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Thread: Hillary Clinton considers garnishing wages to ensure universal health care

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    Plus, the main problem with Hillary's idea to use tax payer dollars to cover health care for everybody is that the people who are being taxed will not only be paying for their own health care, but for the health care of the people who REFUSE to work. Now, why should people who get out bed to work to make sure they have benefits have to take care of the people who don't want to work.

    Now, as far as the people who are uninsured because they are poor or for whatever legitimate reason, then those are the ones that the government needs to try and take care of. Now, if tax dollars were going to be used to cover just those group of people, then I wouldn't have a problem with it.
    Seriously? How do you expect anyone to weed out those who refuse to work from those who can't? Even welfare can't do that. Plus to try & do so would waste some of those precious dollars you have in a chokehold.

    You're currently paying for kids to be educated who will choose to waste that education, should they be forced to repay you? Or perhaps just weed them out in kindergarten? After all if they're wasting your money why bother investing in them at all? It's not like they'll ever change or see the error of their ways. Much better to kick them while they're down and keep them there than extend a hand and help them up.

    Part of being a society means taking care of everyone regardless of their contributions. Healthcare should not be a 'I'll give you this if you give me that' situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by western View Post
    Seriously? How do you expect anyone to weed out those who refuse to work from those who can't? Even welfare can't do that. Plus to try & do so would waste some of those precious dollars you have in a chokehold.

    You're currently paying for kids to be educated who will choose to waste that education, should they be forced to repay you? Or perhaps just weed them out in kindergarten? After all if they're wasting your money why bother investing in them at all? It's not like they'll ever change or see the error of their ways. Much better to kick them while they're down and keep them there than extend a hand and help them up.

    Part of being a society means taking care of everyone regardless of their contributions. Healthcare should not be a 'I'll give you this if you give me that' situation.
    Yeah, you're right, part of being in a society should mean taking care of everybody. But you know what else it should be about? People learning to pull their weight, and help contribute to society.

    And throwing up the education issue is a poor example, and you know it is. Health care and education are two different things. If a child goes to school, gets an education, and decides not to do anything with it, that's not the same as somebody who is able to work and contribute sitting on their ass and expecting those that work to take care of them.

    But the one similarity between education and universal health care is this, the government controls educational funding by using our tax dollars, right? But yet there are schools in this country that are so poor and run down that there are kids using textbooks that their parents used back when they were in school. So, if the government can't even make sure that ALL children are getting the same level of education with our tax dollars, then what makes you think that a government-run health care system will mean that everyone gets the same level of medical coverage with those same tax dollars?

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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    There's nothing idiotic about knowing the government won't actually be able to provide universal health care and cover everyone effectively. In fact, name me one government-run social program, which health care would fall under, where they've been able to pull it off effectively, and not make cuts in order to save money.

    Now, while universal health care sounds good in theory, it won't be accomplished for various reasons. Primarily, because the insurance companies will NEVER allow it to happen, because they make entirely too much money charging people whatever they want.

    Plus, the main problem with Hillary's idea to use tax payer dollars to cover health care for everybody is that the people who are being taxed will not only be paying for their own health care, but for the health care of the people who REFUSE to work. Now, why should people who get out bed to work to make sure they have benefits have to take care of the people who don't want to work.

    Now, as far as the people who are uninsured because they are poor or for whatever legitimate reason, then those are the ones that the government needs to try and take care of. Now, if tax dollars were going to be used to cover just those group of people, then I wouldn't have a problem with it.
    Those who have private insurance will still have private insurance. Those who don't will be given public insurance paid for with taxes. No one is saying you have to give up your private insurance. So really, you don't have a problem with either Hilary or Obama's programs.

    In the UK, even though they have National Health, if you can afford private insurance, you can see your own private doctors. It's only the ones that can't afford it that have to use National Health.

    Besides, your tax dollars already go to pay for medical care for those that are too lazy to work. It's called Medicaid, and welfare recipients get it.


    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post

    But the one similarity between education and universal health care is this, the government controls educational funding by using our tax dollars, right? But yet there are schools in this country that are so poor and run down that there are kids using textbooks that their parents used back when they were in school. So, if the government can't even make sure that ALL children are getting the same level of education with our tax dollars, then what makes you think that a government-run health care system will mean that everyone gets the same level of medical coverage with those same tax dollars?
    Education and school districts are funded at the State level, not the Federal level. This is why there are poorer districts, because there are less tax dollars in poorer areas.
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    Those who have private insurance will still have private insurance. Those who don't will be given public insurance paid for with taxes. No one is saying you have to give up your private insurance. So really, you don't have a problem with either Hilary or Obama's programs.

    In the UK, even though they have National Health, if you can afford private insurance, you can see your own private doctors. It's only the ones that can't afford it that have to use National Health.

    Besides, your tax dollars already go to pay for medical care for those that are too lazy to work. It's called Medicaid, and welfare recipients get it.
    Did I say that I had to give up my health insurance? No. And why do you keep using Hillary and Obama's names together? Hillary is the one talking about universal health care, not Obama?

    And, yeah, I know that Medicaid is funded by my tax dollars. And I don't have a problem with some welfare recipients getting it, because not everyone who is on welfare refuses to work. Some are on welfare because they are just poor. But, then again, welfare recipients aren't the only ones who get Medicaid, there are senior citizens who get it, too.

    But Hillary's idea of universal health care will never come to pass, so the point is moot. Like I said before, the insurance companies have too much lobby power in Washington, and will not allow that to happen.

    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    Education and school districts are funded at the State level, not the Federal level. This is why there are poorer districts, because there are less tax dollars in poorer areas.
    Actually, education is funded by both the federal and state governments, but primarily by the state. And if the federal government was concerned they could funnel some extra funds into those poorer districts to improve the educational opportunities for those students. Yet, another example of why the government won't be able to effectively run health care.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tkdgirl View Post
    Huh? Yes, I guarantee you I pay 25% federal income taxes. It used to be 27%. I pay $1850 in property taxes, which is close to $500 MORE than my health insurance. Add in the state income tax, in addition to the local taxes, FICA, medicare, etc. and my taxes are close to 40%. I guarantee you.
    Nobody pays 25% of their income in federal income taxes except the incredibly wealth, and probably not even them. 25% is your tax rate but you don't pay taxes on your total income. This year I will be paying somewhere around 8.5% to federal taxes. I paid another 7.3% to FICA (okay I do think that's too high) and 5% in property taxes. That all equals 20.8% . (Sales tax is 8.25% here but I'm not going to factor that in since it's completely dependent on how much crap I buy.) In comparison, we paid 4.6% of our income to medical insurance premiums and that's not even including the employer-paid portion.

    You're dealing in tons of what ifs. The company I work for has four insurance programs to choose from. In fact, if I complete various health goals this year, my company will give me $300. Why? Because they want their workforce to be healthy. Easy money for me since I'm fit and dont' smoke. If I became unemployed, I'd go fight for a job where health insurance was part of the deal- even if that means slinging burgers. Hell, even Starbucks offers health care to part time employees (though I think they'll go bankrupt, and since they're closing 100 stores...well).
    I want to know what company you work for. I want to work there. You're very fortunate to be working for such a company. All those “what ifs” I listed are the reality for a lot people. For them, it's not so easy as finding a job that provides health insurance. “Slinging burgers” is not typically a job that comes with full benefits. Also, the self-employed and small-business owners often have difficulty finding and affording health insurance. Health care should not be dependent on one's employment but should be available to everyone, anytime.

    You will have to kill capitalism in the United States before the government runs health care. And I pray that won't happen in my lifetime.
    You're being a bit dramatic, aren't you? Our current system is doing enough damage to business. I hardly think a national health care plan would kill capitalism.

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    Doesn't this come down to how people function within their own communities? That's where development in the US is all screwed up. Hillary's first book is entitled, "It Takes a Village and other lessons children teach us". If anyone is to straighten this mess out, I guess she's the #1 bitch.

    You can look at numbers all day long.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamieElizabeth View Post
    Doesn't this come down to how people function within their own communities? That's where development in the US is all screwed up. Hillary's first book is entitled, "It Takes a Village and other lessons children teach us". If anyone is to straighten this mess out, I guess she's the #1 bitch.

    You can look at numbers all day long.
    It's not like Hillary came up with the concept or term 'it takes a village.' Both the term and concept are from an ancient African proverb that she co-opted.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    It's not like Hillary came up with the concept or term 'it takes a village.' Both the term and concept are from an ancient African proverb that she co-opted.
    Isn't that the same concept The Elders are adopting in terms of dealing with
    global issues.
    The Elders :: theElders.org

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    ^And I saw a commerical just the other day with Reece Witherspoon, I forget the organization. Anyone know?

    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    It's not like Hillary came up with the concept or term 'it takes a village.' Both the term and concept are from an ancient African proverb that she co-opted.
    Oh. I didn't know that.
    This process is going to be interesting. If our roots really are African american, I'm afraid that she might be Stalin in disguise. No. I really have no idea. Does anyone really know Hillary's real intent on social change?
    Last edited by Tati; February 5th, 2008 at 02:51 PM.

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    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by yoyoma View Post
    Isn't that the same concept The Elders are adopting in terms of dealing with
    global issues.
    The Elders :: theElders.org
    Exactly. So, it's not like Hillary should be given credit for coming up with it, when she didn't.

    Quote Originally Posted by JamieElizabeth View Post
    ^And I saw a commerical just the other day with Reece Witherspoon, I forget the organization. Anyone know?

    Oh. I didn't know that.
    This process is going to be interesting. If our roots really are African american, I'm afraid that she might be Stalin in disguise. No. I really have no idea. Does anyone really know Hillary's real intent on social change?
    To keep Bill from getting blown by anymore interns. LOL.

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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    Did I say that I had to give up my health insurance? No. And why do you keep using Hillary and Obama's names together? Hillary is the one talking about universal health care, not Obama?

    And, yeah, I know that Medicaid is funded by my tax dollars. And I don't have a problem with some welfare recipients getting it, because not everyone who is on welfare refuses to work. Some are on welfare because they are just poor. But, then again, welfare recipients aren't the only ones who get Medicaid, there are senior citizens who get it, too.

    But Hillary's idea of universal health care will never come to pass, so the point is moot. Like I said before, the insurance companies have too much lobby power in Washington, and will not allow that to happen.


    I keep metioning Hilary and Obama's health care plans because they both have them. Here's a great link to an article in The Nation regarding the plans:

    Hillary, Obama and Healthcare

    Neither Hilary or Obama is my candidate, so when it comes to the two of them I can be objective and speak without passion.

    Also, few seniors get Medicaid, they get Medicare:

    Although their names are similar, Medicaid and Medicare are very different programs.

    Medicare is an entitlement program funded entirely at the federal level. It is a social insurance focusing primarily on the older population. As stated in the CMS website, Medicare is a health insurance program for people age 65 or older, people under age 65 with certain disabilities, and people of all ages with end stage renal disease. The Medicare Program provides a Medicare part A which covers hospital bills, Medicare Part B which covers medical insurance coverage, and Medicare Part D which covers prescription drugs.

    Medicaid is not an entitlement program, and it is not solely funded at the federal level. Medicaid is a needs-based social welfare or social protection program rather than a social insurance program. Eligibility is determined by income. States provide up to half of the funding for the Medicaid program. In some states, counties also contribute funds. The main criterion for Medicaid eligibility is limited income and financial resources, a criterion which plays no role in determining Medicare coverage. Medicaid covers a wider range of health care services than Medicare.


    Last edited by witchcurlgirl; February 6th, 2008 at 08:28 AM.
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  12. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    I keep metioning Hilary and Obama's health care plans because they both have them. Here's a great link to an article in The Nation regarding the plans:

    Hillary, Obama and Healthcare

    Neither Hilary or Obama is my candidate, so when it comes to the two of them I can be objective and speak without passion.

    Also, few seniors get Medicaid, they get Medicare:

    Although their names are similar, Medicaid and Medicare are very different programs.

    Medicare is an entitlement program funded entirely at the federal level. It is a social insurance focusing primarily on the older population. As stated in the CMS website, Medicare is a health insurance program for people age 65 or older, people under age 65 with certain disabilities, and people of all ages with end stage renal disease. The Medicare Program provides a Medicare part A which covers hospital bills, Medicare Part B which covers medical insurance coverage, and Medicare Part D which covers prescription drugs.

    Medicaid is not an entitlement program, and it is not solely funded at the federal level. Medicaid is a needs-based social welfare or social protection program rather than a social insurance program. Eligibility is determined by income. States provide up to half of the funding for the Medicaid program. In some states, counties also contribute funds. The main criterion for Medicaid eligibility is limited income and financial resources, a criterion which plays no role in determining Medicare coverage. Medicaid covers a wider range of health care services than Medicare.

    Don't try to pull that I can be objective and speak without passion nonsense, when you were the one that posted earlier that some of the things you were reading in this thread were 'so idiotic.' Not exactly the statement of someone who is being objective and speaking without passion.

    Oh, and thanks for that breakdown on Medicare and Medicaid, but I meant what I said when I stated that I know some seniors who are on Medicaid.

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    Quote Originally Posted by purewine View Post
    Nobody pays 25% of their income in federal income taxes except the incredibly wealth, and probably not even them. 25% is your tax rate but you don't pay taxes on your total income. This year I will be paying somewhere around 8.5% to federal taxes. I paid another 7.3% to FICA (okay I do think that's too high) and 5% in property taxes. That all equals 20.8% . (Sales tax is 8.25% here but I'm not going to factor that in since it's completely dependent on how much crap I buy.) In comparison, we paid 4.6% of our income to medical insurance premiums and that's not even including the employer-paid portion.


    I want to know what company you work for. I want to work there. You're very fortunate to be working for such a company. All those “what ifs” I listed are the reality for a lot people. For them, it's not so easy as finding a job that provides health insurance. “Slinging burgers” is not typically a job that comes with full benefits. Also, the self-employed and small-business owners often have difficulty finding and affording health insurance. Health care should not be dependent on one's employment but should be available to everyone, anytime.


    You're being a bit dramatic, aren't you? Our current system is doing enough damage to business. I hardly think a national health care plan would kill capitalism.
    Here is a link to the federal income tax rate scale, schedule X. It will be easy to figure out where I fall. And I wish I was super wealthy!

    I love the company I work for! We just made the Fortune top 100 companies to work for too. I am very fortune.

    The small business insurance issue is a HUGE one. I like the idea of having many small businesses join under one umbrella to get good plans, but even the existing ones are too costly for many small businesses.

    AS for the national health care plan, as long as I have a choice to be covered, then I am somewhat ok with it. But, if I choose to be covered by my work, don't tax me extra to pay for someone else.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tkdgirl View Post
    Here is a link to the federal income tax rate scale, schedule X. It will be easy to figure out where I fall. And I wish I was super wealthy!
    Yes, I'm under the 25% tax rate, too, but that doesn't mean I pay 25% of my total income in taxes. I pay 25% of my taxable income - income minus deductions and exemptions. And then there's tax credits which this year I will have. My actual tax percentage (net tax divided by total income) that I will pay this year is 6.5%. I think the most I ever paid was 11-12% back when I was a single, childless, non-homeowner.

    AS for the national health care plan, as long as I have a choice to be covered, then I am somewhat ok with it. But, if I choose to be covered by my work, don't tax me extra to pay for someone else.
    Well, I don't think you have to worry about that because none of the candidates are proposing that. You're lucky Kucinich dropped out. He was the only one proposing a single payer system.

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    Elite Member tkdgirl's Avatar
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    Kucinich always reminded me of a vulcan, and I don't know why.

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