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Thread: Hillary Clinton considers garnishing wages to ensure universal health care

  1. #46
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    See, this is why Hillary's universal care plan is not going to work. How are you going to think about garnishing people's wages, without their consent, to pay for a universal health care plan that they may not want?

    Personally, I think the government should figure out how to take care of the uninsured people first and foremost, and not just try to make an umbrella decision for the people who already have a health care plan that they're satisfied with.

    Plus, health care would be considered a social program, and usually whenever the economy is tight the social programs are the ones that get cut into first, so that right there is one major reason to be against Hillary's universal health care plan.


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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by qwerty View Post
    No way increased competition will solve anything in this situation.

    There's hardly a health insurance monopoly. There are already a lot of insurance providers out there "competing" for your premiums as long as you are healthy. I found 12 with a quick google search. There are seven health insurance providers in my state alone. These companies aren't climbing all over each other to insure you if you have an already diagnosed cancer or mental illness. It puts a dent in their real estate portfolios and money coffers.

    People/Small Businesses take what coverage they can get and only if they can afford it.
    ^^Agreed. Lack of competition is not the problem. Health care doesn't lend itself very well to the free market model anyway, being as there's no real choice. If you're sick you can either go the doctor or not and get sicker and possibly die. Not really a choice. That's why I would like for us to go to a single-payer system. None of this mandatory health insurance BS. If you want to guarantee that everyone gets health care (NOT health coverage) then single-payer is the way to go.

  3. #48
    Elite Member january's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    See, this is why Hillary's universal care plan is not going to work. How are you going to think about garnishing people's wages, without their consent, to pay for a universal health care plan that they may not want?

    Personally, I think the government should figure out how to take care of the uninsured people first and foremost, and not just try to make an umbrella decision for the people who already have a health care plan that they're satisfied with.
    Preach on! I agree with you 100%, her proposed health care system was one of the main reasons why I am most against voting for her.
    Women ain't gonna let a thing like sense fuck up their argument. - Chris Rock

  4. #49
    Elite Member tkdgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by purewine View Post
    tkdgirl, From what I understand, Medicare is a rather good system and I've never heard any complaints about SS (other than not enough $$$). I don't understand why you would rather entrust the insurance companies who are more beholden to their profits then to your health care. You're a Libertarian, aren't you?
    Because its MY choice. Why should I give up a perfectly acceptable medical plan because the government *thinks* they can do better. If there are those who don't have insurance and want to opt for the government plan, fine. But don't tax me to pay for it if I choose to go with a different medical plan. Tax those who want the gov't health care.

    Nah, I'm a conservative who believes the less government in out lives, the better. We're already taxed far too much in this country. Gov't health care will be absolutely unbearable for many, including the middle to lower class. And of course, we all know that once the gov't realizes they need more money, they'll keep raising taxes, and then put that money toward something else, etc. I already pay 25% in federal taxes alone. Add in the state and local taxes, etc. and its close to 40%. 40% of my hard earned money toward a government that pays $4000 for a hammer.

    Nope, don't buy it.

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    Hmmm, it looks some people got Obama's flyer smearing Hillary's health insurance plan. Last week during the debate Obama said his plan was pretty much like Hillary's except for the opt out option. When he was asked who would be left paying for the care of an estimated 15 million people who would opt out, Obama didn't have an answer. My guess it would be the same people who get stuck paying for the uninsured/low income people now, us.
    If you can't be a good example -- then you'll just have to be a horrible warning

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    Elite Member Dixie Normos's Avatar
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    Wow, when I read that, I assumed she meant 'garnish the wages of her own cabinet.' What purpose will it serve to forcebly remove $$ from people who obviously feel they cannot AFFORD health insurance?

    Hey Hillary, how about this, your country's pro athletes soak up A LOT of medical bills...which they don't even pay, despite their huge paycheques. How about THEY pay into healthcare for those whose companies don't buy it for them?
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    that Heaven is a stranger place than than one I've left behind." - SM

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    Elite Member Sweetie's Avatar
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    They should just take the funds that they pay for the healthcare of slack ass, lazy baby makers and give it to people that actually try to support themselves.

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    Elite Member Cali's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by january View Post
    Preach on! I agree with you 100%, her proposed health care system was one of the main reasons why I am most against voting for her.
    Same here!

    This is an off-shoot, but I'm of the opinion that a significant number of the 'uninsurable' are as such because of mental illnesses. Which is obscene and terrible. I think there needs to be a middle-tier of risk that insurance companies will take on. I'd be happy to pay $50 more a month just to be able to get ANY health insurance.

    I'm currently on COBRA because I aged out of my mom's policy when I turned 25, and I can't get approved for an individual policy. It will run out at the end of 2008, and... I really dont know what I"m going to do.

    The thing that sucks is that I never even get to make my case to the insurance companies: once they hear that I am on 4 medications for depression, they are like 'oh dont even bother applying, I can tell you right now you won't be approved.'

    Nevermind that I've been on the SAME 4 medications for 5 years, completely stable, and I've never been hospitalized or 5150'd. I voluntarily went to an in-patient eating disorder treatment program, but I paid for that ENTIRELY myself (yes all $60k) because my health insurance was such shit.

    Its very disheartening. All I need is an affordable co-pay for my medications, and coverage for 1x / month check-in appointments with my psychiatrist. How hard is that? Its not like I'm in and out of mental hospitals every week, but to the insurance carriers, they are one in the same.

  9. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkdgirl View Post
    Because its MY choice. Why should I give up a perfectly acceptable medical plan because the government *thinks* they can do better. If there are those who don't have insurance and want to opt for the government plan, fine. But don't tax me to pay for it if I choose to go with a different medical plan. Tax those who want the gov't health care.
    What makes you think you have a choice now? If you're getting your insurance through your employer, they could decide tomorrow to change plans that doesn't provide as good coverage or they could decide to eliminate it altogether. And then where will you be? If you're in good health, a insurance company might give you an individual plan. If you're lucky, you could afford it.

    Don't assume that just because you have a good plan now that you'll have one tomorrow. A national health program is a guarantee that everyone has access to health care, no matter their circumstances. Yes, you might have to pay more in taxes. You may not. We could easily pay for a national program on what we pay in premiums to the insurance companies.

    I already pay 25% in federal taxes alone.
    No you don't.

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    Elite Member Dixie Normos's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Calimoonchild View Post
    Same here!

    This is an off-shoot, but I'm of the opinion that a significant number of the 'uninsurable' are as such because of mental illnesses. Which is obscene and terrible. I think there needs to be a middle-tier of risk that insurance companies will take on. I'd be happy to pay $50 more a month just to be able to get ANY health insurance.

    I'm currently on COBRA because I aged out of my mom's policy when I turned 25, and I can't get approved for an individual policy. It will run out at the end of 2008, and... I really dont know what I"m going to do.

    The thing that sucks is that I never even get to make my case to the insurance companies: once they hear that I am on 4 medications for depression, they are like 'oh dont even bother applying, I can tell you right now you won't be approved.'

    Nevermind that I've been on the SAME 4 medications for 5 years, completely stable, and I've never been hospitalized or 5150'd. I voluntarily went to an in-patient eating disorder treatment program, but I paid for that ENTIRELY myself (yes all $60k) because my health insurance was such shit.

    Its very disheartening. All I need is an affordable co-pay for my medications, and coverage for 1x / month check-in appointments with my psychiatrist. How hard is that? Its not like I'm in and out of mental hospitals every week, but to the insurance carriers, they are one in the same.

    I pay $52 monthly in a country that ALREADY TAXES ME FOR FREE HEALTH CARE. and you guys think you have problems poot, this province blows dead bears for bus fare.
    "In the face of the blinding sun, I wake only to find
    that Heaven is a stranger place than than one I've left behind." - SM

  11. #56
    Elite Member tkdgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by purewine View Post
    What makes you think you have a choice now? If you're getting your insurance through your employer, they could decide tomorrow to change plans that doesn't provide as good coverage or they could decide to eliminate it altogether. And then where will you be? If you're in good health, a insurance company might give you an individual plan. If you're lucky, you could afford it.

    Don't assume that just because you have a good plan now that you'll have one tomorrow. A national health program is a guarantee that everyone has access to health care, no matter their circumstances. Yes, you might have to pay more in taxes. You may not. We could easily pay for a national program on what we pay in premiums to the insurance companies.

    No you don't.
    Huh? Yes, I guarantee you I pay 25% federal income taxes. It used to be 27%. I pay $1850 in property taxes, which is close to $500 MORE than my health insurance. Add in the state income tax, in addition to the local taxes, FICA, medicare, etc. and my taxes are close to 40%. I guarantee you.

    You're dealing in tons of what ifs. The company I work for has four insurance programs to choose from. In fact, if I complete various health goals this year, my company will give me $300. Why? Because they want their workforce to be healthy. Easy money for me since I'm fit and dont' smoke. If I became unemployed, I'd go fight for a job where health insurance was part of the deal- even if that means slinging burgers. Hell, even Starbucks offers health care to part time employees (though I think they'll go bankrupt, and since they're closing 100 stores...well).

    A government run health care system will only continue to foster dependence on the government teet. And what about malpractice insurance? Does anyone think the government won't protect themselves?

    You will have to kill capitalism in the United States before the government runs health care. And I pray that won't happen in my lifetime.

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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Some of the things I'm reading here are so idiotic.

    Neither Hilary or Obama is saying you will have to give up your private insurance. Both of their plans would expand PUBLIC programs and PRIVATE insurance options.

    The main difference between their plans is that Clinton would require everyone to have health insurance, while Obama would mandate coverage only for children.

    There are almost 50 MILLION uninsured Americans. These are for various reasons- lack of money, jobs don't offer insurance, etc.

    These reforms have to be done for these 50 million. Not for people who are lucky enough to have great insurance options through their jobs.
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    Elite Member Cali's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dixie Normos View Post
    I pay $52 monthly in a country that ALREADY TAXES ME FOR FREE HEALTH CARE. and you guys think you have problems poot, this province blows dead bears for bus fare.
    Honey, my COBRA costs $600 / month. For SHITTY coverage. And its my ONLY option. And thats on TOP of my co-pays, which are anywhere from $120 / month for Effexor, and a minimum of $30 on the others. I dont know where you're at, but it can't be worse than that.

  14. #59
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    Some of the things I'm reading here are so idiotic.

    Neither Hilary or Obama is saying you will have to give up your private insurance. Both of their plans would expand PUBLIC programs and PRIVATE insurance options.

    The main difference between their plans is that Clinton would require everyone to have health insurance, while Obama would mandate coverage only for children.

    There are almost 50 MILLION uninsured Americans. These are for various reasons- lack of money, jobs don't offer insurance, etc.

    These reforms have to be done for these 50 million. Not for people who are lucky enough to have great insurance options through their jobs.
    There's nothing idiotic about knowing the government won't actually be able to provide universal health care and cover everyone effectively. In fact, name me one government-run social program, which health care would fall under, where they've been able to pull it off effectively, and not make cuts in order to save money.

    Now, while universal health care sounds good in theory, it won't be accomplished for various reasons. Primarily, because the insurance companies will NEVER allow it to happen, because they make entirely too much money charging people whatever they want.

    Plus, the main problem with Hillary's idea to use tax payer dollars to cover health care for everybody is that the people who are being taxed will not only be paying for their own health care, but for the health care of the people who REFUSE to work. Now, why should people who get out bed to work to make sure they have benefits have to take care of the people who don't want to work.

    Now, as far as the people who are uninsured because they are poor or for whatever legitimate reason, then those are the ones that the government needs to try and take care of. Now, if tax dollars were going to be used to cover just those group of people, then I wouldn't have a problem with it.

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    I don't think insurance companies operate in a free market as individual companies (n), it's more like a cartel

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