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Thread: Live US Election 2012 Thread

  1. #436
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Third party votes can make changes to main party policy. FDR got the message from the votes that had gone to the socialist party in the 30's, and added some parts - Social Security and Unemployment aid to his policies. So while the third party candidate may not win, their ideas may come to fruition if enough people back them.

    Women's suffrage, graduated income tax, child labor laws and the forty-hour work week were all parts of third party platforms that were adopted by the main parties this way.



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  2. #437
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mel1973 View Post
    What a mess. I'm so tired of hearing "the lesser of two evils". Everyone DOES know that there could have been more than two fucking options, right? Neither one of those bastards should be president.
    You could make that argument, but the statistical reality was that, without a doubt, one of those bastards WOULD be president. And that one of them would beat the other by only a slim margin (in the popular vote). If someone was rightly concerned at how Romney would conduct himself in office as he took the reins from Obama, it made eminent sense for that person to vote for Romney and against Obama, and especially in a battleground state -- even if they didn't particularly like Obama.

    Every day, people are confronted with less than ideal choices, and have to choose the one that is more palatable.
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  3. #438
    Elite Member Mel1973's Avatar
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    sorry, neither is palatable to me. fuck 'em, I took my vote elsewhere!
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  4. #439
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  5. #440
    Elite Member greysfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sluce View Post
    Until there is a true 3rd party option, I will not throw away my vote. I understand your point that if we don't start to vote for the other parties, these 3 will remain in charge. But realistically, if you know they do not have a chance, your vote is taking away from another candidate. I often wonder if Gore would have beat Bush if it were not for the votes that went to Nader.
    .

    And this is the reason we're still stuck with a two-party system, because everyone is afraid to "waste" their vote.
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  6. #441
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    I'm not young enough to think we'd get a real leftist. I'd settle for someone who isn't to the right of Nixon.
    there's been a shift to the right in recent years both in the democratic and republican parties. i think it's hilarious that americans refer to the democratic party as the 'left' when there is nothing leftist about it and anywhere else in the world, the democrats would be considered centre-right.
    anyway, my point is, the shift is to the right and if a viable third option emerges in the current climate, it will be the tea party if they break away from republicans and form a political party.

    Quote Originally Posted by sluce View Post
    Until there is a true 3rd party option, I will not throw away my vote. I understand your point that if we don't start to vote for the other parties, these 3 will remain in charge. But realistically, if you know they do not have a chance, your vote is taking away from another candidate. I often wonder if Gore would have beat Bush if it were not for the votes that went to Nader.

    There is another part of me that feels we really do have 3 parties now. The Tea Party people have highjacked the Republicans. They should be their own party - no ties to repubs or Dems at all. In reality - that would decimate the Repubs though.

    Christmas at my Moms will be interesting this year because my asshole little brother is engaged to a bitch who is openly racist. She is hard core Pro-life, and a judgemental cunt. Last night she started about how Obama stole the election by getting those illegal Mexicans to vote. LOL Then she went on about how God must be crying because Maryland and Maine will allow those people to marry and more of her religion. I lost it. I told her that I am happy her faith is important to her but that she needs to learn that HER God has no place in OUR government. Then I went over the top (couldn't control it anymore) and asked her what she thought God thinks about her sleeping with my borther while he was married to another woman and how God feels about her living in sin with him now, and how God would feel about her being a racist and hating some of his children. As started crying and I told her to take a long look in the mirror and to shut her mouth about HER God until she could live the pure live she claims God wants. I feel bad that it creates more stress for my Mom but she was actually happy I said all she has been thinking.
    sluce, that is fucking awesome. i'm so glad you made that racist, homophobic, jesus-tard bitch cry.
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  7. #442
    Elite Member HWBL's Avatar
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    Source: CNN.com

    Obama's critics, repudiated at last
    By LZ Granderson, CNN Contributor


    Editor's note: LZ Granderson, who writes a weekly column for CNN.com, was named journalist of the year by the National Lesbian and Gay Journalists Association and is a 2011 Online Journalism Award finalist for commentary. He is a senior writer and columnist for ESPN the Magazine and ESPN.com. Follow him on Twitter: @locs_n_laughs

    (CNN) -- "Take our country back."

    Almost as soon as Barack Obama became president four years ago, we began hearing that phrase, as if black folks had stolen the White House. Each time I see one of those "Take Our Country Back" signs on someone's lawn, I want to knock on the door and ask, "from whom?"

    From whom are you trying to take this country back?

    But I don't, because I already know the answer.

    It's the same answer to the question of why so many people still don't believe that President Obama was born in the United States. Or why they continue to question his faith or why Donald Trump feels comfortable insulting the office by promising his pocket change in exchange for Obama's college transcripts, as if the president is a stripper desperate for singles.

    He and his kind are so pathetic.

    They don't just disagree with him. They disrespect him, because in their minds, he's not supposed to be there. He got a handout. He's not a real American. Something about him ain't ... quite ... right.

    So when he was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize, his critics spent more time discrediting the importance of the award than congratulating him for winning it.

    When unemployment fell under 8%, they accused the Obama administration of fixing the numbers.

    When the president opted to campaign instead of surveying the damage caused by Hurricane Isaac sooner, he was called selfish. When Obama left the campaign trail to survey the damage caused by Hurricane Sandy, former FEMA Director Michael Brown criticized him for responding too quickly.

    Nothing he did was good enough for them.

    But on Tuesday, it was good enough for the majority of real Americans.

    We watched then-congressman Pete Hoekstra call the stimulus package a failure and then show up for a groundbreaking ceremony for a manufacturing plant made possible by the stimulus. We saw Texas Gov. Rick Perry call the stimulus a waste during debates while quietly using stimulus money to balance his state's budget. Rep. Paul Ryan, the supposed numbers man of the Republican Party, repeatedly called the stimulus a wasteful spending spree, and then we found out he wrote letters asking for stimulus money in his district (PDF), because according to him, it would "stimulate the local and area economy by creating new jobs."

    It was hard for real Americans to take criticism of the Recovery Act seriously when those doing the criticizing were busy talking out of both sides of their anti-Obama mouths.

    And that's exactly what we've watched for much of four years: the president's critics being more focused on making him look like a failure than on helping the country succeed.

    Some call it politics.

    I call it unpatriotic.

    Either way, despite the disrespect and the disregard and the attempts to suppress votes or intimidate voters, despite the misguided cry of "take our country back," Obama was re-elected because the majority of the American people saw the truth.

    You remember when Ryan stood up in front of nation during the Republican National Convention and blamed the president for a plant closing in Janesville, Wisconsin? Yeah, turns out the closure was planned before Obama even took office. The people in Janesville knew the truth, which is probably why more than 60% of the county it's in voted for Obama.

    There is no need to take this country back, because it hasn't gone anywhere ... except forward ... toward a more perfect union where the "All-American look" is getting a little bit harder to define. That may make a lot of people uncomfortable, but personal discomfort isn't a good enough reason to slight 25 consecutive months of job growth, resurgent house prices and corporations seeing record profit. Every president since Theodore Roosevelt has talked about reforming health care, and Obama is the one who got it done -- yet his critics say he's done nothing since he's been in office.

    Now, of course, there is still a lot of work ahead. We have a deficit to address, a fiscal cliff that is threatening millions of jobs and a GDP that is limping. And the administration is going to make mistakes. Every administration does.

    But now that this election is finally over, maybe more Republicans will be willing to take a page from the book of New Jersey Gov. Chris Christie and give Obama some credit for the things he's done right. We can still challenge the president's ideas without asking for his papers or spitting on our highest office.

    When I think about where this country was four years ago -- with us losing hundreds of thousands of jobs a month, engulfed in two wars and disliked by many of our allies -- I believe Obama has done a lot that's right.

    And from the looks of his resounding re-election, the majority of real Americans feel the same way.
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  8. #443
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Having an incumbent President win an election is usually the norm. Incumbent Presidents rarely lose when running in a second election; in my lifetime, only Jimmy Carter and George H. W. Bush managed it. (Gerald Ford lost his first presidential election). Before that, you have to go to Herbert Hoover.



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  9. #444
    Elite Member Ravenna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McJag View Post
    Thats right,I did. His personal family life proves to me he is seeped in it. This is 2012, not 1930. I have a problem with the Mormon faith,period. I will vote for any other religion if I liked the man or woman(as if),including Muslim. Show me a pro-choice Morman with some grasp that women are totally equal in all areas-including equal pay-and I would change my mind. Until then,call it bigotry until the moon turns blue and I don't care. I mean it. Woman are important to me. All of them.
    As they are to everyone else here, yet most have managed not to drag Romney's religion into it.

    But whatever-- if you're happy being a bigot and can't see the difference between saying 'I refused to vote for this person because of x policies and views' and 'I refused to vote for this person because he's x religion', then there isn't much I can say.

    Quote Originally Posted by BITTER View Post
    There was a group of Mormon on the last Navy ship I was on. What a bunch of smug bastards - they'd criticize some of the guys for reading PLAYBOY. One was threatened with discharge when his wife gave birth to their fifth child - he was only an E-4. A couple of the kids had medical issues, which affected his ability to deploy. He told the commanding officer that it was God's will that his wife stayed perpetually pregnant. I transferred off the ship for health issues, so I never found out what happened to him. But apparently they can kick you out if you have too many kids and they become a liability. I do know for a fact that a single mom was kicked out for that very reason - but I can't remember how many children she had.
    I've met that type too and they are insufferable.
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  10. #445
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    hell yeah i will vote against people because of their religion.
    i'm not american but if i were there is no way in hell i would vote for a conservative mormon and an über conservative catholic, or any kind of conservative religious anything. biden's a catholic but a liberal one who doesn't live for his god and his religion and doesn't impose it on anyone. there are exceptions of course and i'm sure there are very cool leftist mormons out there who don't want to impose their views on anyone and aren't sexist, but romney ain't it. and if you look at what these churches espouse and what people with conservative religious viewpoints stand for, there are so many reasons to not want them in office because of their religion.
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  11. #446
    Elite Member Mel1973's Avatar
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    There is no need to take this country back, because it hasn't gone anywhere ... except forward ... toward a more perfect union where the "All-American look" is getting a little bit harder to define. That may make a lot of people uncomfortable, but personal discomfort isn't a good enough reason to slight 25 consecutive months of job growth, resurgent house prices and corporations seeing record profit. Every president since Theodore Roosevelt has talked about reforming health care, and Obama is the one who got it done -- yet his critics say he's done nothing since he's been in office.


    LOL
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  12. #447
    Elite Member greysfang's Avatar
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    Tea baggers and birthers are just scared that since a black man took over the white house they will never get it back, kinda like the NBA. (John Rogers)
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  13. #448
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    That may make a lot of people uncomfortable, but personal discomfort isn't a good enough reason to slight 25 consecutive months of job growth, resurgent house prices and corporations seeing record profit.



    and that's really all that matters, isn't it. trickle down economics totally works. those corps will pass your share down the line in salary, no worries.
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  14. #449
    Gold Member Janet296's Avatar
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    The Republicans are a Mad Med Party in a Modern Family America. I saw this many times in articles that I read. It describes them perfectly.

  15. #450
    Elite Member Ravenna's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sputnik

    hell yeah i will vote against people because of their religion.
    i'm not american but if i were there is no way in hell i would vote for a conservative mormon and an über conservative catholic, or any kind of conservative religious anything. biden's a catholic but a liberal one who doesn't live for his god and his religion and doesn't impose it on anyone.

    Maybe I'm picking nits, but I still see a difference between voting against someone because they belong to a certain church, and voting against them because of views that his church may inspire. I'm sure Rick Santorum's views and are religion based, but I have no clue what church he belongs to and I don't care. His politics speak for themselves. It also irked me when people tried to use Rev. Wright against Obama in the last election.

    What I get from your post is that you would never vote for a conservative and religion is often the reason for conservative social views. That's fine and simply realistic. That's still about politics.

    there are exceptions of course and i'm sure there are very cool leftist mormons out there who don't want to impose their views on anyone and aren't sexist, but romney ain't it.


    I'm sure that's true. But then one should just say Romney is anti choice and anti women, or whatever one's political beef is with him, and give some examples of how he has demonstrated that, instead of saying one would never vote for a *sneer* Mormon.

    It's not really about Romney-- you could substitute any other candidate/religion and I'd feel the same way. I'm not a Romney supporter.

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