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Thread: Obama picks anti-gay Prop 8 pusher for invocation at inauguration - gays apoplectic

  1. #121
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Obama may not believe in gay marriage, but he's not for a ban on it either.

    Gays who backed Obama can't be too upset about his stance on gay marriage, when he made it clear for months before the election where he stood on the issue.

  2. #122
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    How can you not be for something, but not ban it. Wtf is that.

    If you're not for it, then obviously you dont support the idea... so whether or not you want to ban it outright is irrelevant.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  3. #123
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    So Grimm, can I just ask a question? If Obama had come right out and said I'm going to have this guy at the innauguration, No gay marriage, etc would you have banged the drum for him at all? Because I know you were one of his biggest supporters. Marriage Equality Now We're all citizens (except Grimm). We should all enjoy the same rights.

  4. #124
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    He's still better than McTard, but at least with McTard you know what you're getting instead of the mealymouthed Democrat issue avoidance.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  5. #125
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    Good grief, anything less than Hitler is better than the GOP candidate, regardless of who that is!

  6. #126
    Elite Member Fluffy's Avatar
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    19 Dec 2008 12:40 pm
    Taking Yes For An Answer

    Dish readers will know my own conflicted feelings about the selection of Rick Warren for the Inaugural Invocation. But feelings must at some point cede to reason. And I sense an understandable but, the more I think about it, misjudged response on the part of my fellow gays and lesbians. In our hurt, we may be pushing away from a real opportunity to engage and win hearts and minds. Here's Glenn Greenwald:
    Reasonable arguments can certainly be advanced in defense of the virtues of Obama's post-partisan theory of politics. But it's simply unreasonable to depict any of it as new. It's exactly what Democrats have been clinging to, desperately and mostly with futility, for two decades at least.
    I disagree. I think Obama is different. I think the earnestness and sincerity of his campaign, and its generational force, have given us a chance for something new, and I fear that in responding too viscerally to the Warren choice, we may be throwing something very valuable away far too prematurely. There is no question that gays and lesbians have made enormous strides in explaining who we are in the last couple of decades. There is equally no question that Obama has substantively committed his administration to more gay inclusion and gay equality than any president in history. We absolutely do need to be vigilant on this. But we should also understand Obama's attempt to bridge some gaps in America that the Clintons, with their boomer baggage and Dick Morris cynicism, couldn't and didn't. This is what matters. Do gays and lesbians want to be a part of this - or sit fuming on the sidelines at symbolic slights?

    I know the arguments against this, and if Obama delivers nothing on gay equality, the critics will have every reason to complain loudly, as they should. But I'm not going there yet. And the truth is: if we cannot engage a Rick Warren on the question of our equality, we may secure a narrow and bitter victory in some states (just as the Christianists won a narrow and bitter victory in California in November). But we will not win the bigger argument and our victories will lack the moral legitimacy they deserve.
    The greatest distortion of our politics in this respect is the notion that gays are in some way opposed to faith and in some way that our cause is a function solely of the left. Neither is true.

    Gay people contribute disproportionately to the religious and spiritual life of this country and we seek no attack on free religion freely expressed and celebrated. I find the idea of silencing my opponents abhorrent. Many gays voted for McCain. I believe in family, which is why I have tried my whole life to integrate my sexual orientation with my own family and finally two summers ago, to become a full part of it as a married man. I love my church, however much pain it still inflicts on itself and others. And I am not alone in this, as I have discovered these past two decades.

    If I cannot pray with Rick Warren, I realize, then I am not worthy of being called a Christian. And if I cannot engage him, then I am not worthy of being called a writer. And if we cannot work with Obama to bridge these divides, none of us will be worthy of the great moral cause that this civil rights movement truly is.

    The bitterness endures; the hurt doesn't go away; the pain is real. But that is when we need to engage the most, to overcome our feelings to engage in the larger project, to understand that not all our opponents are driven by hate, even though that may be how their words impact us. To turn away from such dialogue is to fail ourselves, to fail our gay brothers and sisters in red state America, and to miss the possibility of the Obama moment.

    It can be hard to take yes for an answer. But yes is what Obama is saying. And we should not let our pride or our pain get in the way.

    The Daily Dish | By Andrew Sullivan (December 19, 2008) - Taking Yes For An Answer

  7. #127
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    uhhuh, and when is Obama going to push for gay marriage? Probably never.
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  8. #128
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Obama could push for gay marriage tomorrow and it wouldn't change anything. Because most of the people in Congress, Democrat and Republican, don't support gay marriage and they wouldn't back him on it. And most of the conservatives on the Supreme Court wouldn't support Obama on gay marriage either.

    For gay marriage to become legal, it's going to take more than a president to support it. Clinton tried to push for gays in the military, and Congress and the military blocked that.

  9. #129
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    My friend Chris, who's been involved in DC politics for probably as long as me, is starting to see a larger, more disturbing, pattern. He just wrote me the following:


    You know that I’m less likely than you to read bad signs into things, but I have to say that the last couple of days have been pretty bad on the Obama front.

    Rick Warren was disturbing, but potentially a tactically useful move, so I was willing to cut Obama some slack. But it’s worrying to me that neither one of the unambiguously qualified potential gay appointees actually got an appointment.

    I can’t speak to Mary Beth Maxwell because I’ve never met her and our paths haven’t crossed. I’m sure she’s terrific; I just can’t personally vouch for that.

    The fact that John Berry got passed over for Interior really bites – he’s the best there is, knows the Interior Department like the back of his hand and has already been through Senate confirmation previously. I’m sure Ken Salazar has his good points, but somebody needs to tell him it’s rude to wear a hat at a press conference. If you have to have a straight Secretary of the Interior, couldn’t he at least avoid being tacky?

    But the one that gets me is SBA. Fred Hochberg has worked his ass off for Obama, he’s on the transition team, and he’s the former Deputy Administrator at SBA. The nomination that got made – well, I’m sure she’s fine, and I hope she does well, but there’s nothing compelling about her appointment.

    It’s the same with Salazar – with Solis’ nomination, especially, there was no compelling need for another Latino appointment, but I acknowledge the political benefit. But that’s not true with SBA, and what happened there makes me question the Interior appointment, too. I can’t think of any common reasoning on these appointments except “anybody but the gay guy.”



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    but hey.. nothin to worry about...
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  10. #130
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Wasn't there talk that Obama was going to pick an openly gay person for the Secretary of the Navy?

  11. #131
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    talk is cheap.
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  12. #132
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Good point. Actions speak louder than words.

  13. #133
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    seems even Biden is backing away from the GLBT promises this morning..

    This morning now, we hear Biden edging away from GLBT campaign promises. Oh sure we'll keep our promises, he says, just not right away. Bigger fish to fry. Economy. Infrastructure. Etc. When would there be a better time to insert provisions overturning DOMA and DADT than in such a huge spending bill that everyone is so desperate to have? The Conservatives will vote their wallets not their Bibles, so now is the time to do this, not in some gauzy future second term. If they mean their campaign promises they will do it this way.. If they mean to hang us out to dry, they'll "defer" it (forever). This is why it is imperative to rattle every cage we can at the first sign of betrayal. Nip it in the bud.

    AMERICAblog News| A great nation deserves the truth
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  14. #134
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    The Conservatives will vote their wallets not their Bibles, so now is the time to do this, not in some gauzy future second term.
    That's not entirely true. If Republicans were concerned about doing the right thing, then they wouldn't have blocked the auto bailout just as a way to kill the unions, despite knowing that millions of jobs hung in the balance. So, that's a big assumption that they wouldn't vote with their Bibles.

  15. #135
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Killing unions helps their buddies who run corporations. That's voting with wallets.
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