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Thread: Recession fueling right-wing extremism, U.S. says

  1. #31
    Elite Member sparkly's Avatar
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    There's nothing wrong with owning a gun, as long as you follow the law to the T. Imo, if more women legally carried concealed weapons and knew how to use them efficiently, there would be less random, violent crimes against women. Predators wouldn't take the chance on raping a female in a parking lot if he thought there was at least a 50% chance she had a gun and knew how to use it.

    The day that the gov't is able to take ALL of the illegal weapons in this country off the streets and away from criminals and gang members is the day they can take my gun.

    If teachers were allowed to conceal firearms on school property, we would see a dramatic decrease in school shootings. Right now, all those little psychopaths know they can take out 20-30 people on a school campus, and no one there has the means to defend themselves. If that law was changed, those little bitches would be shot before they could kill a massive amount of people, resulting in many, many saved lives. It's just how I see it.
    Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

  2. #32
    Elite Member Cali's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkly View Post
    If teachers were allowed to conceal firearms on school property, we would see a dramatic decrease in school shootings. Right now, all those little psychopaths know they can take out 20-30 people on a school campus, and no one there has the means to defend themselves. If that law was changed, those little bitches would be shot before they could kill a massive amount of people, resulting in many, many saved lives. It's just how I see it.
    See, this is my problem with much of the way America governs. One psychopath at VA Tech goes on a rampage and suddenly we are considering allowing guns at universities. One lunatic tries to stage a shoe-bombing on a plane, and now everyone has to put their shoes through a metal detector at the airport. One group attempts to use liquid to make bombs on airplanes, and now everyone has to carry tiny travel-sized liquids on airplanes.

    Its like there is zero attention paid to a) the likelyhood of it happening again, b) the scope and size of the potential threat, and c) re-evaluating the situation after the new rules take effect.

    More guns won't solve the problem- you just increase the potential for a Wild West-style shootout.

    This is why I posted this thread. I think its a major problem and we need to deal with it.
    Obama Administration is gun-shy on automatic weapons ban

  3. #33
    Silver Member mama mia's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chattykathy View Post
    People were b!tching the whole 8 years, too, it just happened you agreed with them then . that still counts as b!tching.
    I agree!
    mama mia*
    The pessimist complains about the wind; the optimist expects it to change; the realist adjusts the sails. - William Arthur Ward

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Yeah, but we made sense. We weren't just randomly pissed off. We had a hundred reasons that were all clearly explained, ie: the iraq war, civil liberties destruction, a ridiculous tax cut for the mega wealthy...

    Protests were hundreds of thousands strong!@
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  5. #35
    Elite Member sparkly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cali View Post
    See, this is my problem with much of the way America governs. One psychopath at VA Tech goes on a rampage and suddenly we are considering allowing guns at universities. One lunatic tries to stage a shoe-bombing on a plane, and now everyone has to put their shoes through a metal detector at the airport. One group attempts to use liquid to make bombs on airplanes, and now everyone has to carry tiny travel-sized liquids on airplanes.

    Its like there is zero attention paid to a) the likelyhood of it happening again, b) the scope and size of the potential threat, and c) re-evaluating the situation after the new rules take effect.

    More guns won't solve the problem- you just increase the potential for a Wild West-style shootout.

    This is why I posted this thread. I think its a major problem and we need to deal with it.
    Obama Administration is gun-shy on automatic weapons ban
    I disagree~ there would be no Wild West shootout, because all it takes is one bullet to kill. So if you think gun control is a major problem, but yet you don't like airports taking extreme measures with travel shampoo bottles and taking your shoes off, what do you suppose people do to protect themselves? Call the police? If someone broke into your house when they knew you were home, it's safe to assume they will hurt you. By the time the cops show up, you could be raped and/or dead.
    Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

  6. #36
    Elite Member Aella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkly View Post
    There's nothing wrong with owning a gun, as long as you follow the law to the T. Imo, if more women legally carried concealed weapons and knew how to use them efficiently, there would be less random, violent crimes against women. Predators wouldn't take the chance on raping a female in a parking lot if he thought there was at least a 50% chance she had a gun and knew how to use it.

    The day that the gov't is able to take ALL of the illegal weapons in this country off the streets and away from criminals and gang members is the day they can take my gun.

    If teachers were allowed to conceal firearms on school property, we would see a dramatic decrease in school shootings. Right now, all those little psychopaths know they can take out 20-30 people on a school campus, and no one there has the means to defend themselves. If that law was changed, those little bitches would be shot before they could kill a massive amount of people, resulting in many, many saved lives. It's just how I see it.
    My comment wasn't about gun ownership in general, even though obviously I'm against it. More about the idea of any 'protest' including people waving their weapons in rage. Even if you believe the whole 'responsible gun owner' thing, you have to admit that people in groups, especially emotionally charged groups, are likely to engage in a lot more extreme acts than an individual.
    "Remember to always be yourself. Unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

    "The only thing more expensive than education is ignorance." -Benjamin Franklin

  7. #37
    Elite Member sparkly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aella View Post
    My comment wasn't about gun ownership in general, even though obviously I'm against it. More about the idea of any 'protest' including people waving their weapons in rage. Even if you believe the whole 'responsible gun owner' thing, you have to admit that people in groups, especially emotionally charged groups, are likely to engage in a lot more extreme acts than an individual.
    My post wasn't in response to yours, and I wholeheartedly agree with your statement. People in packs are less afraid of consequence because they have loads of support, and if those people are enraged with easy access to guns, it can be a dangerous mixture. No one should be waving around a deadly weapon unless they intend to use it to protect themselves from an immediate, life endangering threats.

    In a perfect world, no lunatics would own guns, no child would take a rifle to school and shoot everyone, and no one would be worried about being assaulted from a psychopath. But it doesn't help pro gun owners' cases to see gun enthusiasts turn into an angry mob with weapons in their hands. I own a gun, and even I think what they did was wrong.
    Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

  8. #38
    Elite Member Fluffy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkly View Post
    Imo, if more women legally carried concealed weapons and knew how to use them efficiently, there would be less random, violent crimes against women. Predators wouldn't take the chance on raping a female in a parking lot if he thought there was at least a 50% chance she had a gun and knew how to use it.
    Most violent crimes against women are committed by men they know, not some random man they come across in an alley or parking lot. Guns aren't going to solve rapes unless women always carry a gun and never put themselves in even a slightly vulnerable position.

    Quote Originally Posted by chattykathy View Post
    Sounds like Left wing drivel to me. Whenever one side is in power, the other complains about it, and when it switches, the other side complains about it. Some amount of gripes as there ever was.
    Quote Originally Posted by chattykathy View Post
    People were b!tching the whole 8 years, too, it just happened you agreed with them then . that still counts as b!tching.
    Right...
    I was in Minneapolis and St. Paul during the 2008 GOP Convention and witnessed first-hand massive federal police raids and "preventive" arrests of peaceful, law-abiding protesters and even the violent arrests of journalists, and I don't recall any complaints from Jonah Goldberg or Michelle Malkin. I don't recall Glenn Reynolds or Mark Steyn complaining that the FBI, for virtually the entire Bush administration, was systematically abusing its new National Security Letters authorities under the Patriot Act to collect extremely invasive information, in secret, about Americans who had done nothing wrong. Russ Feingold's efforts to place limits and abuse-preventing safeguards on these Patriot Act powers in 2006 attracted a grand total of 10 votes in the Senate -- none Republican.

    Indeed, thanks to the very people who are today petulantly complaining about politically-motivated federal police actions (now that they imagine it's directed at them rather than at people they dislike), the Federal Government today has the power to eavesdrop on telephone calls and read the emails of American citizens without warrants; monitor bank records without court approval; obtain all sorts of invasive personal records, medical and financial, without Subpoenas; and obtain and store a whole host of other personal information about American citizens who have not been accused, let alone convicted, of having done anything wrong. Also thanks to them (and things like the War on Terror, the War on Drugs, the Patriot Act, the FISA Amendments Act, etc. etc), most of this is carried out without any real oversight or safeguards, left entirely to the judgment and good faith of federal officials to wield these powers carefully and for proper ends. And, better still, federal officials can hide behind sweeping claims of secrecy and National Security to prevent courts from scrutinizing what they did and determine if it was illegal (we call that "the state secrets privilege").

    So what's the problem? As the National Review/Bush-following-Right has been telling us for years now, there's nothing to worry about if you've done nothing wrong and have nothing to hide. The first duty of the Government is to protect us all -- keep us safe and warm from all the scary things out there, like a Good Daddy does -- and if they need to trample on some lofty privacy ideals and so-called civil liberties concerns and supposed Constitutional safeguards, well: that's just how it is. It takes a real paranoid hysteric to think that federal government officials have nothing better to do than target domestic political opponents. And besides, what good is the Constitution if we're all dead at the hands of domestic McVeigh-like Terrorists? After all, the Constitution isn't a suicide pact. Remember all of that? I certainly do.

    This is all as laughable as it is predictable. Just a couple months out of power and they have suddenly re-discovered their fear of the Federal Government and their belief in the need to limit its powers. As I wrote in February about the Glenn Beck Movement that is taking over the Limbaugh/National Review Right:
    What was most remarkable about this allegedly "anti-government" movement was that -- with some isolated and principled exceptions -- it completely vanished upon the election of Republican George Bush, and it stayed invisible even as Bush presided over the most extreme and invasive expansion of federal government power in memory. Even as Bush seized and used all of the powers which that movement claimed in the 1990s to find so tyrannical and unconstitutional -- limitless, unchecked surveillance activities, detention powers with no oversight, expanding federal police powers, secret prison camps, even massively exploding and debt-financed domestic spending -- they meekly submitted to all of it, even enthusiastically cheered it all on. . . .

    But now, only four weeks into the presidency of Barack Obama, they are back -- angrier and more chest-beating than ever. Actually, the mere threat of an Obama presidency was enough to revitalize them from their eight-year slumber, awaken them from their camouflaged, well-armed suburban caves.
    http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwa...nce/index.html

  9. #39
    Elite Member Aella's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkly View Post
    My post wasn't in response to yours, and I wholeheartedly agree with your statement. People in packs are less afraid of consequence because they have loads of support, and if those people are enraged with easy access to guns, it can be a dangerous mixture. No one should be waving around a deadly weapon unless they intend to use it to protect themselves from an immediate, life endangering threats.

    In a perfect world, no lunatics would own guns, no child would take a rifle to school and shoot everyone, and no one would be worried about being assaulted from a psychopath. But it doesn't help pro gun owners' cases to see gun enthusiasts turn into an angry mob with weapons in their hands. I own a gun, and even I think what they did was wrong.
    Gotcha, sorry if it seemed like I jumped at you in that case.

    And hey, we're in full agreement about the Bring Your Own Ammo rallies, if not the wider gun issue.
    "Remember to always be yourself. Unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

    "The only thing more expensive than education is ignorance." -Benjamin Franklin

  10. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by chattykathy View Post
    Sounds like Left wing drivel to me. Whenever one side is in power, the other complains about it, and when it switches, the other side complains about it. Some amount of gripes as there ever was.

    the difference is that far-left wingers smoke pot and sometimes demonstrate and riot, while right-wingers spend $$ on machine-guns and explosives. It's out of question for me who are more threatening.

  11. #41
    Elite Member sparkly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    Most violent crimes against women are committed by men they know, not some random man they come across in an alley or parking lot. Guns aren't going to solve rapes unless women always carry a gun and never put themselves in even a slightly vulnerable position.




    Right...
    http://www.salon.com/opinion/greenwa...nce/index.html
    True, most violent crimes against women are from people they know and are intimate with. That is still pretty irrelevant imo. If women stood up for themselves and pulled a gun on someone who is threatening to kill them and is beating the shit out of them, I guarantee you that asshole will stop unless he has a death wish.

    Women who are assaulted can't help but put themselves in a vulenerable position, because no matter what we do, predators will always find a way to catch us off guard, or even worse, children. Women need to do whatever is necessary to make themselves feel safe and capable of protecting themselves, even if they don't like the idea of owning a gun. Just do something.
    Quote Originally Posted by Aella View Post
    Gotcha, sorry if it seemed like I jumped at you in that case.

    And hey, we're in full agreement about the Bring Your Own Ammo rallies, if not the wider gun issue.
    No, I didn't get that at all. The topic of guns is controversial and can cause many heated debates, so I've never commented on it before.

    No worries, I know what you meant.
    Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

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    Elite Member nana55's Avatar
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    That's a good idea! Two people in the house with their own guns. That wouldn't be a problem if they started fighting would it? I mean tempers wouldn't flare and shots be fired......no couldn't happen. How about a teacher, being pushed to the edge, no worry there. Yeah, it would be good if we all carried our firearms in the glove box, then if some asshole cuts us off, we could show them. Yep, everyone owning a gun would be great!
    If I can't be a good example, then let me be a horrible warning.

  13. #43
    Elite Member sparkly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nana55 View Post
    That's a good idea! Two people in the house with their own guns. That wouldn't be a problem if they started fighting would it? I mean tempers wouldn't flare and shots be fired......no couldn't happen. How about a teacher, being pushed to the edge, no worry there. Yeah, it would be good if we all carried our firearms in the glove box, then if some asshole cuts us off, we could show them. Yep, everyone owning a gun would be great!
    If you distrust people that much, I can imagine that you would be quite frightened to leave the house. If someone can't be trusted not to kill someone else during a heated fight, whose to say they won't kill the other person with a knife? A gun isn't the only deadly weapon inside of a home.

    And if a teacher is that temperamental and homicidal, not having a gun certainly wouldn't prevent them from murdering a student if that's what they want. You're acting as if rational people can't be trusted. Very telling.

    But hey, let's hope someone with a gun comes to your rescue if you're ever in mortal danger at the hands of a psycho (not any less of a possibility than the examples you gave). Would you still judge the person who saved your life then?
    Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

  14. #44
    Elite Member lurkur's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sparkly View Post
    If you distrust people that much, I can imagine that you would be quite frightened to leave the house. If someone can't be trusted not to kill someone else during a heated fight, whose to say they won't kill the other person with a knife? A gun isn't the only deadly weapon inside of a home.

    And if a teacher is that temperamental and homicidal, not having a gun certainly wouldn't prevent them from murdering a student if that's what they want. You're acting as if rational people can't be trusted. Very telling.

    But hey, let's hope someone with a gun comes to your rescue if you're ever in mortal danger at the hands of a psycho (not any less of a possibility than the examples you gave). Would you still judge the person who saved your life then?
    There will always be crazies in the world, the point she seemed to be making was that "normal" people flip out from time to time. But if someone flips out violently and they are holding a gun, there is less "room for error" because the gun can kill someone faster than it takes for a person to calm down.

    If someone decided to kill someone...
    If they punched them to death, because people typically don't immediately die, there is a chance that the person doing the crime could change their mind, or someone else could come help them before the victim's life is taken away.

    If someone decided to shoot them to death, not only does the gun accomplish that quicker, if the person does change their mind, the damages are much more difficult to heal. And because the murder could occur quickly, in an instant, that also lessens the chance that someone else could come along to help the victim.

  15. #45
    Elite Member BITTER's Avatar
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    Did these right wing fundies start shit-stirring before or after the recent US presidential election??

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