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Thread: Obama reiterates promise to 'end' 'Don't Ask'

  1. #16
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bychance View Post
    Right, because matters concerning gay people are far more urgent and important than the violence and damaged US relations between the Muslim people of the middle east
    considering it's about US citizens, you're fucking right it's more important.

    Sorry to be blunt but he has other things that should/and are #1 on his 'to do list'.
    Right, says someone who has all their rights. You have no perspective.

    I love all the breeders saying "there are more important things".

    Not to gays there isn't. Realize that. Being a second class citizen is IT. People with all their rights intact, telling those that do not that there are more important things? LOL

    Maybe if all the straight assholes weren't opposing gays at every turn THE PROCESS WOULD GO A LOT EASIER like it has in other more civilized nations, and it could be over and done with... but NOO.. it has to be a huge fight because of STRAIGHT PEOPLE.

    So maybe if they just politely fucked off and kept their noses in their own business for a change, the "more important" things could be dealt with without some other oppressed minority fucking things up by DARING to fight for their god given equal rights at the same time. So sorry to have inconvenienced you all.

    Jesus fucking christ, that's fucking sad.

    Sit down, be quiet, there are more important things.

    Sure. I'll go back in time and let the blacks and the women and the aboriginals and everybody else know that there's more important things to deal with according to the group THAT HAS ALL THE RIGHTS IT COULD EVER WANT.

    Asinine.
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  2. #17
    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevellingInSane View Post
    Yes, they had to be imposed, but there was not an economic crisis, two wars, and other issues. You also have to look at it from another way, which I already know you won't, but anywho... Regardless of economic, regional, or racial, which was the last topic of civil rights, differences, homosexuality is not seen as race is.

    You really think the public is more accepting? That was quite obvious in the Proposition 8 vote, wasn't it?

    DADT and DOMA are not in the top priorities for the country overall, and to be blunt, at this time, shouldn't be.




    To gay people, apparently they are. At least we would all be equal in poverty and attacks against the infidels.
    Thanks for the eyeroll. My civil rights are just as important, do you think that blacks would have taken that crap back in the fifties if they were told, "oh the Cold War is more important, Vietnam is more important, etc.etc. ??? You think we were not in a war in the 1960's??
    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    considering it's about US citizens, you're fucking right it's more important.



    Right, says someone who has all their rights. You have no perspective.

    I love all the breeders saying "there are more important things".

    Not to gays there isn't. Realize that. Being a second class citizen is IT. People with all their rights intact, telling those that do not that there are more important things? LOL

    Maybe if all the straight assholes weren't opposing gays at every turn THE PROCESS WOULD GO A LOT EASIER like it has in other more civilized nations, and it could be over and done with... but NOO.. it has to be a huge fight because of STRAIGHT PEOPLE.

    So maybe if they just politely fucked off and kept their noses in their own business for a change, the "more important" things could be dealt with without some other oppressed minority fucking things up by DARING to fight for their god given equal rights at the same time. So sorry to have inconvenienced you all.

    Jesus fucking christ, that's fucking sad.

    Sit down, be quiet, there are more important things.

    Sure. I'll go back in time and let the blacks and the women and the aboriginals and everybody else know that there's more important things to deal with according to the group THAT HAS ALL THE RIGHTS IT COULD EVER WANT.

    Asinine.
    I agree with the sentiments of this post. I may not agree with the realistic timing, but the outrage at 'well you should just have to wait" is right there. We may have to wait, matters being beyond our control, but it if we have to wait, it is a national disgrace.
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    Elite Member bychance's Avatar
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    OHHHHHHHHHHHH sorry, I didn't know gay people were enslaved for hundreds of years in this country solely for the sexuality! And couldn't vote until until the 1960s...

    You can't compare the civil rights of Blacks/African Americans to the situation with homosexuals, as if it is of the same magnitude.

  4. #19
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    gay people have been oppressed and subjugated in most cultures SINCE THE BEGINNING OF TIME

    Read up on interracial marriage before you continue embarrassing yourself.

    This has already been done here before, and by better people. Blacks had some rights gays did not, and gays had some rights blacks did not.. unless you were a black gay person, THEN YOU HAD NOTHING

    You forget yourself, gays cross all ethnicities and racial boundaries. Remember that fact. We're still not free. You had your emancipation.. you know, unless you're black AND gay, then you've only been half emancipated.

    We've still waiting since the time of the Romans, and probably before.

    Even then, I suppose you should have waited longer to be able to vote, right? Are you advocating that now? Noo, you aren't. There were probably more important things going on in the 60's bedies blacks getting the vote, didn't you know?

    Amazing how perspective changes when you're directly affected.

    Seriously, libraries await you. Please avail yourself of them. Most notably, the history section.
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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Homosexual sex was still a crime in some states until 2003.....and most didn't repeal them until the 1970's

    That's what the Stonewall riots were about. The cops went into the bar to arrest gay men.
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    Silver Member gardenofeve's Avatar
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    Gawd, can we not get into a pissing war of who's had it worse? I say this as a descendant of slaves and native people, and as a woman.

    The civil rights movement happened through times of huge upheaval, lots of change, I think that is part of the reason it worked.

    I think now is a great time to get same sex marriage in everyone's face and keep it there, but I don't think it's going to happen if it's left up to legislators. Complaining that Obama hasn't done anything is not going to do anything. He's got to convince the majority of elected representatives, and the only way he is going to do that is if they start to believe that their seats are going to be in jeopardy if they keep up with this bigoted crap. I've seen protests and shit, but it's not enough. People have to get organized, get big, get louder than all the assholes trying to smash gay rights. They need to engage all those fence sitters and apathetic people and get them moving. And really, compared to what people in the past have done, organizing and coordinating protests nationwide with barely TV (as we know it) available to them, there's no excuse.

    I'm sorry, I'm sounding Pollyannaish, but as much as I see good work happening, I think there needs to be more, way more. There is this sense of urgency because there is such a short time frame to make it undeniably clear that a majority of people are for same sex rights before the pendulum swings the other way.

  7. #22
    Elite Member sparkly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bychance View Post
    OHHHHHHHHHHHH sorry, I didn't know gay people were enslaved for hundreds of years in this country solely for the sexuality! And couldn't vote until until the 1960s...

    You can't compare the civil rights of Blacks/African Americans to the situation with homosexuals, as if it is of the same magnitude.
    Yeah and it's 2009 and here we are voting over whether or not gays should have the right to be treated like the rest of us. So what's your point? Lots of different ethnic groups have been enslaved throughout history, and yes, it is proof of how primitive the human race is, but that has nothing to do with gays deserving equal rights.
    Everyone is entitled to be stupid, but some abuse the privilege.

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Yes, i agree. One way is to threaten to with-hold funds from the DNC when they come a callin' and tell them exactly WHY.

    Nothing makes people move faster than 30 million people saying they aren't giving a party 1 red cent till their issues are dealt with.

    That's starting up right now
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    Silver Member gardenofeve's Avatar
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    There's a start. Now more. *g*

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    Quote Originally Posted by gardenofeve View Post
    Gawd, can we not get into a pissing war of who's had it worse? I say this as a descendant of slaves and native people, and as a woman.

    The civil rights movement happened through times of huge upheaval, lots of change, I think that is part of the reason it worked.

    I think now is a great time to get same sex marriage in everyone's face and keep it there, but I don't think it's going to happen if it's left up to legislators. Complaining that Obama hasn't done anything is not going to do anything. He's got to convince the majority of elected representatives, and the only way he is going to do that is if they start to believe that their seats are going to be in jeopardy if they keep up with this bigoted crap. I've seen protests and shit, but it's not enough. People have to get organized, get big, get louder than all the assholes trying to smash gay rights. They need to engage all those fence sitters and apathetic people and get them moving. And really, compared to what people in the past have done, organizing and coordinating protests nationwide with barely TV (as we know it) available to them, there's no excuse.

    I'm sorry, I'm sounding Pollyannaish, but as much as I see good work happening, I think there needs to be more, way more. There is this sense of urgency because there is such a short time frame to make it undeniably clear that a majority of people are for same sex rights before the pendulum swings the other way.
    Well said.

    The fact is any civil rights movement will never get any results without consistent and constant pressure on the larger society as a whole. So, waiting on Obama or any other politician to pick up the standard is an exercise in futility. Because without any ongoing pressure what's the incentive for Washington and the larger society to change?

    Blacks in the 60's couldn't wait for Kennedy or Washington to get on board with the civil rights movement, and gays can't wait for Obama and Washington to get on board now. Kennedy had to be dragged into the civil rights movement because he was focused on the Cold War, Vietnam, the space program, etc.

  11. #26
    Elite Member RevellingInSane's Avatar
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    Yes, gay people want their rights. Stop trying to make this a case of who has had it worse. The history of blacks in this country and the history of gays throughout the world are not the same. Take this struggle as your own. Be prepared to apply steady pressure for years. Expecting one entity to pick up the fight and win it for you, which did not happen with the Civil Rights movement, is ridiculous. This is a process, which requires organization, perseverance, what is obviously the most lacking thus for, strategy, and the most difficult of all, changing the minds of the citizens as a whole. You seem to forget politicians represent their constituents and will not do something that drastically opposes what the voters who put them in office want.

    Push it right now. Go ahead. The voters have shown they won't support it. The legislators don't give a rat's ass about it and dont seem to focused on repealing DOMA or DADT, and the White House is not going to rock the boat. The Supreme Court could have handed down a decision on many cases it could have taken, yet has ignored them. Cali voters supported Prop 8 and the State Court backed it.

    For once and for all, to those who are saying now is the time, exactly what arena do you see as even giving you a chance to get what you want right now? Which branch?

    Thanks for the eyeroll yourself Soj. Until gay people can see the movement is not supported enough by any venue at this time and forcing a decision is only going to result in a defeat, what more is their to say? This is not a case of you being able to obtain your rights and just being ignored. At this time, whether you like to admit it or not, those rights are unobtainable on a FEDERAL level, since no branch of the federal government cares to involve itself and assist in the change. You want. You plea. No one who can do anything about it will and gays get pissed off when the obvious is pointed out.



  12. #27
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevellingInSane View Post
    Yes, gay people want their rights. Stop trying to make this a case of who has had it worse. The history of blacks in this country and the history of gays throughout the world are not the same. Take this struggle as your own.
    Yes yes, don't want to be mixed in with the icky gays, we know, but the black gays are so suck it up and get over it...

    Push it. Go ahead. The voters have shown they won't support it. The legislators don't give a rat's ass about it and dont seem to focused on repealing DOMA or DADT, and the White House is not going to rock the boat. The Supreme Court could have handed down a decision on many cases it could have taken, yet has ignored them. Cali voters supported Prop 8 and the State Court backed it.

    For once and for all, to those who are saying now is the time, exactly what arena do you see as even giving you a chance to get what you want right now? Which branch?
    As gay marriage rolls on state by state they won't have much of a choice considering DOMA will basically invalidate states rights (or try to) in this area.

    Thanks for the eyeroll yourself Soj. Until gay people can see the movement is not supported enough by any venue at this time and forcing a decision is only going to result in a defeat, what more is their to say? This is not a case of you being able to obtain your rights and just being ignored. At this time, whether you like to admit it or not, those rights are unobtainable on a FEDERAL level, since no branch of the federal government cares to involve itself and assist in the change. You want. You plea. No one who can do anything about it will and gays get pissed off when the obvious is pointed out.
    see above, there are also pending lawsuits at various supreme courts in various states..
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    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by bychance View Post
    OHHHHHHHHHHHH sorry, I didn't know gay people were enslaved for hundreds of years in this country solely for the sexuality! And couldn't vote until until the 1960s...

    You can't compare the civil rights of Blacks/African Americans to the situation with homosexuals, as if it is of the same magnitude.

    Oh the Hell you can't. Who says? There are way more hate crimes reported against gays than blacks NOW, given the percentages of the population represented. Hell at least Blacks were acknowledged and (usually) allowed to live, hell gays were denied as existing, and if they came forward they usually were given hell for it, if not killed(still happening today, see Iran).

    If gays were born with a big pink 'G' on their foreheads for easy identification we would have had thousands of years of extermination. Get your head out of your ass, perchance bychance.

    Your civil rights are not more important than mine because you are black and I am gay-they are equally important, and of the same magnitude IMO, and the gays who are also black who I have known agree with the sentiment.
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  14. #29
    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevellingInSane View Post
    Yes, gay people want their rights. Stop trying to make this a case of who has had it worse. The history of blacks in this country and the history of gays throughout the world are not the same. Take this struggle as your own. Be prepared to apply steady pressure for years. Expecting one entity to pick up the fight and win it for you, which did not happen with the Civil Rights movement, is ridiculous. This is a process, which requires organization, perseverance, what is obviously the most lacking thus for, strategy, and the most difficult of all, changing the minds of the citizens as a whole. You seem to forget politicians represent their constituents and will not do something that drastically opposes what the voters who put them in office want.

    Push it right now. Go ahead. The voters have shown they won't support it. The legislators don't give a rat's ass about it and dont seem to focused on repealing DOMA or DADT, and the White House is not going to rock the boat. The Supreme Court could have handed down a decision on many cases it could have taken, yet has ignored them. Cali voters supported Prop 8 and the State Court backed it.

    For once and for all, to those who are saying now is the time, exactly what arena do you see as even giving you a chance to get what you want right now? Which branch?

    Thanks for the eyeroll yourself Soj. Until gay people can see the movement is not supported enough by any venue at this time and forcing a decision is only going to result in a defeat, what more is their to say? This is not a case of you being able to obtain your rights and just being ignored. At this time, whether you like to admit it or not, those rights are unobtainable on a FEDERAL level, since no branch of the federal government cares to involve itself and assist in the change. You want. You plea. No one who can do anything about it will and gays get pissed off when the obvious is pointed out.

    right back atcha, Reveling. and this:
    DADT and DOMA are not in the top priorities for the country overall, and to be blunt, at this time, shouldn't be.
    is what the eyeroll was about. You are stating that you ARE the opposition, dammit. I am pissed off not because you think it is not possible at this time, but because you AGREE that it SHOULD not be possible at this time, by your own damn statement. Get it now?
    Don't slap me, cause I'm not in the mood!

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    Elite Member RevellingInSane's Avatar
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    Do you understand the FEDERAL, keyword there, SUPREME COURT chooseswhich cases it will hear? Do you also understand that a STATE Supreme Court has no bearing outside the boundaries of said state? So you would be happy with a handful of states accepting it? Or am I to understand that most members of the gay rights movement want FEDERAL level laws? No, even if 49 states legalize gay marriage, the one holding out can not be forced to acknowledge the union, so what is your point on STATE LEVEL legislation again?

    Do you understand that even if 20 states recognize gay marriage, states will have the right to ignore said marriages? You better read up on the wording of some of the state legislation in states that voted to ban it already. They prepared for this and worded the laws accordingly.

    Sorry, but being gay and ethnicity aren't the same. Gay may cut across every sector of society, but it has been seen negatively in almost every society since the darn of civilization, whether European, African, Asian, etc. Your point?

    Some states will allow it. Some won't. Without federal intervention, you will have nothing more than a few oases. Without federalintervention, DADT will go nowhere. So what are you truly gaining when a mere state says it will change its laws?



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