If I were there I'd be trying to get sick all the time!! I was told there is a tremendous problem with HIV and sexually transmitted diseases.

    There is also a cell block where longtime/lifer inmates who have proved themselves worthy of the privilege are allowed to live; the cells are no bigger than in the processing block I mentioned, but they are cleaner--I would still go insane in a day--and there are two guys to each one. But they can have TV and a few of the comforts of home, and the environment is safer and more controlled and comfortable than many other areas of the prison.

    Those who are in a relationship are allowed to petition to live together. Or, they'll be matched up by the system and some choose to make the best of it. Some of the men actually live as women. I saw a couple of examples myself. This is open and known and accepted.

    You really think the staff could stop them?

    Quite literally, some of them get so conditioned to male/male relationships--even if they were not originally homosexual--that attractive young men who visit the prison often are more sexually harassed than women. A cute young fellow in our group had been contemplating maybe getting a haircut but wow did he suddenly decide to go ahead and lop his mane clean off when he decided to go on the tour.

    I'm gonna quell my thread-hijack rambling now and just say: condoms for inmates, hell yeah.
    Did you know that every time a parent gives in to their kid's whines and buys them candy at the checkout lane, a kitten gets diabetes?-Dlisted
    I dislike groups of people, but I love individuals. Every person you look at, you can see the universe in their eyes, if you're really looking.
    -George Carlin

  8. #53
    Gold Member Little Goon's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Standing outside a KFC defending the Colonel
    Posts
    1,310

    Default

    ^Wow, what a great post Kathie Moffet! It was very interesting. I have never been inside a prison before in my life, and you were very brave to actually go into one.
    I know prisons are not very nice places to be from watching TV-- I'll never forget a reality show I watched in which it was explained how the prisoners would take the razors blades from out of their shaving razors, then melt the bristles of their toothbrushes, put the razer blades into the melted bristles, and then hide their weapon in their rectums. They would then wait for a chance to pull their home-made knive from out of their butt and stab someone with it. I would not mess with anyone willing to do such a thing. No way.

    From all of what I know of prison, I would have been too scared to inside the place. I'd have waited in the car, for sure.

    Besides the nutters living there, it must also have been hard for you to tour the prison just because of the vile energy of the place, and the collective pain and bad feelings of the prisoners.
    Plus, even the guards are messed up. I met a creepy prison guard once who decided to start telling stories about all the horrors that he'd seen working in the prison. He was creepy.

    I commend you for even going into the prison, such as you did, and I think you are brave. Thank you for sharing you story.

    As an aside, you guys really can argue about anything, can't you? Condoms in prisons you say? Sounds like fighting words to me.
    I have opinions of my own -- strong opinions -- but I don't always agree with them. - George W. Bush

  9. #54
    A*O
    A*O is offline
    Friend of Gossip Rocks! A*O's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Being Paula
    Posts
    31,675

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by VenusInFauxFurs View Post
    It's not about rape. Men fuck other men in prison all the time. They might not identify as being gay, but consensual sex between men happens a lot. If it prevents HIV and other STDs spreading, fucking fantastic.
    Agree. Plenty of straight men have consensual sex in jail with or without condoms so they may as well use protection. It's not necessarily a gay thing, and it's not necessarily rape. I think it's a great idea.
    If all the women in this place were laid end to end, I wouldn’t be surprised - Dorothy Parker

  10. #55
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2008
    Location
    Wherever my kids are
    Posts
    34,423

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Kathie_Moffett View Post
    Why the heck do you need evidence? This isn't friggin' rocket science. And at WORST, this could do SOME good. It CAN'T do any bad unless someone saves up 100 rubbers and commits suicide by stuffing them all down his throat.
    As other studies have said, people take condoms and use them to move contraband around. And fill them with stuff to use as a weapon. So, yes, there, are considerations that have to be made when deciding to put condoms in prison other than their efficacy for preventing STDs. That being said, I acceded to the idea of putting condoms in prisons about two pages ago. I'm not sure why it's being brought up again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kathie_Moffett View Post
    The only way you could enforce the ban would be to have one guard for every two or three prisoners, 24/7.

    You wanna pay for that? I don't.

    Do you really think they don't know better than you on that subject.

    And do you want to waste our tax dollars on a STUDY? How would you even insure honest reporting? Should we hire people to, um, watch?

    gadzooks.

    Honestly, and I don't mean this unkindly, but you really don't seem to get it what prison life is like. Reading studies won't teach you. You have no idea. I'm not saying that to be superior...it's just true. I mean you talk like you can make rules and inmates will just abide by them. You talk like you can be reasonable with inmates. Not really, no.
    With regard to whether sex should be allowed between inmates, I don't recall saying or implying that I know more than prison guards. What I did was quote Human Rights Watch's findings that were based on multiple prisons and which said that many sexual relationships in prison were coerced but appeared to consensual.

    I wouldn't do away with rape laws in the United States just because we haven't managed to stop rape from happening. And I wouldn't lift the ban on sex between inmates just because some inmates get around it.

    And I also wouldn't hold up San Quentin - one of the oldest prison facilities in the U.S. - as a typical prison environment.
    Last edited by MohandasKGanja; September 11th, 2010 at 10:25 AM.

  11. #56
    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Central Duh-hio
    Posts
    22,809

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    ^^^
    this.
    not all sex in prisons is rape. in fact, i'd say rape is the minority.
    watch louis theroux's documentary about san quentin. it's abundantly clear that there is a lot of prison lovin' going around. there are even prison couples who openly shack up (share a cell).
    yes
    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    Apparently there was a major anti-prison-rape bill passed in 2003, and which had support across very disparate political groups. I'm not sure how effective it's been.

    After having read the article that Mel has posted, I think I would say that I would be in favor of having the condoms distributed while still (paradoxically) making sexual relations between prisoners illegal.
    I think it should be discouraged, but still providing condoms acknowledges that while it is discouraged, it still will happen, and anything that can help prevent HIV transmission is good.

    I do not think there should really be a 'punishment'(as in extra jail time) for consensual sex in prison(and it happens alot). But I also can see your point that some guys will be having 'consensual sex' that is not really consensual-even in a non-rape context.

    Maybe they can at least persuade those who are using them for sex to use condoms? I don't know.

    I just think that whether or not the condoms are there, the sex(of all kinds) is going to happen, and the condoms can only help, as I do not see them being there as actually encouraging or causing more sexual activity, especially if sexual activity is(while acknowledging that it does and will happen) is at least discouraged.

  12. #57
    Elite Member Honey's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    England
    Posts
    59,935

    Default

    Sounds like a great idea. There should be free condom machines in the outside world too

  13. #58
    Elite Member VenusInFauxFurs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    Back in the boxed wine.
    Posts
    21,277

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by MohandasKGanja View Post
    As other studies have said, people take condoms and use them to move contraband around. And fill them with stuff to use as a weapon.
    A condom used to make a shiv? You can make better weapons out of just about anything else available in the pokey.
    When your daughter plays "House," she pretends to be an annoying doctor with a pill-addiction and a limp.

  14. #59
    Elite Member msdeb's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    in a van down by the river
    Posts
    39,422

    Default

    not sure why there's a debate. if there's a chance of lowering a risk of AIDS etc, then get a condom. Same thing as giving out condoms in schools. pretty simple.
    Basic rule of Gossip Rocks: Don't be a dick.Tati
    Lighten Up Francis WCG

  15. #60
    Elite Member Kittylady's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2008
    Location
    Somewhere been 'General Confusion' and 'Total WTF?'
    Posts
    21,454

    Default

    If having condoms available in prison will reduce the transmission rates of disease amongst inmates then I am all for it because one day most of these guys will be getting out and taking whatever they caught in prison through unprotected sex with them. This isn't just about protecting the health of convicts, this is about protecting the health of us all.
    I hate to advocate drugs, alcohol, violence or insanity to anyone, but they've always worked for me. Hunter S Thompson

    How big would a T-Rex wang be?! - Karistiona


Page 4 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 3
    Last Post: May 15th, 2010, 01:58 AM
  2. Will Smith installs paperless loo
    By Honey in forum Latest Gossip
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: December 18th, 2007, 01:48 PM
  3. White House installs explosives detector; airports get NOTHING
    By Grimmlok in forum U.S. Politics and Issues
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: August 17th, 2006, 09:53 AM
  4. Tom Cruise Installs In-home Hospital For Katie Holmes
    By twitchy in forum Gossip Archive
    Replies: 23
    Last Post: April 18th, 2006, 10:27 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •