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Thread: Hispanic growth moving eastward

  1. #31
    Elite Member Sojiita's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nana55 View Post
    No one argues that the immigrants bust their ass. However their children and second generation, not so much. I know I work in a california elementary school and have for 25 years. They insist they are Mexican even if born here, even if they have never been to Mexico. How can they become American with that attitude. Of course no one wants to pick fruit and only desperate people do it. It has always been like that. Even decent wages won't change that. However decent wages will prevent the huge influx we get. Most are not coming to pick fruit, at least not for very long. Mexican are in all types of jobs, the hotel and food industry is almost exclusivly Hispanic......why, because they pay them under the table, or shit wages with no benefits. They will live 2 to 3 to a house. Why would we be proud of that. Pay a decent wage and you will get busboys who speack English, maids who speak English etc. "In and Out" pays $11.00 an hour. They have no trouble getting employees and manage to make a tidy profit. Restaurant and hotels just want such a big fucking profit they pay crap to their employees. Pay a good wage and you will have your pick. I worked as a busboy and maid and I learned a lot. I wouldn't do it now, they pay such crap wages, not even minimum wage. If your hispanic, you don't dare complain, they'll turn you in. The gangs are another huge problem. My husband who was a huge Hispanic supporter opened his business in a heavily Latino area, he has changed his mind now.
    I will add that one thing I have seen with the latino immigrants(they come from other parts of central America besides Mexico here) is that they are almost all extremely hard working. I know many of them are just saving money to send back home, and alot will live together in one place to save money. Not too long ago we had a terrible apartment fire 2 miles away from me that killed ten people-all immigrants both legal and illegal-and ALL TEN IN ONE 3 BEDROOM APARTMENT!!! A real tragedy. They called 911 but just kept saying 'Fuego! Fuego! and then hanging up with no other info-that delayed the response. . As hardworking as they are I wish they would bring their families up here and settle down and stay and assimilate more and not send their very hard earned money to another country.
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  2. #32
    Hit By Ban Bus! AliceInWonderland's Avatar
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    whats w/ all this "they" talk, thats the first sign of ingnorance. I could do the same thing when describing other nationalities or ethnic groups and I'd sound like a complete moron and bigot.

    quit generalizing; its not smart.

  3. #33
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    [quote=nana55;774268]No one argues that the immigrants bust their ass. However their children and second generation, not so much.
    That is because there children have assimilated. They have been immersed in American culture and way of living. They are Americans. Isn't that what people want in the debate of immigration and assimilation? Recent immigrants are here to work. Assimilation is not what they strive for, only their children and future generations become fully assimilated.

    I know I work in a california elementary school and have for 25 years. They insist they are Mexican even if born here, even if they have never been to Mexico. How can they become American with that attitude.
    I don't understand what you are trying to say with this? 1st and 2nd generation immigrants are called Mexican-American. You never stop being Mexican. Pride in their ethnicity and culture is an attitude?

    Of course no one wants to pick fruit and only desperate people do it. It has always been like that. Even decent wages won't change that. However decent wages will prevent the huge influx we get. Most are not coming to pick fruit, at least not for very long. Mexican are in all types of jobs, the hotel and food industry is almost exclusivly Hispanic......why, because they pay them under the table, or shit wages with no benefits.
    There not all Mexicans! Central and South Americans are plentyful.

    They will live 2 to 3 to a house. Why would we be proud of that.
    Shouldn't you direct your disgust towards slum landlords who exploit people who are vulnerable? These slum landlords get paid in cash. They can charge around $100-$300 a month for a person to share a floor with 9 other people. They can get several thousands of dollars in cash a month doing this. I can assure you they don't pay any taxes on this money.

    Pay a decent wage and you will get busboys who speack English, maids who speak English etc.
    It's speak. Sorry hat to point it out, since it was about speaking English.

    "In and Out" pays $11.00 an hour. They have no trouble getting employees and manage to make a tidy profit. Restaurant and hotels just want such a big fucking profit they pay crap to their employees. Pay a good wage and you will have your pick. I worked as a busboy and maid and I learned a lot. I wouldn't do it now, they pay such crap wages, not even minimum wage. If your hispanic, you don't dare complain, they'll turn you in. In N' Out Burger is an ideal business model. They tend to only hire students. It's what I have seen. Anyhow, restaurants and hotels have such a huge turnover rate, that they take what they can get, hence the influx of immigrants. They are shit jobs, with shit pay. I sure as hell would never do it. Simple economics are that if they raise the wages, they raise their product price. So are you willing to pay more for food and a hotel stay? There is no way around that, it is not a scare tactic or a simple response. If they are forced to pay a higher wage, then they must raise their prices to make a profit.

    The gangs are another huge problem. My husband who was a huge Hispanic supporter opened his business in a heavily Latino area, he has changed his mind now. Some bad seeds are not a reflection of an ethnic group. Are gangs a problem. Yes, but so are a lot of other things.
    Last edited by Lucky32; August 12th, 2007 at 09:05 PM. Reason: Fixed it DoveFeatheredRaven.

  4. #34
    Elite Member DoveFeatheredRaven's Avatar
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    Okay Lucky 32, since you made yourself the spelling police, I thought you might also want to take note that "a lot" isn't one word. Nana's actually looked like a typo to me.


    Back on topic, I don't think there is fear as much as annoyance with a complete lack of effort to integrate with the American culture, specifically with learning the language. And to be honest, the almighty dollar seems to be driving businesses and companies to accomodate non-English speakers. What motivation do many of them even have to actually learn English? They don't have to! And this annoyance about learning or knowing our language isn't a uniquely American thing. Try visiting France and see how much assistance THEY give non-French speakers! lol

    My previous school district had an enormous Hispanic population. When you get a five year old who doesn't speak English, the issue is more easily addressed than a 16 or 17 year old with little or no English language ability. The money that is spent on this problem is enormous and makes it really difficult for small schools to address. Further, No Child Left Behind has created timetables for learning the language and being up to the same standards as life-long English language speakers that are just impossible for junior high and high school ESL kids to reach.
    Last edited by DoveFeatheredRaven; August 12th, 2007 at 08:54 PM.

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    You're absolutely right DFR - unwillingness to learn the language of the country you either choose to live in, or even worse, are actually BORN in is indefensible. By all means speak Spanish, Urdu, Arabic, Chinese, etc at home with your family but don't expect the Govt to provide you with an education in anything other than English. I know it's much harder for the older generations to learn a new language, but bringing up kids so speak only what is effective a 'foreign' language puts them at a huge disadvantage and I cannot understand why anyone would do it.

    If, for example, a Canadian went to live in Guatemala, for example, and demanded that their kids be educated in English (or possibly French) because they haven't learned any Spanish what do you think the reaction would be?
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  6. #36
    Super Moderator Tati's Avatar
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    ^^ I agree. It can be damaging to the English (or whatever native tongue) speaking kids in the class too. In Toronto public schools, there are huge concerns now about fluent english speaking kids being left bored to tears and sitting with their heads down on their desks while the teachers are forced to explain things ad nauseum and basically try to teach english to the kids who don't speak it. It's actually making me really torn, as I would love for my (future) kids to live in such a multi-cultural environment, but not at the expense of their education.

    It would be one thing if there were no resources available - but I can't walk two blocks or get on the bus or subway without seeing myriad signs/ads for free English classes, for both kids and adults. And I think that's great, no complaints there at all. But why don't more people use them?

    It also mystifies me when people cannot even answer "what is your name?" or "what is your address?" when they actually live in Canada. Who would even travel to a country on vacation without learning some basic phrases? You don't even have to understand, just memorize these phrases and know how to answer. I used to work as a pharmacy technican, and it scared me - how are you going to understand our instructions and take your medication correctly if you can't even give us your name? Of course, we ended up learning some basic Spanish phrases instead, and keeping a Spanish dictionary next to the register. Um....
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    I dunno, I went to public school (not all that long ago) in downtown Toronto where oodles of kids were ESL and had a great enriched learned environment. That said, that was BEFORE Harris and his idiots (previous Conservative gov't that made massive cuts to education). I think that is the greater crime than anything, schools need funding and unless we're willing to put money into it, then we shouldn't complain when we get poor results.

    That said, where I currently live in Scarberia and with oodles of ESL students, our public school is ranked one of the best in Toronto, so I think a lot of it depends on the educators, administrators and community support. I know our school receives a lot of help from the community, but of course that all relates back to the staff who encourage and inspire it.

    And most of those free English classes, aren't free. I've been volunteering for a free English class and learning from the TOESL ot TESL teacher, many of them are scams by various companies. The free classes such as LINC are often stuffed to the gills and poorly resourced with crummy gov't admin and most true free english classes are much the same and offered either by non-profits, churches (and usually only one denomenation does it without annoying recruitment or pushy religious stuff) or charities.

    I think it would be a great eye opener for anyone complaining about new immigrants not speaking the language to actually spend some time doing ESL work for free. I've learned so much in my year doing it and have had students from all sorts of backgrounds and ages. All eager to learn not only the language, the culture, the history and everything else they can absorb. I'm sure there are immigrants who don't do anything, but in my experience, they have definitely been the minority and do not deserve to be lumped in with the tonnes of hardworking immigrants that Canada has been built on.

    BTW, these complaints are not very new, my mother can recall her family who migrated from Ireland facing discrimination for "not speaking proper English" and then other immigrants such as Italians, Greeks for their weird customs and not assimilating. My opinion, if people didn't assimilate to the First Nations when they first came here, we shouldn't expect anyone else to assimilate to our ways.

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    A*O
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    NEW immigrants not speaking English - not a problem. Give them the resources and encouragement to learn it and I'm sure most will happily participate.
    2nd or 3rd generation immigrants who still don't have basic skills in English - no excuse. Sorry. And providing special non-English education merely perpetuates the problem.
    I you choose to live in a diffierent country to that of our birth, or are born there, do yourself, your family and everyone else a favour and at least try to speak the national language instead of whinging about lack of educational opportunities because the Govt won't provide a teacher who speaks Croatian or Bulgarian. Seriously.
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    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
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    I used to work as a pharmacy technican, and it scared me - how are you going to understand our instructions and take your medication correctly if you can't even give us your name? Of course, we ended up learning some basic Spanish phrases instead, and keeping a Spanish dictionary next to the register. Um....

    And some would have the audacity to hold the pharmacy responsible for not having instructions in Spanish, Vietnamese, Croatian, etc.
    At the expense of the company no less.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A*O View Post
    NEW immigrants not speaking English - not a problem. Give them the resources and encouragement to learn it and I'm sure most will happily participate. 2nd or 3rd generation immigrants who still don't have basic skills in English - no excuse.
    2nd and 3rd generation immigrants are American. They stopped being immigrants a couple of generations back. It's an utter lie to say that they don't have basic skills in English. They were born here, therefore they started their education just the same as any other American child. 2nd and 3rd generation are immigrants grand children and great grandchildren. Do you really believe that they still have no basic skills in English?

    Good for you GardenofEve for volunteering. I am sure it has given you a completely different perspective on people. I also teach adults to read and write once a week. I have been doing this for about 8 years and have had people from all walks of life. All ethnicites, many Americans, and all ages. It taught me not to judge people as quickly. I have tutored people that I would of never expected to be illiterate. I highly recommend volunteering and giving back to your communities.

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Yeahhhh... i hate people who pull that "me no speaky engrish!" crap when it's convenient for them.

    Like those bitches who live across the street. I don't care if you're 90 fucking years old, if you're in a country for long enough you ought to know how to say SOMETHING.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky32 View Post
    2nd and 3rd generation immigrants are American. They stopped being immigrants a couple of generations back. It's an utter lie to say that they don't have basic skills in English. They were born here, therefore they started their education just the same as any other American child. 2nd and 3rd generation are immigrants grand children and great grandchildren. Do you really believe that they still have no basic skills in English?
    I can't say I've ever come across a child who was born here who didn't speak English unless I happened to be in Quebec. Likewise with other parts of the world. I've never met anyone who didn't speak the predominant language of the country they were born in. I've pretty much grown up with a generation of people who were either born here or arrived when they were tiny and all speak flawless English, because they went to public schools and guess what they speak in public schools? English! However whenever a discussion like this comes up, people born in various countries who don't know the predominant language, just show up in droves.

    I really enjoy the volunteer work. I've learned a lot about various other countries and cultures, got a tonne of recipes and picked up a few words and phrases in other languages. Though my students grasp of English will always be tonnes better than my grasp of any other language, and I studied french for a decade and a half! I only wish I spoke as many languages as my students.

  13. #43
    Hit By Ban Bus! AliceInWonderland's Avatar
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    great posts Lucky!


    Yeahhhh... i hate people who pull that "me no speaky engrish!" crap when it's convenient for them.

    Like those bitches who live across the street. I don't care if you're 90 fucking years old, if you're in a country for long enough you ought to know how to say SOMETHING.
    try bitch slapping them Grimm!

    but hey, i've used that ploy to get out of talking to gross men trying to talk to me before, I shit you not, it was hilarious - men are so stupid, they fell for it hook line and sinker!

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Alice:

    go on youtube, look up "Honey Nut Shetbags"
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Elite Member JamieElizabeth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucky32 View Post
    2nd and 3rd generation immigrants are American. They stopped being immigrants a couple of generations back. It's an utter lie to say that they don't have basic skills in English. They were born here, therefore they started their education just the same as any other American child. 2nd and 3rd generation are immigrants grand children and great grandchildren. Do you really believe that they still have no basic skills in English?
    A*O is acutally Austrailan. Maybe there is a differing viewpoints on formalities. Right now, as you can see there are no rules as far as taxing, and adhering to a formal structure of govn't. Look at the beginning of the thread.
    Last edited by JamieElizabeth; August 13th, 2007 at 08:40 PM. Reason: grammer

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