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Thread: Keith Olbermann goes off on Prop 8.. you can feel the fury coming off him

  1. #31
    Hit By Ban Bus! AliceInWonderland's Avatar
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    ugh, why bother....

    im hoping and betting it'll get thrown out, its unconstitutional.

  2. #32
    Elite Member CherryDarling's Avatar
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    I absolutely ADORE Keith Olbermann, and this made me cry.

    Wow...preach it Keith. He is amazing.

  3. #33
    Elite Member *DIVA!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flipstick View Post
    I disagree. I don't think most kids would even notice until you pointed it out to them. You know I've noticed that most "kids" don't call people "black" until they are taught to think that way. One of my son's friends referred to him as the "brown skinned boy" for a long time before they became friends.

    Kids see things differently. When they say "brown skinned boy" its not about being racist. Its just how they saw him. It was only when the mother of that boy decided he would be offensive did she teach him to be "tolerant" by categorizing my son as "blacK." Now suddenly my son's friend had been taught a lable and patted on the back for being more PC. Terrific. Except now my son wasn't being described he was being categorized.

    If Timmy draws two mommies, most kids will see two mommies. Lots of kids have two mommies like divorced parents who remarried. Lots of kids have no daddies these days. Lots of kids have two daddies these days. Lots of kids have caregivers that are not their parents.

    Tolerance would be stop celebrating Mothers day and Father's day in school in order to be fair. That would be cool.

    Children are not born to judge and discern. They are taught it. I believe what we think we are doing to help the child only hurts them.

    Take a midget? This weekend my SIL and I were in a store and a midget walked in and her 3 year old went bonkers and wanted to see him. But SIL ran out pronto and chided the girl not to point out little men....teaching tolerance? Kids are tolerant. Adults are too wound up.
    LITTLE PERSON!! The rest is irrelevant!!


    I don''t know if she really fucked the board though. Maybe just put the tip in. -Mrs. Dark

  4. #34
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    Kids are being taught about families in school. Just look at their school library & text books. How many of them portray anything other than a "traditional" or step family? Even without a specific class on families they're being taught what's considered normal and what isn't by the characters in their story books. Even with classes about tolerance the balance isn't there in the class work they're given as a whole.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    They voted for it because they were told lies..
    Yep




    but the point remains that the very IDEA of teaching kids about different family units scares the shit out of people cuz they think their kids will catch GAY, or that they think it's a choice and wrong (which it is neither) and therefore their kids should be somehow shielded from it, even though it's just a family unit going about its business.
    Yep

    Do they have the same reaction to single mothers or fathers? No.. it's just when you put the man with another man or the woman with another woman.. then it's something SCARRRRRRRY instead of 2 people in love raising kids.
    Yep



    It should be taught in the same vein as everything else.. not petting the strange dog, not taking candy from strangers, not making fun of people because they're different, etc etc etc. Nobody EVER has a problem with that stuff, but as soon as you throw the gay in they lose their fucking minds because they're ignorant.

    Really? So you teach little kids to accept the straight people in their lives? Hello but most kids don't understand the difference. Its not like the kids are at a porn party and confused. If you want it to be a non issue then stop making it an issue where it is not. How many kids take issue with Gay people that haven't been taught to? And kids get interesting exposure to gay people in the media all the time. Will and Grace is a popular show my kids watched. No big deal. It doesn't need to be taught in school. Parents know this, and its just the lie that it will be taught in school that makes it seem weird.

    So why back up that angle when its destroying your cause by taking it off track? Hmmm?

    You can't expect people to be accepting of differences if you never educate about it. That's fact.
    No its not. If something is a non issue by "educating" about it you can actually make it an issue when its not. What exactly about "being gay" needs to be taught? How exactly is the "difference" between a gay man, and a straight man relevant to a little kid?


    Yes, by being taught in school.. the same way you teach the other stuff i just mentioned. Matter of factly, in a realistic way, neither ascribing good or bad qualities to it but saying "this is how families can be"
    So you are going to teach kids what they already know? Trust me when I tell you that kids do not give a shit how families can be. Families have a lot more problems in a lot more of a major way than gay moms and dads. For example family's can be that daddy is in jail. Can we teach that in school as tolerance as well? Its making a non issue an issue. So is teaching about gay mom and dad. Timmy's friend Billy is not going to understand at all what the fuck you are talking about when you start talking about being "gay" if you had little kids you'd understand that.

    Would you please tell me what is WRONG with teaching it, just theoretically?
    Its making an issue out of nothing. Its wasting my tax payer money on something akin to teachng religious tolerance. It is interfering with the way parents choose to raise their kids. Its also validating something as acceptable that some people consider morally wrong. And whether or not they agree with it is beside the point. Its confusing the issue and mostly

    are you listening.......

    are you paying attention...........

    Its causing you to lose your rights. I don't give a damn what kids are taught in school about gay rights. Teach them nothing for all I care, they will soon learn it in life.

    What I do care about is you getting your due civil rights. Why the fuck do you care what someone else's kid is taught in school that won't likely register with them at all. And if you seriously think that being taught in elementary school that being gay is normal is going to change the world then I suggest you go hang out at a liberal school somewhere like oh say California where they voted against your civil rights. So that didn't work.



    Ideas? Like TOLERANCE? Yeah, how dare we educate people and teach them about being accepting of others. What a horrible thing. Everybody should oppose educating people on how to be decent to each other.

    Do you realize how illogical that sounds?
    No because I realize how realistic it sounds. Progress is made by moving forward with new generations. Not by trying to change the old ones. If you teach a kid that being gay is cool in elementary school I can pretty much guarantee you that mom and dad are going to be forced to tell them otherwise when they come home if they are bigots. So you aren't changing anything.

    The only thing that will teach tolerance is experiencing it.





    *laughs*

    God, do you know how LONG i've been waiting for you to FINALLY say that? Jesus, it's been like 50 posts!'

    This is EXACTLY the kind of ignorance I'm speaking about.

    Look: do you teach kindergarteners about sex at all? No. At most, you teach them bad touch to keep pervs away. That's about it.

    Now, why in the name of all that is holy, would you start talking about SEX (and even more specifically GAY SEX) to a bunch of tiny kids when the topic is FAMILY UNITS

    Did I mention SEX anywhere? Does anybody here think little kids ought to be taught all about the various kinds of sex?

    Has any gay rights activist said SEX should even be mentioned if it were to be taught in schools?



    ... NO.


    It's about families.. it's about "Timmy has 2 moms and Sally has 2 days, they're a family."

    Not "Timmy's dad takes it up the ass from his other dad, and Sally's mom totally gets her box eaten out by her second mom"

    You are once again missing the point. What is the difference between Sally's mom has two dads and kids from divorced homes having two dads?

    What is it to you that specifically needs to be pointed out to little kids. I know they aren't talking about sex in school you doof. But what do you think is going to happen when they talk about Sally's two mommies? Chimpo is going to go home and tell mom and dad and they are going to fucking panic. You know why? Because Chimpo is going to wonder what it means and mom and dad are probably nervous as it is to talk sex to their 8 year old.

    You've yet to explain exactly why you think a 5 year old is going to care that Sally has two mommies? What IS is normal to a five year old until someone points out other wise.

    TEACHING PEOPLE ABOUT GAY PEOPLE BEING A FAMILY DOES NOT MEAN TALK ABOUT SEX SEX SEX SEX SEX SEX

    That's all straight people think about, isnt it.; Gay sex. Kids learning about gay sex. Gay sex rubbing off on them...


    when the idea to teach tolerance of different family structures HAS NOTHING TO FUCKING DO WITH SEX.

    God!
    No. But then again, you won't answer the question. Btw don't blanket me with your temper tantrum. You've done this to several people regarding this issue and you are missing the point.

    You personally have mentioned sex. Did you see me mention it? You personally have insisted that your lifestyle should be taught to kids in school. Please explain what other lifestyles are taught to kids in school?

    I want less ignorance which will LEAD TO RIGHTS.

    *bangs head on table*
    Then practice the serenity prayer and pay attention.

    Cornball Clown in the Sky grant me the serenity
    to accept the things I cannot change;

    You can't change how everyone sees being gay. So stop trying to. It will change on its own.


    courage to change the things I can;


    You can change the fact that this is viewed as a threat on the straightees by making it only about civil rights and not about promoting tolerance.


    and wisdom to know the difference.

    This is what you don't seem to be able to see.

    Quote Originally Posted by western View Post
    Kids are being taught about families in school. Just look at their school library & text books. How many of them portray anything other than a "traditional" or step family? Even without a specific class on families they're being taught what's considered normal and what isn't by the characters in their story books. Even with classes about tolerance the balance isn't there in the class work they're given as a whole.

    Pretty much most of the fairy tales are about evil step mothers. So does that convey that it is normal to have dead mothers?

    Sorry but check out the local library. The number one kids book for a while was the Harry Potter series. In that book the hero is being raised by his uncle and aunt and his parents are dead.

    Check out a few childrens books and you will see that there a bazillion different kinds of stories that show differnt types of families that would include the fact that Sally has two moms without pointing out specificially its because they are gay.

    Quote Originally Posted by SSDiva View Post
    LITTLE PERSON!! The rest is irrelevant!!

    Right because you can't argue it. Little person thank you for properly categorizing someone. FYI he prefers to be called a midget. But thanks. Like my son's friends mother you feel you get to decide how to categorize people.
    Last edited by Tati; November 11th, 2008 at 08:21 PM.

  6. #36
    Elite Member Penny Lane's Avatar
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    Really irrelevant, but I don't know if he prefers to be called his or if you think he prefers to be called this.

    Midget is a term that was originally coined in 1865, referring to an extremely short but normally proportioned person. P.T. Barnum indirectly helped popularize "midget" when he began featuring General Tom Thumb in his circus. Dwarf was originally used to denote those with short limbs as compared to those who had proportioned limbs. Like many other older terms, "midget" has became part of popular language, it was often used in a pejorative sense. When applied to a person who is very short, midget is now often considered offensive, an example of the euphemism treadmill.

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    Well that's how he refers to himself. He's a friendly guy who hangs out at the pizzaria. Perhaps I ought to contact the ACLU so they can set him straight on how he should refer to himself.

  8. #38
    Elite Member Penny Lane's Avatar
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    He can refer to himself any way he wants, but I still think it's a bit offensive if you refer to him using the term 'midget'.. 'dwarf' might be more acceptable. I guess I've always been under the impression that 'midget' is a derogatory term, but I'm not as enlightened on civil liberties as you are, I suppose.

  9. #39
    Elite Member *DIVA!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flipstick View Post
    Well that's how he refers to himself. He's a friendly guy who hangs out at the pizzaria. Perhaps I ought to contact the ACLU so they can set him straight on how he should refer to himself.
    I can refer to myself as Nigger if I want(I don't and won't accept it!), but it doesn't make it right or ok for someone to call other blacks that!


    I don''t know if she really fucked the board though. Maybe just put the tip in. -Mrs. Dark

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    Elite Member Beeyotch's Avatar
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    You can't change how everyone sees being gay. So stop trying to. It will change on its own.

    This point is crazy, to think it will just change on its own. Did civil rights change on its own with no effort or complaint from the oppressed? No.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stylejunkiex View Post
    He can refer to himself any way he wants, but I still think it's a bit offensive if you refer to him using the term 'midget'.. 'dwarf' might be more acceptable. I guess I've always been under the impression that 'midget' is a derogatory term, but I'm not as enlightened on civil liberties as you are, I suppose.

    Perhaps he's self loathing? And has succumbed to the pressure of being called such only to concede to the abuse by way of defeat?

    He's a happy guy. He doesn't get upset at being looked at for being a "little person" he gets more upset with parents doing what SIL did and dragging her kid away from him like the plague because parent is worried about offending him and under hushed breath trying to teach tolerance.

    Just like it never bugged me or my kid that Denny called him the brown skinned boy. Denny was the black haired boy. It was only when Denny's mom decided to teach Denny tolerance did it cause a problem in my personal opinion. Perhaps I'm jaded. But that's how I see it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Beeyotch View Post
    You can't change how everyone sees being gay. So stop trying to. It will change on its own.

    This point is crazy, to think it will just change on its own. Did civil rights change on its own with no effort or complaint from the oppressed? No.
    Civil rights changed by staying about Civil Rights. The gay community is putting the cart before the horse. And

    its not working.

    That's my take. If its not working then I'd be tossing off big time what gets in the way.

    Until

    Until kids start seeing gay families, none of the tolerance is going to make any sense because it won't be relevant to the world they see.

    Before tolerance get the rights.

    I agree that its not right. But to me doing what's practical makes more sense.
    Last edited by Tati; November 11th, 2008 at 08:22 PM.

  12. #42
    Super Moderator twitchy2.0's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flipstick View Post
    Its causing you to lose your rights.
    Being intolerant is a right?
    "But I am very poorly today & very stupid & I hate everybody & everything." -- Charles Darwin

    "Trump is, in my opinion, the first woman president of the United States." -- Roseanne Barr

  13. #43
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flipstick View Post
    Really? So you teach little kids to accept the straight people in their lives?
    No, because straight people make up 90% and are, de rigeur, the norm.

    Hello but most kids don't understand the difference. Its not like the kids are at a porn party and confused.
    Porn party, wtf?

    If you want it to be a non issue then stop making it an issue where it is not. How many kids take issue with Gay people that haven't been taught to?
    How many kids could be headed off at the pass before ignorant bumfucks in their lives try to teach them hate?

    And kids get interesting exposure to gay people in the media all the time. Will and Grace is a popular show my kids watched. No big deal.
    Fabulous! Except none of them ever had a family, wwere never shown in a family setting, were never even shown ROMANCE WITH ANOTHER PARTNER.. Will & Grace was not a gay family! It was sanitized gays that never had kids, never went on dates, and never so much as kissed each other affectionately. These are "gays", in quotes, that straight people are unthreatened by.. the swishy, fabulous catty, funny and NEUTERED ONES. The sideshow entertainment.. as long as you don't know about them actually being in a family or doing romantic things or living like straight people, it's all fun. They're a show, doing life-drag for your amusement. Don't make me fucking PUKE.


    It doesn't need to be taught in school. Parents know this, and its just the lie that it will be taught in school that makes it seem weird.
    Yes it does. WHy? Because ignorance is still there.

    So why back up that angle when its destroying your cause by taking it off track? Hmmm?
    It's not destroying it. Pushing it, and shedding light on exactly WHY something like that should be taught, FOR EVERYBODY, not just gays, is the only way it'll ever change.


    No its not. If something is a non issue by "educating" about it you can actually make it an issue when its not.
    It becomes an issue later, hence 'heading off at the pass'. If Timmy's friend comes over and starts wondering why he has 2 days or 2 moms, it might be beneficial for him to know that it's just how some families are. EDUCATION!

    What exactly about "being gay" needs to be taught? How exactly is the "difference" between a gay man, and a straight man relevant to a little kid?
    Again, you're focusing on the GAY part, which in your head has (of course) led to SEX.. I'm focusing on the "FAMILY UNIT" part, devoid of sex, as an educational tool.


    So you are going to teach kids what they already know? Trust me when I tell you that kids do not give a shit how families can be. Families have a lot more problems in a lot more of a major way than gay moms and dads. For example family's can be that daddy is in jail. Can we teach that in school as tolerance as well?
    Did daddy do a crime? Then daddy should be in jail.

    Its making a non issue an issue. So is teaching about gay mom and dad.
    Really? You fucking think so? Have a read:

    http://www.gossiprocks.com/forum/news/88161-bigot-beats-two-women-front-their-child-school.html


    Timmy's friend Billy is not going to understand at all what the fuck you are talking about when you start talking about being "gay" if you had little kids you'd understand that.
    Again, you're totally lost. I keep saying educate about family units, all of them, 2 moms, 2 days, 1 mom and dad, 1 mom, 1 dad... ALL OF IT.

    You're stuck in gay = sex + kids = ew.


    Its making an issue out of nothing. Its wasting my tax payer money on something akin to teachng religious tolerance.
    It's wasting tax payer money to teach kids about being decent to each other, and educating them about the different kinds of families out there so it's not a big deal later on and ignorance is diminished?

    It is interfering with the way parents choose to raise their kids.
    Oh is it! Why is that? How does teaching kids about all the different kinds of family units out there INTERFERE with anything but bigotry?

    Please, enlighten me on what it INTERFERES with.

    Its also validating something as acceptable that some people consider morally wrong.
    It IS acceptable. Just like black people riding in the front of the bus is now. They just need to learn it, and weed the bigotry from their systems. If not them, then their kids.


    And whether or not they agree with it is beside the point. Its confusing the issue and mostly
    No, it's not confusing at all. Not at all. What's becoming implicitly clear is that you seem to be beholden to the same crap they are. How unfortunate for you.

    are you listening.......

    are you paying attention...........
    Yes, are you?

    Its causing you to lose your rights. I don't give a damn what kids are taught in school about gay rights. Teach them nothing for all I care, they will soon learn it in life.
    Again, you're ignoring everything I just said. If you head them off early at the pass about different family units and how it's NOT GROSS or icky or bizarre then it helps prevent them from growing up into bigoted, ignorant assholes.

    What I do care about is you getting your due civil rights. Why the fuck do you care what someone else's kid is taught in school that won't likely register with them at all. And if you seriously think that being taught in elementary school that being gay is normal is going to change the world then I suggest you go hang out at a liberal school somewhere like oh say California where they voted against your civil rights. So that didn't work.
    Yes it will. With time, and effort, and patience. With all education, it is constantly evolving. Things we look on NOW as being absurd were the norm 50 to 100 years ago because we know better. This is no different.

    No because I realize how realistic it sounds. Progress is made by moving forward with new generations. Not by trying to change the old ones. If you teach a kid that being gay is cool in elementary school I can pretty much guarantee you that mom and dad are going to be forced to tell them otherwise when they come home if they are bigots. So you aren't changing anything.
    Exactly. Hence, teaching them young in a matter of fact way about all the different ways people live as a family, so later on it's already a non issue for them when they're confronted by it.

    The only thing that will teach tolerance is experiencing it.
    You don't EXPERIENCE tolerance.

    You are once again missing the point. What is the difference between Sally's mom has two dads and kids from divorced homes having two dads?
    For one, the living situation. WHo lives with who, who is a family, who is a unit. Are you deliberately ignoring this or what?

    What is it to you that specifically needs to be pointed out to little kids. I know they aren't talking about sex in school you doof. But what do you think is going to happen when they talk about Sally's two mommies? Chimpo is going to go home and tell mom and dad and they are going to fucking panic. You know why? Because Chimpo is going to wonder what it means and mom and dad are probably nervous as it is to talk sex to their 8 year old.
    Sorry, how many 8 year olds are in kindergarten? How many 8 year olds wonder about straight people having sex? Why would this be any different?


    You've yet to explain exactly why you think a 5 year old is going to care that Sally has two mommies? What IS is normal to a five year old until someone points out other wise.
    How many 5 year olds are exposed to someone with 2 mommies or daddies? It's relatively rare. While it does exist, it's not as prevalent and thus the opportunity for exposure is pretty low.

    No. But then again, you won't answer the question. Btw don't blanket me with your temper tantrum. You've done this to several people regarding this issue and you are missing the point.
    What question have i not answered? I've vivisected each thought and answered it.

    You personally have mentioned sex.
    Where? Where did I mention it except to point out that YOU JUST DID 1 post up?

    Did you see me mention it?

    Uh, yes? 1 post up? let me repost it for you:

    "Once you start talking about teaching children about homosexual sex in order to bolster tolerance........that's that. "


    You personally have insisted that your lifestyle should be taught to kids in school. Please explain what other lifestyles are taught to kids in school?
    No, again for the billionth fucking time, which you will no doubt ignore like all the others...

    I WANT KIDS TO BE TAUGHT ABOUT DIFFERENT FAMILY UNITS INCLUDING THE 2 MOMMY AND 2 DADDY SITUATION SO THEY ARE EXPOSED TO IT AND IT IS A NON ISSUE LATER IN LIFE THUS REDUCING THE RISK OF IGNORANCE AND BIGOTRY AND MOVING ALL OF HUMANITY FORWARD IN ENLIGHTENMENT.

    Is that clear enough? I've said it multiple times but you seem to ignore it.

    Again, you're stuck in GAY GAY GAY SEX SEX SEX mode, where I'm talking about FAMILY UNITS (yet again)


    Also, as a final note: If teaching kids about acceptance and tolerance and rejecting hate has NEVER happened, why do school trips happen to war memorials, and holocaust museums happen year round?

    Imagine what they're being exposed to THERE. What a waste of taxpayer dollars.

    What a hideous argument.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by twitchy2.0 View Post
    Being intolerant is a right?

    What?

    Its causing you to lose your rights.

    Teaching it in school should be off the table if it gets in the way of getting rights?

    Why is this so difficult to understand?

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    Elite Member RevellingInSane's Avatar
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    Bigotry is not always learned in the familial surroundings. I can assure you.



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