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Thread: It's Super Tuesday

  1. #76
    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
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    I grew up in the Midwest, I know how hated Hillary is there.

    I'm genuinely interested in opinions on this. Do you think that she is hated, really, because of a deep seated resentment of her being a woman trying to get into this boy's club? When they say they hate her, what reasons do they give? I think many who hate her so vehemently do so because of reasons they won't articulate (at least not publicly) for fear of being un-pc. Do you think they are just really opposed to seeing a woman as President that no matter who it was they would 'hate' them,too?

    I'm not saying there are not valid reasons for anyone, male or female, Democrat or Republican, to dislike her candidacy or to oppose her stances on many hot button issues. I just do not understand where such outward hostility comes from.

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    Go Obama!!!!

    I totally agree with you, january. I fear the Democrats are going to shoot themselves in the foot AGAIN by choosing an unelectable nominee. Too many people hate Hillary with a passion - I don't understand it myself but they do. McCain could very well beat her in November, even with all the dissent in his party against him. They would rather hold their noses and vote for him then to see her win.

  3. #78
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Ugh McCain.. that nutjob, civil liberties destroying, no idea how the economy works Bush enabling freak.

    If he gets in the White House i'm writing off America completely as the land of the insane.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  4. #79
    Elite Member Laurent's Avatar
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    Obama took huge numbers in the south with black voters. If he doesn't get the nomination, they aren't going to vote McCain, they're going to vote for Clinton.
    “What are you looking at, sugar-tits?” - Mel Gibson

  5. #80
    Elite Member january's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crumpet View Post
    I grew up in the Midwest, I know how hated Hillary is there.

    I'm genuinely interested in opinions on this. Do you think that she is hated, really, because of a deep seated resentment of her being a woman trying to get into this boy's club? When they say they hate her, what reasons do they give? I think many who hate her so vehemently do so because of reasons they won't articulate (at least not publicly) for fear of being un-pc. Do you think they are just really opposed to seeing a woman as President that no matter who it was they would 'hate' them,too?

    I'm not saying there are not valid reasons for anyone, male or female, Democrat or Republican, to dislike her candidacy or to oppose her stances on many hot button issues. I just do not understand where such outward hostility comes from.
    I can only give speculation on this based on my conversations with numerous people. I know that the deep seated resentment goes way back to when Bill was in office. I think most people there saw her as cold, manipulative, and generally unlikable. I think there was the general consensus even back then that she was "using" Bill for political leverage because she didn't leave her husband back then after being publicly humiliated. There's still women who find her as weak because she didn't kick him to the curb. I think myself she came off a bit dumb by going on air vehemently denying that her husband ever cheated on her during that time, I think she took a big risk there and lost. I also think that people saw her as infringing on Bill's own Presidency by treating it as her own. Also, people aren't so willing to forget the scandals with Vince Foster, Bill's last minute Presidential pardons, and the things that happened under Bill's watch (Waco, Elian Gonzalez, the numerous terrorist attacks). Again, I'm just trying to offer some perspective. I don't think its solely a woman thing - I think people there would vote for a woman, I truly do. Just not this one. Its not like they are a bunch of redneck hillbillies, they came out in droves to vote for a black man, after all, I don't think its because of some deep-rooted prejudices. Most women I know there rule their houses with an iron fist. I think they would vote for a woman, but the majority of people find her to be a bitch or a shrew. I don't know, take what you want from this, its just speculation based on my conversations with people there.
    Women ain't gonna let a thing like sense fuck up their argument. - Chris Rock

  6. #81
    Elite Member HWBL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by january View Post
    I can only give speculation on this based on my conversations with numerous people. I know that the deep seated resentment goes way back to when Bill was in office. I think most people there saw her as cold, manipulative, and generally unlikable. I think there was the general consensus even back then that she was "using" Bill for political leverage because she didn't leave her husband back then after being publicly humiliated. There's still women who find her as weak because she didn't kick him to the curb. I think myself she came off a bit dumb by going on air vehemently denying that her husband ever cheated on her during that time, I think she took a big risk there and lost. I also think that people saw her as infringing on Bill's own Presidency by treating it as her own. Also, people aren't so willing to forget the scandals with Vince Foster, Bill's last minute Presidential pardons, and the things that happened under Bill's watch (Waco, Elian Gonzalez, the numerous terrorist attacks). Again, I'm just trying to offer some perspective. I don't think its solely a woman thing - I think people there would vote for a woman, I truly do. Just not this one. Its not like they are a bunch of redneck hillbillies, they came out in droves to vote for a black man, after all, I don't think its because of some deep-rooted prejudices. Most women I know there rule their houses with an iron fist. I think they would vote for a woman, but the majority of people find her to be a bitch or a shrew. I don't know, take what you want from this, its just speculation based on my conversations with people there.
    Hmmm, not sure about this theory or yours. However, if that'd be the case,
    we can rest assured we will NEVER see a Bush in office again for the next
    10 centuries (or until the planet blows up, whichever comes first), since the
    scandals during that idiot's administration far outnumber and outshine those
    during the Clinton administration, should anybody use that to consider
    what candidate to vote for.......
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    ^^But it's different when it's a Republican, doncha know.

  8. #83
    Elite Member HWBL's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by purewine View Post
    ^^But it's different when it's a Republican, doncha know.
    Touché.
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  9. #84
    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
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    There's still women who find her as weak because she didn't kick him to the curb. I think myself she came off a bit dumb by going on air vehemently denying that her husband ever cheated on her during that time, I think she took a big risk there and lost. What I find interesting is that people criticize her more for staying than they do him for straying (multiple times). And some of those who criticize her for not leaving continued to support him.
    I know that the deep seated resentment goes way back to when Bill was in office. I think most people there saw her as cold, manipulative, and generally unlikable.
    See, the cold/ambitious/calculating thing only seems to be applied to women and it's a double edged sword. People don't like a woman if she isn't appeasing,soft, and nurturing, but if she is direct, goal oriented, and unapologetic about it then she's 'too hard'. Then, if she shows any of the softer qualities, that is just proof that a woman isn't 'strong enough' for the job. Yet, if she seems 'strong enough' then she gets blasted for not being a sap. I've heard hillary called 'overly ambitious' in a very negative way and I've never heard a man criticized for being too ambitious, and they don't call a man with high goals 'power hungry', because men are supposed to want political power and women aren't. We're just supposed to want a man to look up to.

  10. #85
    Elite Member january's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by purewine View Post
    ^^But it's different when it's a Republican, doncha know.
    Haha. So true.

    And HWBL, those are just my little musings based upon what I've heard here and there. But I'm not sure if people are comparing the Bush and the Clinton administration, as much as they were just not too pleased with either. I haven't personally heard many kind words towards Bush at all. But I agree personally, its like comparing apples and oranges.
    Women ain't gonna let a thing like sense fuck up their argument. - Chris Rock

  11. #86
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crumpet View Post
    There's still women who find her as weak because she didn't kick him to the curb. I think myself she came off a bit dumb by going on air vehemently denying that her husband ever cheated on her during that time, I think she took a big risk there and lost. What I find interesting is that people criticize her more for staying than they do him for straying (multiple times). And some of those who criticize her for not leaving continued to support him.
    I know that the deep seated resentment goes way back to when Bill was in office. I think most people there saw her as cold, manipulative, and generally unlikable.
    See, the cold/ambitious/calculating thing only seems to be applied to women and it's a double edged sword. People don't like a woman if she isn't appeasing,soft, and nurturing, but if she is direct, goal oriented, and unapologetic about it then she's 'too hard'. Then, if she shows any of the softer qualities, that is just proof that a woman isn't 'strong enough' for the job. Yet, if she seems 'strong enough' then she gets blasted for not being a sap. I've heard hillary called 'overly ambitious' in a very negative way and I've never heard a man criticized for being too ambitious, and they don't call a man with high goals 'power hungry', because men are supposed to want political power and women aren't. We're just supposed to want a man to look up to.
    we women are our own worst enemies. it's funny too that most of the people i know that really despise hilary are women.
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  12. #87
    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
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    ^^^^Any idea why that is?

    I think there is a lot of self-fulfilling phrophecy type thinking going on. It's like people hear something often enough and they just start repeating it, such as "If hillary gets the nom, everyone will vote for McCain" so people start internalizing that message and adopt the bandwagon mentality ("I don't want McCain to win, so I won't vote for Hillary to get the nom"). Where is the proof of this? It looks to me like she's doing pretty well. So what if there is an actual fight for the nom? That's a good thing becasue it means she and Obama have enough supporters to make this a tight race. I just don't get the assumption that all these Dems who would have voted for Obama will be voting for McCain if Obama isn't the Presidential candidate.

    I honestly have a feeling we will be seeing both of them on the ticket in the end.

  13. #88
    Elite Member Laurent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crumpet View Post
    I think there is a lot of self-fulfilling phrophecy type thinking going on. It's like people hear something often enough and they just start repeating it, such as "If hillary gets the nom, everyone will vote for McCain" so people start internalizing that message and adopt the bandwagon mentality ("I don't want McCain to win, so I won't vote for Hillary to get the nom"). Where is the proof of this? It looks to me like she's doing pretty well.
    It looks that way to me, too.

    I said it once, but the black votes in the south are not going to go to McCain should Clinton get the nomination. It will not happen.

    I'll trust january's assertion that much of the mid-west doesn't like Clinton, but I know that in my section of the country at least, people who voted for Obama are not only Democrats, they are vehemently anti-Republican. If Clinton is the nominee, she'll be who the Democrats here get behind, regardless.
    “What are you looking at, sugar-tits?” - Mel Gibson

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    Quote Originally Posted by crumpet View Post
    ^^^^Any idea why that is?

    I think there is a lot of self-fulfilling phrophecy type thinking going on. It's like people hear something often enough and they just start repeating it, such as "If hillary gets the nom, everyone will vote for McCain" so people start internalizing that message and adopt the bandwagon mentality ("I don't want McCain to win, so I won't vote for Hillary to get the nom"). Where is the proof of this? It looks to me like she's doing pretty well. So what if there is an actual fight for the nom? That's a good thing becasue it means she and Obama have enough supporters to make this a tight race. I just don't get the assumption that all these Dems who would have voted for Obama will be voting for McCain if Obama isn't the Presidential candidate.

    I honestly have a feeling we will be seeing both of them on the ticket in the end.
    I don't think Democrats will vote for McCain if Hilary is the nominee. I think Republicans and independents who would otherwise not vote or would vote for Obama will vote for McCain, even if they don't particularly like him, therefore tipping the election in favor of McCain. IOW, McCain will get alot of the anti-Hillary vote, whereas there really is no anti-Obama vote (or if there is, it's too small to matter).

  15. #90
    Elite Member cynic's Avatar
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    ^^Yah, but the rednecks will all get motivated to vote in the general election just so they don't have to have a president who is black or female....ya'll should just hear what I've been listening to here from my Republican White Male co-workers.....there are guys planning to vote who have never voted before.....

    The redneck vote is gonna be big....

    If Republicans win, I'm coming up to Canada, because even though I'm pushing 50....I'm worried about getting drafted......

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