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Thread: Keith Olbermann goes off on Prop 8.. you can feel the fury coming off him

  1. #16
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Trust me, i was across a protest line from a black and asian couple, baptist assholes shipped in from the US to protest Canada's gay marriage ruling on parliament hill.

    Ignorance knows no ethnic boundaries.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Elite Member WesCAdle's Avatar
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    WOW! Beautifully and brilliantly delivered Keith! It is a shame more people in California didn't hear that before voting! There's far too little love in the world, what's wrong with two people wanting to commit themselves legally and socially in front of the world in the name of love? That's what I thought all religious tenets were based on at the core anyway.
    as privileged as a whore...victims in demand for public show, swept out through the cracks beneath the door, holier than thou, how?

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    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    OMG! I am almost in love with this man. He said exactly what I was feeling,but I was so upset I lacked the words to even express it! Anything at all that causes more love,less hate in this sometimes cold world, is a wonderful thing.
    I didn't start out to collect diamonds, but somehow they just kept piling up.-Mae West

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    Elite Member KrisNine's Avatar
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    From all that I know, marriage is not required to be taught in schools in California. It doesn't matter to me, I think that kids should be made aware of gay families and being gay. There is some kid sitting in that class that is gay or that has gay parents and feels like an outcast because things in his life are different than the other kids.

    Mrs. Olbermann

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    Elite Member nwgirl's Avatar
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    All you need is love, love, love is all you need.

    This was great!
    "The difference between genius and stupidity is that genius has its limits."

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    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flipstick View Post

    But why are they trying to push Gay marriage tolerance in elementary schools? What's the point? That is the number one reason why people voted against it. I don't think people care about the gay aspect of it, its the way its being drawn into the public arena via children.
    Flipstick,I believe you were suckered in to believing the scare tactics used. It wasn't even true. You see to be a fairly logical person,in most cases. Please watch this:
    YouTube - Proponents of Prop 8 are using lies to scare you
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKAqbQlWQhc
    Quote Originally Posted by KrisNine View Post
    From all that I know, marriage is not required to be taught in schools in California. It doesn't matter to me, I think that kids should be made aware of gay families and being gay. There is some kid sitting in that class that is gay or that has gay parents and feels like an outcast because things in his life are different than the other kids.
    I agree. Knowledge is power. Kids will find out one way or another. This is just a fact-neither good nor bad-just a fact. To just learn this exists from a reliable source is a good thing. Kids need to know there are many kinds of families out there,all supportive and good-they are there to nurture a child and deserve our respect and support. My child was never raised to think only male/female marriges with white parents (like he had) were the only valid families. That would have been a diservice to us both,IMO.
    I didn't start out to collect diamonds, but somehow they just kept piling up.-Mae West

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    Elite Member *DIVA!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flipstick View Post
    That's not really true. Children aren't educated about normal families at all. They just grow up in them. I have a biracial family and my kids are not educated about biracial families. So why this? Timmy is not going to be prevented in getting the shit kicked out of him because Mrs. Nelson in school told everyone that he has two dads is he? Come on? Did you even go to school? Think back?

    Its ruinging your cause though. I can tell that you probably don't have kids.

    I am the biggest advocate for gay rights. I agree with your outrage and its disgusting to me that this is happening.


    However big big mistake to try to use other people's children to pave the way for your rights. Especially in an issue that has a lot of people confused about sexuality who believe that pedophiles are often gay? Why confuse the issue further.

    I don't care what your rights are, leave my kids out of it. That's pretty much the sentitment of most parents. And I think this is why this issue failed.
    Actually, the whole thing about teaching gay marriage to kids in school was a lie, made up by the supporters of prop hate. They also ran ads telling people if prop hate didn't pass that clergy people who spoke out against gays and lesbians would be locked up. However, I'm with Grimm you have to make kids aware of these situations, because when little Timmy draw the picture of his two mommys...you don't want him getting his ass kicked. I hate when people don't see the civil rights that were fought for their current situations...and how it's all tied together!
    Baltimore O's ​Fan!

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    see the other thread about the 2 lesbians being beaten up in front of their own kids at the school as to why.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Elite Member nana55's Avatar
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    As far as I know we don't "teach marraige" at our elementary school. We do teach tolerence though. We have 2 or 3 openly gay parents in our small school of 360. No one thinks anything of it. They are very active and the kids don't seem to suffer any ill effects. In 5th & 6th grade when they have their "family life" classes this is probably talked about. It is a fact of life people, get over it. Teach tolerence. I still think in many minds people are afraid if we teach it their kids will "turn gay"
    If I can't be a good example, then let me be a horrible warning.

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    Elite Member MontanaMama's Avatar
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    I think Keith hit the absolutely right tone - well said and well put.

    I guess I'm confused. IF your child (anyone's child) doesn't know about homosexuality, does that mean homosexuality ceases to exist? I just don't get the teaching children thing as an issue. First time my daughter asked me a question about sex/family/where do babies come from the answer was some women fall in love with men, some women fall in love with women, some men fall in love with women and some men fall in love with other men. (I did not address the Lohan matter). Her reply was "ok" - I think she was 3. You can only teach intolerence and hatred, it simply doesn't exist without being taught. Knowledge does not equate to approval (probably wrong word, but couldn't think of another)...I have knowledge of Nazi Germany, Guantanamo Bay, WWII Internment Camps and many other things...doesn't mean I am a Nazi, I imprison and torture people without charge for years or place an entire race of people in "camps" requiring them to forfeit all of their property for no articulatable reason.

  11. #26
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    I did not address the Lohan matter
    Hah!
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  12. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by McJag View Post
    Flipstick,I believe you were suckered in to believing the scare tactics used. It wasn't even true. You see to be a fairly logical person,in most cases. Please watch this:
    YouTube - Proponents of Prop 8 are using lies to scare you
    www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKAqbQlWQhc

    I agree. Knowledge is power. Kids will find out one way or another. This is just a fact-neither good nor bad-just a fact. To just learn this exists from a reliable source is a good thing. Kids need to know there are many kinds of families out there,all supportive and good-they are there to nurture a child and deserve our respect and support. My child was never raised to think only male/female marriges with white parents (like he had) were the only valid families. That would have been a diservice to us both,IMO.

    I don't fall for the scare tactics. But the point is that this is why people voted for Prop 8. Pure and simple this influenced the vote.

    So explain why gay people respond the way Grimmlok did?

    If you think about it, he's only hurting his case by suggesting that it should be taught in school.

    Here's the newsflash. People learn about tolerance by experiencing it. Not by being taught it in school. I totally disagree that you should "teach tolerance" it only backfires when parents think you are ramming ideas down kids throats.

    My kids have hung out with gay people all their lives. My one son thinks its gross. The other "meh." Did I raise them not to like? Nope. Its just how they deal. The one who thinks its gross is tolerant. But the difference between homosexuality and biracial is that the ick factor of the sexy is part of it as well. Once you start talking about teaching children about homosexual sex in order to bolster tolerance........that's that.

    Unless this is taken off the table in that regard, believe me this will never ever ever change.

    You want tolerance taught to kindergartners or you want rights? I don't even see what the confusion is.

    Quote Originally Posted by SSDiva View Post
    Actually, the whole thing about teaching gay marriage to kids in school was a lie, made up by the supporters of prop hate. They also ran ads telling people if prop hate didn't pass that clergy people who spoke out against gays and lesbians would be locked up. However, I'm with Grimm you have to make kids aware of these situations, because when little Timmy draw the picture of his two mommys...you don't want him getting his ass kicked. I hate when people don't see the civil rights that were fought for their current situations...and how it's all tied together!
    I disagree. I don't think most kids would even notice until you pointed it out to them. You know I've noticed that most "kids" don't call people "black" until they are taught to think that way. One of my son's friends referred to him as the "brown skinned boy" for a long time before they became friends.

    Kids see things differently. When they say "brown skinned boy" its not about being racist. Its just how they saw him. It was only when the mother of that boy decided he would be offensive did she teach him to be "tolerant" by categorizing my son as "blacK." Now suddenly my son's friend had been taught a lable and patted on the back for being more PC. Terrific. Except now my son wasn't being described he was being categorized.

    If Timmy draws two mommies, most kids will see two mommies. Lots of kids have two mommies like divorced parents who remarried. Lots of kids have no daddies these days. Lots of kids have two daddies these days. Lots of kids have caregivers that are not their parents.

    Tolerance would be stop celebrating Mothers day and Father's day in school in order to be fair. That would be cool.

    Children are not born to judge and discern. They are taught it. I believe what we think we are doing to help the child only hurts them.

    Take a midget? This weekend my SIL and I were in a store and a midget walked in and her 3 year old went bonkers and wanted to see him. But SIL ran out pronto and chided the girl not to point out little men....teaching tolerance? Kids are tolerant. Adults are too wound up.
    Last edited by Tati; November 11th, 2008 at 09:19 PM.

  13. #28
    Elite Member Penny Lane's Avatar
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    Proposition 8 is a crock of shit. Face it.. it doesn't hurt you or me if a gay or lesbian couple chooses to make their union legal. It doesn't... we don't have to give up fundamental rights for it to happen. Yet the people voting yes felt it necessary to impose whatever religious belief they have on an issue that is of no consequence to them whatsoever. It makes them uncomfortable? Some heterosexual marriages make me uncomfortable.. husband beats the shit out of the wife, wife cheats on the husband openly... that's the 'sanctity of marriage' we all wish to protect? We've denied fellow citizens a fundamental right on the basis of sexual orientation.. forgive my ignorance, but isn't that discrimination? Legal discrimination at that. And yea people might whine and bitch about the discriminated out-group (in this case the gays and lesbians in this country) always wanting more more more and never being satisfied. Can you blame them? Really, can you blame a person for wanting a right he/she has been denied just because they have love for another person--love that one might define as 'sinful' or 'immoral'?

    Proposition 8 will only serve as a reason for this stupid, irrational hate to continue. What's tragic is kids are growing up learning this hate from their parents. If the people old enough to vote had decided to give gays and lesbians the fundamental right every person in this country deserves maybe we could have changed that.. maybe we could have been just a little bit less selfish and considered it WITHOUT our bigoted or religious frameworks... maybe the children who haven't yet been tainted by such homophobic beliefs would have grown up in a time where salience of a law making discrimination against gays and lesbians illegal would have faded and tolerance and egalitarianism would have taken its place.

    I just don't understand why this is still happening today.

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    Hit By Ban Bus! AliceInWonderland's Avatar
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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by flipstick View Post
    I don't fall for the scare tactics. But the point is that this is why people voted for Prop 8. Pure and simple this influenced the vote.
    They voted for it because they were told lies.. but the point remains that the very IDEA of teaching kids about different family units scares the shit out of people cuz they think their kids will catch GAY, or that they think it's a choice and wrong (which it is neither) and therefore their kids should be somehow shielded from it, even though it's just a family unit going about its business.

    Do they have the same reaction to single mothers or fathers? No.. it's just when you put the man with another man or the woman with another woman.. then it's something SCARRRRRRRY instead of 2 people in love raising kids.

    So explain why gay people respond the way Grimmlok did?

    If you think about it, he's only hurting his case by suggesting that it should be taught in school.
    It should be taught in the same vein as everything else.. not petting the strange dog, not taking candy from strangers, not making fun of people because they're different, etc etc etc. Nobody EVER has a problem with that stuff, but as soon as you throw the gay in they lose their fucking minds because they're ignorant. All kinds of family units should be taught, not just gay ones. The whole rainbow, so to speak.

    Here's the newsflash. People learn about tolerance by experiencing it.
    You can't expect people to be accepting of differences if you never educate about it. That's fact.

    Not by being taught it in school.
    Yes, by being taught in school.. the same way you teach the other stuff i just mentioned. Matter of factly, in a realistic way, neither ascribing good or bad qualities to it but saying "this is how families can be". Straight, gay, single, whatever.

    Would you please tell me what is WRONG with teaching it, just theoretically?

    I totally disagree that you should "teach tolerance" it only backfires when parents think you are ramming ideas down kids throats.
    Ideas? Like TOLERANCE? Yeah, how dare we educate people and teach them about being accepting of others. What a horrible thing. Everybody should oppose educating people on how to be decent to each other.

    Do you realize how illogical that sounds?

    My kids have hung out with gay people all their lives. My one son thinks its gross. The other "meh." Did I raise them not to like? Nope. Its just how they deal. The one who thinks its gross is tolerant. But the difference between homosexuality and biracial is that the ick factor of the sexy is part of it as well.
    Once you start talking about teaching children about homosexual sex in order to bolster tolerance........that's that.
    *laughs*

    God, do you know how LONG i've been waiting for you to FINALLY say that? Jesus, it's been like 50 posts!'

    This is EXACTLY the kind of ignorance I'm speaking about.

    Look: do you teach kindergarteners about sex at all? No. At most, you teach them bad touch to keep pervs away. That's about it.

    Now, why in the name of all that is holy, would you start talking about SEX (and even more specifically GAY SEX) to a bunch of tiny kids when the topic is FAMILY UNITS

    Did I mention SEX anywhere? Does anybody here think little kids ought to be taught all about the various kinds of sex?

    Has any gay rights activist said SEX should even be mentioned if ilearning about different family structures were to be taught in schools?



    ... NO.


    It's about families.. it's about "Timmy has 2 moms and Sally has 2 dads, they're a family."

    Not "Sally's dad takes it up the ass from his other dad, and Timmy's mom totally gets her box eaten out by her second mom"

    TEACHING PEOPLE ABOUT GAY PEOPLE BEING A FAMILY DOES NOT MEAN TALK ABOUT SEX SEX SEX SEX SEX SEX

    That's all straight people think about, isnt it; Gay sex. Kids learning about gay sex. Gay sex rubbing off on them...


    when the idea to teach tolerance of different family structures HAS NOTHING TO FUCKING DO WITH SEX.

    God!


    You want tolerance taught to kindergartners or you want rights? I don't even see what the confusion is.
    I want less ignorance which will LEAD TO RIGHTS.

    *bangs head on table*
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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