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Thread: New Hampshire Primaries come to an end; precincts start reporting

  1. #151
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacific breeze View Post
    I would it's more likely that people wouldn't back Hillary because she's Bill's wife, not the other way around.

    I can't imagine voting against a candidate because anybody, let alone a celeb like Oprah that I've never met, supports them. I think for myself and if I could vote in the U.S. election, I would vote for Hillary, flaws and all. She's by far the smartest, most experienced and most politically savvy candidate. I would never count her out -- she's overcome a lot of obstacles and has the ability to deal effectively with foreign policy AND domestic issues.
    Nobody's saying Hillary doesn't have the brains or the ability. The problem is she's HATED by a good deal of people in this country. And that goes back to the early 90's when Bill first became president. I mean, I know Republicans who dislike Bill, but hate Hillary with a passion. So, if Hillary wants to become president, she's going to have get on the ball and start changing a lot of peoples' opinion of her. And I don't see her being able to sway people who have such an entrenched hatred toward her.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    Nobody's saying Hillary doesn't have the brains or the ability. The problem is she's HATED by a good deal of people in this country. And that goes back to the early 90's when Bill first became president. I mean, I know Republicans who dislike Bill, but hate Hillary with a passion. So, if Hillary wants to become president, she's going to have get on the ball and start changing a lot of peoples' opinion of her. And I don't see her being able to sway people who have such an entrenched hatred toward her.
    If their minds aren't changed by now, it's not happening before November! Also, her campaigns antics as of late is turning staunch Hilary supporters against her, now!!
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    I find it amusing watching obama preaching about "change" and ending the war in iraq. Hmmm, weren't they talking about doing this, ohhh, like four freaking years ago? All these politicians, what a joke!

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    Quote Originally Posted by celeb_2006 View Post
    I find it amusing watching obama preaching about "change" and ending the war in iraq. Hmmm, weren't they talking about doing this, ohhh, like four freaking years ago? All these politicians, what a joke!
    It is rather amusing since neither George Bush mentioned nothing about change, and John Kerry was apart of the establishment I don't think that would've been his thing either. Now, the Iraq war is something different since Kerry was screaming he was it, but didn't have an exit strategy. Also, Kerry was yelling social security, and drugs from Canada. Obama isn't like Kerry, Edwards, or even Clinton...
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    Elite Member Mr. Authority's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    Nobody's saying Hillary doesn't have the brains or the ability. The problem is she's HATED by a good deal of people in this country. And that goes back to the early 90's when Bill first became president. I mean, I know Republicans who dislike Bill, but hate Hillary with a passion. So, if Hillary wants to become president, she's going to have get on the ball and start changing a lot of peoples' opinion of her. And I don't see her being able to sway people who have such an entrenched hatred toward her.
    Truer words have never been spoken. That's why I worry if she gets the Dem nom because there are so many people that hate her opinions and politics that they'll (Stupidly) vote against her for another repuke president. Not only that but there are some liberals that dislike her centrist views and connections with corporations that fund her campaign. I myself believe she's a good woman, but not the kind of president that would bring much needed progressive change to the US. It's a lose-lose for Hillary.

    Myself, I was hoping for Obama or Edwards to take N.H. but the election is still not over so people should'nt worry...I think.

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    Elite Member Cali's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSDiva View Post
    If their minds aren't changed by now, it's not happening before November! Also, her campaigns antics as of late is turning staunch Hilary supporters against her, now!!
    Seriously. Even if I wasnt an Obama supporter, I would have been offended by Bill Clinton's remarks about him. Bill just came off as petty and pedantic. Like they were grasping at straws - it really betrayed the true sense of desperation that campaign was feeling then.

    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    So, if Hillary wants to become president, she's going to have get on the ball and start changing a lot of peoples' opinion of her. And I don't see her being able to sway people who have such an entrenched hatred toward her.
    I absolutely agree. I ADORE Bill Clinton, but I have grown to really dislike Hilary. Around the time when her book came out, I liked her, I even bought it and read it. But over the years, I have come to really distrust her. I feel that every single word and expression and tactic that comes out of Hilary is not authentic. She's such a political strategiest, to the point of having no unique identity of her own, in my opinion. I feel like everything she says is in response to XYZ data survey that said that voters would be more likely to vote for a woman who wore orange on Sunday. And so she follows that data. She's so responsive to and focused on poll data and surveys that I feel I have no idea what her actual values and priorities are.

    Her only chance of changing my mind is to fully drop this song-and-dance and be HER. Not all the time, I know that focus-group tested lines have their place in politics. But I just feel like she NEVER has a candid moment. Even her seemingly candid moments are scripted. I feel like Hilary lives and dies by the results of her latest polls: what the polls say, she does, period. I've yet to see the 'real' Hilary, to the point that I'm not so sure that she even exists.

    I really feel that Obama is the antithesis of Hilary. I know he's got his polls and focus groups, but they aren't his overarching concern.

    so thats my long-winded explaination of the history of my anti-Hilary sentiment.

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    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSDiva View Post
    If their minds aren't changed by now, it's not happening before November! Also, her campaigns antics as of late is turning staunch Hilary supporters against her, now!!
    Exactly. People have been hating Hillary for over 15 years now. And that doesn't look like it's going to change anytime soon. Once a politician is hated by a large group of people, it's hard to come back from that.

    Quote Originally Posted by SSDiva View Post
    It is rather amusing since neither George Bush mentioned nothing about change, and John Kerry was apart of the establishment I don't think that would've been his thing either. Now, the Iraq war is something different since Kerry was screaming he was it, but didn't have an exit strategy. Also, Kerry was yelling social security, and drugs from Canada. Obama isn't like Kerry, Edwards, or even Clinton...
    To me, John Kerry proved he wasn't fit to be president based on the fact that he allowed a draft-dodger like George Bush, and those swift boat assholes, to call his military service into question and make him look bad. I was like, are you kidding me? A war veteran can't shut down a draft-dodger?

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Authority View Post
    Truer words have never been spoken. That's why I worry if she gets the Dem nom because there are so many people that hate her opinions and politics that they'll (Stupidly) vote against her for another repuke president. Not only that but there are some liberals that dislike her centrist views and connections with corporations that fund her campaign. I myself believe she's a good woman, but not the kind of president that would bring much needed progressive change to the US. It's a lose-lose for Hillary.

    Myself, I was hoping for Obama or Edwards to take N.H. but the election is still not over so people should'nt worry...I think.
    Yeah, I think Hillary's a good woman, and she has some good ideas. And you're right, I don't think she has what it takes to bring about true progressive change. I mean, Hillary's been plotting her road to the presidency since Bill first became president.

    As far as N.H. goes, even though Hillary won, it was by a small margin. I mean Obama and Huckabee won in Iowa, but Huckabee wasn't even a factor in N.H. Meanwhile Obama stayed strong and came in a close second behind Hillary, who wasn't a big factor in Iowa. So, I think that shows that Obama has more staying power than Hillary.

    Quote Originally Posted by Calimoonchild View Post
    I absolutely agree. I ADORE Bill Clinton, but I have grown to really dislike Hilary. Around the time when her book came out, I liked her, I even bought it and read it. But over the years, I have come to really distrust her. I feel that every single word and expression and tactic that comes out of Hilary is not authentic. She's such a political strategiest, to the point of having no unique identity of her own, in my opinion. I feel like everything she says is in response to XYZ data survey that said that voters would be more likely to vote for a woman who wore orange on Sunday. And so she follows that data. She's so responsive to and focused on poll data and surveys that I feel I have no idea what her actual values and priorities are.

    Her only chance of changing my mind is to fully drop this song-and-dance and be HER. Not all the time, I know that focus-group tested lines have their place in politics. But I just feel like she NEVER has a candid moment. Even her seemingly candid moments are scripted. I feel like Hilary lives and dies by the results of her latest polls: what the polls say, she does, period. I've yet to see the 'real' Hilary, to the point that I'm not so sure that she even exists.

    I really feel that Obama is the antithesis of Hilary. I know he's got his polls and focus groups, but they aren't his overarching concern.

    so thats my long-winded explaination of the history of my anti-Hilary sentiment.
    And in that way, she's just like Bush and the old guard politicians. They still keep following the same outdated strategies, which clearly don't work anymore. And, you're right, Hillary does seem to go by what her advisors are telling her to do, no matter what, rather than just going with her gut instincts, which is why she comes off as cold and stiff.
    Last edited by Tati; January 11th, 2008 at 07:41 PM.

  8. #158
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    i never understood the irrational hatred some people have for hilary. and all because she's unabashedly ambitious, smart, outspoken, and when bill was in office, instead of being a stepford first lady like laura bush, she actually went to work on important issues, instead of sticking to lame harmless things like charities and other 'ladylike' work.
    and that pissed people off. because people suck and they're not willing to tolerate some things in a woman that they'd have no trouble accepting in a man.
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    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    i never understood the irrational hatred some people have for hilary. and all because she's unabashedly ambitious, smart, outspoken, and when bill was in office, instead of being a stepford first lady like laura bush, she actually went to work on important issues, instead of sticking to lame harmless things like charities and other 'ladylike' work.
    and that pissed people off. because people suck and they're not willing to tolerate some things in a woman that they'd have no trouble accepting in a man.
    I agree 100%. The thing is, so few are willing to admit that her being a woman is partly why they view her so negatively. Interestingly, I've never heard of a man be referred to as 'overly ambitious'.....because, for a man there is no such concept.

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    Quote Originally Posted by crumpet View Post
    Interestingly, I've never heard of a man be referred to as 'overly ambitious'.....because, for a man there is no such concept.
    LOL! So true!

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    Quote Originally Posted by crumpet View Post
    I agree 100%. The thing is, so few are willing to admit that her being a woman is partly why they view her so negatively. Interestingly, I've never heard of a man be referred to as 'overly ambitious'.....because, for a man there is no such concept.
    exactly. a man is ambitious and it's a good thing. but when it's a woman, she's a pushy bitch, a shrew, etc...
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    exactly. a man is ambitious and it's a good thing. but when it's a woman, she's a pushy bitch, a shrew, etc...
    ...not to mention a ball-buster, cold and the apparent kiss of death, 'unfeminine'.

    Whatever. I don't really like Hilary because I don't really like Bill, dating back from their foreign policy. Of course, that was before Bush just redefined the words 'bad foreign policy' and made Clinton look pretty good indeed.

    I do trust her more than Obama though. Yes, she lacks his public speaking skills, but personally, I'm wary of grand statements and find Hilary's more practical rhetoric far more realistic. I've also had a quick look at some of their views, and Obama seem to ring some major 'religious nutter' alarms with some comments (on the topic of abortion in particular, he thinks women should decide in conjunction with their doctors and clergy). Her greater experience is a major plus for her too.

    And please, she's not alone in her ambition. You don't freakin' get into politics, let alone run for president without ambition. The finger is pointed at Hilary because that's not how Nice Women are.
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    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik View Post
    i never understood the irrational hatred some people have for hilary. and all because she's unabashedly ambitious, smart, outspoken, and when bill was in office, instead of being a stepford first lady like laura bush, she actually went to work on important issues, instead of sticking to lame harmless things like charities and other 'ladylike' work.
    and that pissed people off. because people suck and they're not willing to tolerate some things in a woman that they'd have no trouble accepting in a man.
    I think that was the problem right there. Even though I like Hillary, I had a problem with her working on health care. Not because she was suppose to be a 'stepford wife', but because she wasn't qualified to work on those issues. Hillary was not a politician. And that rubbed people the wrong way because it gave the impression that when they elected Bill Clinton, they got a 2-for-1 deal.

    Now, true, I think some people hated seeing a smart, strong woman period. I know that wasn't the case with me, because my mother is a strong, smart woman, and so are all of the women in my family. But, then again, I never hated Hillary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    I think that was the problem right there. Even though I like Hillary, I had a problem with her working on health care. Not because she was suppose to be a 'stepford wife', but because she wasn't qualified to work on those issues. Hillary was not a politician. And that rubbed people the wrong way because it gave the impression that when they elected Bill Clinton, they got a 2-for-1 deal.

    Now, true, I think some people hated seeing a smart, strong woman period. I know that wasn't the case with me, because my mother is a strong, smart woman, and so are all of the women in my family. But, then again, I never hated Hillary.
    I truly admire Hilary for being smart, strong etc.. That's not the reason I am starting to dislike her now. I HATE weak women with a passion(had to many strong women who raised me). Her actions and her campaign strategy has turned me against her! And don't let me start in on Bill, and how my admiration for him has soured also!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by SSDiva View Post
    I truly admire Hilary for being smart, strong etc.. That's not the reason I am starting to dislike her now. I HATE weak women with a passion(had to many strong women who raised me). Her actions and her campaign strategy has turned me against her! And don't let me start in on Bill, and how my admiration for him has soured also!!
    Same here. While I admire Bill and Hillary, I'm starting to get turned off to their campaign tactics. But I think Bill would be backing Obama with a vengeance if it wasn't for Hillary leading him around by the short hairs.

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