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Thread: LA Times tells gays to stop being mean towards homophobic bigots

  1. #31
    Elite Member MontanaMama's Avatar
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    Mike Huckabee Pt. 2 | The Daily Show | Comedy Central

    This is the single best conversation on this topic. Jon Stewart exposes the hypocrisy and nonsensical position of those who oppose gay marriage.

    Eli - "keep to their own"? Speechless, absolutely speechless.

  2. #32
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    "As much as we abhorred slavery, there's nothing to cheer about when private individuals are afraid to donate to racist political campaigns of their choice because it may cost them their livelihood."

    This is the utmost in bullshit.

    Fuck people's livelihood. If they are racist, homophobic, sexist, bigotted, etc., etc. then let 'em get what's coming to them.

    As usual. Money ALWAYS comes before humanity in the U.S. ...

  3. #33
    Elite Member RevellingInSane's Avatar
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    All people of age should have the right to a civil union/partnership, which is secular.

    Assume prop 8 had been voted down. In this lawsuit happy nation, I have a hard time believing not even one couple would have gone into a church, knowing refusal was coming, and tested litigation relating to civil rights and discrimination.

    Religion is not the sole foundation for the reasoning for voting yes on prop 8 and others like it.

    If marriage, a term which has its roots in religious background, is not the issue, why aren't civil unions seen as an option?



  4. #34
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    I hate to break it to you, but churches are PROTECTED fom that ever occuring. It simply can't.

    it hasn't happened up here, it hasn't happened in the scandinavian countries, it is expressely written into law and unchallengeable.

    Again, mor of the same stupid fearmongering the religious right uses. Thanks for repeating their bullshit.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  5. #35
    Elite Member lurkur's Avatar
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    Marriage originated from PROPERTY concerns, not religious. SOME PEOPLE began intertwining that with religion as a means of control. And it just so happened that God said he wants wives to obey their husbands. That's convenient.

    And if we're going to start issuing rights to people based on whether or not they obey CERTAIN PARTS of the Bible, then no one is going to have legal rights. Last time I checked, you didn't have to be a Bible-thumping Christian in order to be a citizen.

  6. #36
    Elite Member Little Wombat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RevellingInSane View Post
    Assume prop 8 had been voted down. In this lawsuit happy nation, I have a hard time believing not even one couple would have gone into a church, knowing refusal was coming, and tested litigation relating to civil rights and discrimination.
    No church, priest, pastor, etc. is obligated to marry anyone. People ASK to get married in a specific church or by a specific individual. A straight couple could get turned down equally today by a church or a priest.

    I've known priests who won't marry people because they don't feel they know the couple well enough to perform the ceremony. Nothing's stopping the couple these days from trying to sue. But then, what would be the point of that? "I'll make you marry us!" Huh?? The suit would get thrown out of court to begin with.

    The STATE would be obligated to marry anyone, not private institutions.

  7. #37
    Elite Member Just Kill Me's Avatar
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    My sister and BIL were married by a fellow bike courrier who became a minister... everyone was happy. The state should be obligated to marry anyone but they've passed laws allowing people who don't agree to not perform ceremonies that they disagree with same with the spastic pharamcists that won't give out Plan B.

    Seriously, what's this nonsense about not being hateful towards people who hate you? I understand the whole pearls before swine thing but things are a bit too passionate for that right now.
    KILLING ME WON'T BRING BACK YOUR GOD DAMNED HONEY!!!!!!!!!!

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  8. #38
    Elite Member southernbelle's Avatar
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    I don't have a problem with civil unions or partnerships. I don't like the idea of same-sex commitments being affiliated with the religious definition of marriage.

    I do oppose homosexual commitment ceremonies or weddings taking place in churches, because I don't feel that religious organizations should perform ceremonies celebrating something that is a violation of that religion's beliefs.

    I also think that tolerance should extend both ways, and that includes being tolerant of the fact that many people's religions believe it is wrong. It doesn't mean you have to agree with them, but I don't think people should be villified and ridiculed because they belong to or have been raised in a religious group which taught them that practicing homosexuality is wrong.

    I think it is your right to oppose or support something, and that neither side should become overly hostile or abusive to the other.

  9. #39
    Gold Member mamaste's Avatar
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    So, you oppose same sex marriage, but those of us who support it should be tolerant of your views on the matter? It's okay for you to be a bigot, but wrong for us to call you on it?

  10. #40
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Yes, that's exactly it.

    They can be bigots and we're supposed to respect that position because they hide behind Jesus.

    Not fucking likely.

    Secondly, any church that DOES marry gays obviously welcomes them in, and doesn't consider them outside the religion.

    Thirdly, I love, LOVE how "religious" people cling to this "my religion says its wrong" thing... but then they never bother obeying all the other rules and commandments. THey cherry pick what to 'believe'. Awfully convenient that they tend to single out and 'believe' things that allow them to be bigots. From my perspective, they just want an outlet to be assholes and use religion as a cover.

    (ps no church has been, is, or will be forced to marry anybody they don't want to. EVER. In all the countries that have gay mariage, not one has ever been "forced" to do anything they felt was outside their silly doctrine.)
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  11. #41
    Elite Member qwerty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    Yes, that's exactly it.

    They can be bigots and we're supposed to respect that position because they hide behind Jesus.

    Not fucking likely.

    Secondly, any church that DOES marry gays obviously welcomes them in, and doesn't consider them outside the religion.

    Thirdly, I love, LOVE how "religious" people cling to this "my religion says its wrong" thing... but then they never bother obeying all the other rules and commandments. THey cherry pick what to 'believe'. Awfully convenient that they tend to single out and 'believe' things that allow them to be bigots. From my perspective, they just want an outlet to be assholes and use religion as a cover.

    (ps no church has been, is, or will be forced to marry anybody they don't want to. EVER. In all the countries that have gay mariage, not one has ever been "forced" to do anything they felt was outside their silly doctrine.)
    This pisses me off too. Premarital sex is a serious/mortal sin in Christianity for example, yet I know plenty of so called devout Christians/Catholics who regularly indulge. Yet they're going to heaven because they've accepted Jesus in their hearts.

    Jesus also taught tolerance. Does anybody not remember "He who casts the first stone..." or however the phrase goes.

    I don't care whom you sleep with or whom you marry. As you long as you don't hurt anybody and are a productive member of society, live and let live.

  12. #42
    Elite Member southernbelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty View Post
    This pisses me off too. Premarital sex is a serious/mortal sin in Christianity for example, yet I know plenty of so called devout Christians/Catholics who regularly indulge. Yet they're going to heaven because they've accepted Jesus in their hearts.

    Jesus also taught tolerance. Does anybody not remember "He who casts the first stone..." or however the phrase goes.

    I don't care whom you sleep with or whom you marry. As you long as you don't hurt anybody and are a productive member of society, live and let live.
    Yes, and it wasn't just tolerance of the people who agree with you on every issue. Tolerating something is accepting that it happens without necessarily agreeing with or supporting it.

    I doubt anyone one else on the board will publicly agree with me, because it seems to be fairly liberal here, but there are many people who, for religious reasons, do not support gay marriage, and that doesn't make them bigots. And ridiculing or harassing them for what they believe basically equates to intolerance of their religious beliefs. I know many people who do not support gay marriage, because most of my friends are also Christian conservatives, and none of them go around fervently name-calling and bashing those who disagree on this issue. I find that on this issue, those who support it are a lot more intolerant of the other side than those who don't.

  13. #43
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Yes, it does make them bigots.

    Your religious beliefs, when applied outside yourself, keep people from equal rights. They single out a particular group for exclusion. Personally, you feel they SHOULD be excluded, as a result of something unchangeable in them, because your little book says you should.

    That is the very definition of bigotry. Prejudice against a group. Just because you try and cloak it in religion does not make it any less so.

    Secondly, why 'believe' this particular aspect of your religion, and ignore all the others? When's the last time you felt you were an abomination for eating shellfish, or wearing blended fibers in your clothes? Never.

    Why do you believe the little anti-gay tidbit, and not the others?

    What if your little book said that blacks or jews weren't allowed to get married. Would you have a problem then, or would you simply go along with it and try and justify it by saying "My religion says blacks and jews marrying is bad!"

    I'll wait for your answer.
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  14. #44
    Elite Member southernbelle's Avatar
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    The passages in the Bible about homosexuality (as well as premarital sex and adultery) represent a concrete idea, and I think that's why they are taken more literally, whereas many of the others are taken more metaphorically.

    I don't care if homosexuals want civil unions or partnerships where they can receive spousal rights (hospital visitation, inheritance, etc). I support that. What I do not support is granting them "marriages" in the religious sense of the word, which take place in a church.

  15. #45
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Eating shellfish isn't a concrete idea?

    Not wearing blended fibres isn't a concrete idea?

    What I hear is "those just aren't feasible these days, but being bigoted towards gays IS, so we'll do that." You neglected to answer the part about blacks and jews. Convenient.

    Up here, the only church that I know of that will do religious ceremonies is the Unitarian church.. you know, the church that welcomes everybody no matter who you are (awfully christlike). Still, gays can get a civil MARRIAGE at city hall. It's not called a union. It's a marriage.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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