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Thread: Questions about politics in general

  1. #16
    Gold Member ymeman's Avatar
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    1)I have to laugh at people like this...and scratch my head, and laugh some more. "Not afraid to take a stand"? So it's the fear, and not the actual stand that matters? She should just watch Fear Factor and not vote, then, if the actual ISSUES that people take stands ABOUT don't concern her.
    2). I'm sure terrorists attacks have been planned on the U.S. since their were terrorists. The Bush admin likes to spin it that 'it's all Clintons' fault' which is like Clinton taking responsibilty for the billion dollar (trillion?) deficit that Bush has left us with, because there was money in existence in Clinton's term too, even though he left us with a huge surplus. Bush was briefed on 8/6/01 that bin Laden was preparing to attack the U.S. and he ignored it.
    3) They are saying that McCain supports Bush's platforms. Stupidity and War, Encroaching Theocracy, War, Bankrupting gov't funds earmarked for so-called 'entitlement' programs, Supporting big business, and, more War.
    4) I do not believe that H. Clinton is this diabolical. Maureen Dowd has suggested as much in a column so this isn't the first time I've heard that spin but I do think it is spin from the right, and not reality.

    It sounds like you are surrounded by people that listen to Rush Limbaugh or something. Where I come from people vote for the candidate that believes what they believe. I am not looking for posturing and 'stand-taking'. I don't want anyone to 'take a stand' on something they don't even believe, just for the sake of cockswagger. What a bizarre idea.

  2. #17
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    It sounds like you are surrounded by people that listen to Rush Limbaugh or something.
    Oh, but I am! I live in NC! My dad watches FOX news exclusively.

    It would just be good to know how to rebut some of these objections. Not that it would make a difference. Honestly, very few people are still undecided at this point. It's just about who gets the most people to the polls.

  3. #18
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    OK, guys, new question.

    When I look at the U.S. Congress website with voting records, I see "Not Voting" a lot (for everyone). How can I distinguish between a Senator not being there for the vote or being "Present" and choosing not to vote? Obama has been accused of voting "Present" a lot, but I don't see that term on the website.

  4. #19
    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotncmom View Post
    OK, guys, new question.

    When I look at the U.S. Congress website with voting records, I see "Not Voting" a lot (for everyone). How can I distinguish between a Senator not being there for the vote or being "Present" and choosing not to vote? Obama has been accused of voting "Present" a lot, but I don't see that term on the website.
    Actually, it doesn't matter to me if they were there or not. Either way, when they do not vote or are not present,they are pretty much trying to play it safe, wasting tax payer money to save their own ass. It is cowardly as custard to me. They were sent in to VOTE and take a stand-not worry about what people at home will think.
    I didn't start out to collect diamonds, but somehow they just kept piling up.-Mae West

  5. #20
    Gold Member barbiedoll25's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McJag View Post
    Actually, it doesn't matter to me if they were there or not. Either way, when they do not vote or are not present,they are pretty much trying to play it safe, wasting tax payer money to save their own ass. It is cowardly as custard to me. They were sent in to VOTE and take a stand-not worry about what people at home will think.
    EXACTLY!!!! That is where Obama loses me... fricking make a decison. You may not appeal to everyone but you have to be true to yourself. Why are u there if you won't vote one way or the other???

  6. #21
    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbiedoll25 View Post
    EXACTLY!!!! That is where Obama loses me... fricking make a decison. You may not appeal to everyone but you have to be true to yourself. Why are u there if you won't vote one way or the other???
    I agree,that is troubling. Do NOT think he is the only one! Seems to be an occupational disease.
    I didn't start out to collect diamonds, but somehow they just kept piling up.-Mae West

  7. #22
    Elite Member Little Wombat's Avatar
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    ^ There are a lot of things they vote on that will pass or not pass whether or not they vote. Therefore, if they're away, it's not worth the effort to come back and vote. For instance, if you look at the link someone sent from the Post, you can see both the GOP & Dem positions. If they're both Yes, then there's not really a reason to go through the effort to go vote when they can handle other business.

    Unless you've been around the Hill, you might be surprised at how much work goes on there. Meeting this, meeting that. This topic, that topic. This constituent group, that concern... it's never-ending.

    And like someone else mentioned, there are a lot of inconsequential things for them to vote one: procedural stuff, non important stuff, etc.

  8. #23
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbiedoll25 View Post
    EXACTLY!!!! That is where Obama loses me... fricking make a decison. You may not appeal to everyone but you have to be true to yourself. Why are u there if you won't vote one way or the other???
    You mean the way McCain, the maverick, stayed true to himself while backing Bush over 90% of the time, and now he wants to paint himself as the person who can clean up the problems that he helped to support?

  9. #24
    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    You mean the way McCain, the maverick, stayed true to himself while backing Bush over 90% of the time, and now he wants to paint himself as the person who can clean up the problems that he helped to support?
    Yes. Just like that. Where is Superman when we really need him?
    I didn't start out to collect diamonds, but somehow they just kept piling up.-Mae West

  10. #25
    Elite Member Little Wombat's Avatar
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    By the way, I should also mention that all the votes in the voting record are roll call votes, which means that you vote if you're there. There is no such thing as voting "Present." If you're not going to vote, you're not going to show up. But you'll note that both McCain and Obama (and Biden more recently) haven't voted much since they are campaigning.

  11. #26
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McJag View Post
    Yes. Just like that. Where is Superman when we really need him?
    Hopefully making a better movie this time around.

  12. #27
    Gold Member ymeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by barbiedoll25 View Post
    EXACTLY!!!! That is where Obama loses me... fricking make a decison. You may not appeal to everyone but you have to be true to yourself. Why are u there if you won't vote one way or the other???
    This is a presidential election, we aren't voting either one of them back into the senate. We have killed a million Iraqis and left 5 million Iraqi children orphaned. Do you feel this needs to continue, and possibly move into Iran, or would you like to see the killing stop?

  13. #28
    Gold Member ymeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotncmom View Post
    Oh, but I am! I live in NC! My dad watches FOX news exclusively.

    It would just be good to know how to rebut some of these objections. Not that it would make a difference. Honestly, very few people are still undecided at this point. It's just about who gets the most people to the polls.
    I live in NC too, am surrounded by conservative christians who truly believe that Obama is some kind of muslim manchurian candidate.

    As far as getting people to the polls, we did that in 2004 and republicans pulled every dirty trick in the book to suppress the vote, and used election fraud where even that wasn't enough. We had people waiting in line for hours upon hours to vote. People were disgusted with Bush, disgusted with the war, and desperately wanted to reverse the nightmare. Republicans pulled fraud in Ohio, in a similar manner to the fraud in 2000 in Florida, and reinstated their boy king. I believe election fraud has played a HUGE role in the last two elections; it's probably there in every election but in these cases it was enough to affect the result. Activists have made heroic efforts toward getting rid of paperless voting and things like that so there is a chance things will be better this time. Or not.

    I no longer believe there is a reason to argue with people like this, who already self-censor by listening to Limbaugh and watching Fox. I think they are lost causes and believe me, I know all the rebuttals. They are going to censor you out, too, just like they censor the rest of actual reality. I think the efforts need to go into fighting election fraud.

  14. #29
    Elite Member nwgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hotncmom View Post
    1) Was told by someone who claims to be a liberal but is voting McCain this election that she liked Obama but his voting record was a dealbreaker. She claims he has voted "present" on most issues, and to her that means he is afraid to take a stand and have it on record because he was afraid that would hurt his chances. She said she wanted someone who was not afraid to take a stand. When asked about Palin, she said she didn't agree with her, but at least she had convictions. Comments?
    Sometimes I just wanna rip my hair out when I hear that!

    Having convictions means nothing, and it certainly doesn't mean that the convictions are sane or safe or good. The KKK has convictions. Fred Phelps and his group of protestors have convictions. Hitler had convictions. So what? WHAT you are convicted about is what matters, not just that you are.

    (Not lecturing you hotncmom...just saying. Back to regular programming.)
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."

  15. #30
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    ^^That was not my comment about convictions, it was an acquaintance that said that.

    Living in NC, and with the electoral college system in place, is really discouraging. It makes you feel like unless you live in a swing state your vote doesn't count. KWIM?

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