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Thread: Iran leader sparks walkout at UN over Israel

  1. #16
    Elite Member Aella's Avatar
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    Jun 2006


    Quote Originally Posted by january View Post
    Thats hilarious. The only reason he's "wrong" is because its the pot calling the kettle black. Israel IS a cruel and repressive racist regime, as is Iran. Ahmadinejad is a blithering idiot with a big mouth, but any scholar would be able to say the same thing (and does) regarding Israel. What I find amazing is that they took the time to play the Holocaust card once again, and can I say for the ONE HUNDREDTH time that an attack on Israel, the terrible regime that it is, is not always an attack on the Jews. Its almost like if you state the obvious - that Israel commits war crimes, kills innocent civilians, and commits crimes against humanity - they deter your logical observation by stating "oh, Jew hater!" The Holocaust card is always played to deflect from the fact that Israel has created its own Holocaust in the West Bank. But I guess to some people, its justified (as my eyes roll back in my head). Now in this particular case, they are right that he hates Jews. But the message is lost here, and a "solidarity" for a terrible oppressive regime like Israel is somehow forged because of this idiot. Thats the real crime here. Just because he's "wrong" does not somehow make Israel "right".
    THIS. Just ita to everything.
    "Remember to always be yourself. Unless you suck." - Joss Whedon

    "The only thing more expensive than education is ignorance." -Benjamin Franklin

  2. #17
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by january View Post

    Absolutely, but my problem with it is because Israel has the resources and the power, they commit war crimes on a MUCH larger scale, with a huge amount of civilian casualties. Like I've said before, its like a kid throwing a rock through the glass window of a house and the homeowners come out, steal his land and kill all of his neighbors. Now, thats not giving the Palestinians a pass, AT ALL. If the situation was reversed and they had the US giving them military aid, financial support, and they knew they wouldn't be punished for massive civilian casualties, they would do the same thing. Neither party is a victim here, they've both done wrong. But the difference is that Israel has the upper hand and likes to play it - a lot. Thats why I get angry at Israel the way I do. They love to exert their power in that region because they know they will never face any consequences, and they have the power and the aid to kill many more people than the Palestinians ever could. Plus they have them all boxed into one little area with no place to flee, but thats a whole other subject that seems to get ignored a lot.

    Anyone else think it was a coincidence when they killed a massive amount of civilians, mainly women and children, in Gaza and then retreated days before Obama took office? They just wanted to get their kicks in one last time before Bushie left office, and they didn't know how Obama would respond to them committing acts against humanity. Right now they are trying to play nice for the moment until they can figure Obama out.
    Agree with everything, especially the part in bold. I think Israel is wondering if Obama will kiss their ass the way every other U.S. president seems to do. And I think it makes them nervous that he's not taking such a hardline stance against the Arab world the way Bush did.

  3. #18
    Elite Member nana55's Avatar
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    Oct 2005
    dreaming about being on a lake in Ontario


    Quote Originally Posted by january View Post
    Well, we can politely agree to disagree then. I DO absolutely, 100% believe that Israel is a cruel and repressive regime and has committed egregious war crimes, in Lebanon and in the West Bank, amidst many others. But I hold great respect for people of all religions. I just don't like it being used as a shield to deflect any criticism. I think its a weak argument to say that an argument against Israel is an argument against Jewish people, and its a crime to do so because it just deflects from very real problems within the government. They massacred many, many innocent people and have much blood on their hands, and for once they need to be held accountable. Anti-semitism is often used as a deflection. I get worked up over this because when I see people dying and suffering, its absolutely appalling to me that people turn a blind eye or they can somehow justify it, I cannot understand that. I just can't watch human rights violations occur and give it a thumbs up or walk away.
    Wow, I have so many Jewish friends and have only heard their side. I understand all the background, but that was a long time ago. What Israel is doing now is awful. I also don't think that to speak out against Israel means I hate Jews. I vehemently deny that. I'm not saying I have A Jewish friend, I have many Jewish friends. I live in San Diego and there isn't a big community of Jews. I have Orthodox Friends also. We don't discuss the issue at all. I have a friend who is a non-believer but follows the religion as he likes the traditions. I have another friend who is very pro-Israel and I'm really close to her and admire her so I've always listened to her. I know know she gets all her information from websites and blogs. I have many friends we don't even discuss religion at all. they know I'm an atheist anyway.So you can "hate the sin,(Israel) love the sinner"(Jews), to borrow a phrase.
    If I can't be a good example, then let me be a horrible warning.

  4. #19
    Elite Member effie2's Avatar
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    Where it all begun


    Quote Originally Posted by Aella View Post
    THIS. Just ita to everything.
    Nothing more to add,congrats once again Jan.
    "Effie is all kinds of awesome." - Some internet moderator

  5. #20
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    Oct 2005
    fellow traveller


    it's not this black and white. yes, iran's president is a moron and repeatedly calling for the destruction of israel and then calling them names will piss off israel's allies, but there is a much bigger picture here and that is the whole durban review process as a whole. this is not about the occupation per se. this is about the review of a world conference on racism that took place in south africa in 2001.

    these are the times i don't miss being in geneva anymore or i would have been sitting at that very meeting, seething, listening to speech after speech.

    in a nutshell: since the original durban conference, islamic countries have been trying to put defamation on the list of forms of discrimination cited in the durban declaration and plan of action. western countries argue that this isn't racism, and that it will only be used to curb freedom of expression and people's right to criticise and question religion, especially in theocratic, hardline muslim countries like iran.

    western and european response has been, well, you want to put religion in there, then let's have homophobia too. and of course that makes all muslim countries (and a lot of other southern countries) run away screaming and talking nonsense.
    and that's what it's been like for years.

    then, canada withdrew from the process. about a year or more ago. and since then, several europeans have been threatening to do the same, over various issues: the defamation. which was finally taken out. but they have been insisting on the gay rights, at least some have. and since the conference started earlier this week, euro countries have been dropping like flies: poland, italy, and even the czech republic, who hold the EU presidency right now.

    but mostly they just don't understand why the israel thing has to be in there. it's an occupation. and this is a conference on racism. but muslim countries have pretty much taken over the human rights council and shoved the israel-palestine issue into EVERYTHING, and it's the same in other UN organisations. and i mean everything. you can't even have a resolution on water sanitation at the WHO without them pushing the issue into the text. it's ridiculous.
    there are no other country situations in the durban text. why should the israel-palestine issue be in there. why not darfur? why not chechnya? why not ireland?

    and then they band together and protect each other from scrutiny when it comes to issues like, say, darfur, or political prisoners in iran. cause they don't want the west coming in and telling them how to run their country.
    it's ridiculous.
    and because they and their allies represent the majority (thanks to countries like indonesia, philippines, venezuela, bolivia, nicaragua, etc), there is nothing anyone can do.

    so, basically, there was a lot more to the walking out than it seems. though i still think they were right to do so.
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

  6. #21
    Elite Member MohandasKGanja's Avatar
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    Well, we certainly taught them well. Being on the security council, and/or having a veto has been a great way to have the patina of observing human rights while doing just the opposite. The United States has been vetoing U.N. resolutions against Israel for decades, whether they were deserved or not.

    My feeling is that it is commonly believed that Palestinians or their terrorist proxies begin to spontaneously bomb Israel (and inviting a response) for no good reason. However, Israel has been busily ignoring its promises to the United States (and everyone else) to stop building settlements in the West Bank in an effort to prevent the area from ever being another potentially autonomous Palestinian territory.

  7. #22
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    "slamic countries have been trying to put defamation on the list of forms of discrimination cited in the durban declaration and plan of action"

    That's the main reason I can't abide the Islamic critics of The West. There are legitimate issues but the Islamic nations ALWAYS preface every discussion with total compliance to Islam and initiatives that would make any perceived slight to Islam a international offense (Danish cartoonists should rot in jail.)

    It's impossible to get to the real crimes of Israel against the Palestinians when all roads blocked with efforts to make us all bow to Islam.

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