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Thread: The high price gays pay for lack of (financial) rights

  1. #61
    Elite Member MsDark's Avatar
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  2. #62
    Silver Member albatross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fauvee View Post
    Grimmlok - would you please tell the fine people reading this thread the average wait time in Canada for a hip replacement for a patient between the ages of 50 and 75.

    eta - nevermind, I'm not going to play games. In Canada the wait times for hip replacement surgery for a patient between 50 and 75 is 13 to 18 months. In America for a patient with Health Insurance the wait time is usually as soon as the patient is healthy enough to have the surgery - usually within 2 weeks of the decision to have the procedure. In the US emergency hip replacements are done same day. In Canada patients who require emergency hip replacement surgeries are often sent to the US.

    Facts.
    Service in the US is luck of the draw and is highly dependent on your ability to pay (i.e., your insurance).

    For example, my mother had pain in her hip and went to her doctor, where she was told that she needed a hip replacement, but since her health coverage was with an HMO and she was only 53 at the time, they told her that she would have to wait for 7 years to get that hip replacement, because the HMO would not authorize the surgery before she was 60.

    She suffered in increasing pain for over 2 years and the only thing the HMO offered was higher and higher dosages of pain meds (and regular checks of her kidney and liver function to make sure those didn't get destroyed by the medications). Her life changed so much in those 2+years. Not only was she in increasing pain, but as her hip deteriorated, it became less and less stable, so simple things like walking down steps became a frightening experience because she never knew when the hip was going to slip out.

    Why did this go on for so long? Because for those 2+ years, her employer didn't have any other health insurance options besides the HMO, and she couldn't afford private health insurance, so she had no other options. As soon they offered a PPO option during open enrollment, she switched.

    Once her new insurance went into effect, she made an appointment with her doctor, who referred her to an orthopedic surgeon, who took X-rays and said that she should have had surgery long before it got as bad as it was. Even then it still took a few months just to get on the schedule for the pre-op tests. After the pre-op tests, then it was 2 weeks to get the surgery. By the time that surgery was done, it was more than 3 years after the doctor first told her she needed a hip replacement, and she considered herself lucky because she said that couldn't have survived another 4 years of the pain.

    By the end of that year she had both hips replaced because for those two years she was compensating for the pain in one hip by placing additional stress on her good hip which added to the affects of her arthritis and caused rapid deterioration.
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  3. #63
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    eta - nevermind, I'm not going to play games. In Canada the wait times for hip replacement surgery for a patient between 50 and 75 is 13 to 18 months. In America for a patient with Health Insurance the wait time is usually as soon as the patient is healthy enough to have the surgery - usually within 2 weeks of the decision to have the procedure. In the US emergency hip replacements are done same day. In Canada patients who require emergency hip replacement surgeries are often sent to the US.
    Yeah, way to back up your fact with some kind of reference. It's 185 days, according to Health Canada. That's the median time.

    Chances are, the US, being a population of 300 million, has more facilities equipped to do such things. Also, it's fun that you picked out one of the VERY FEW things that take longer than most other procedures in the Canadian health system.

    How about an MRI? We get yanks coming up all the time for those. Those are same day, or within 3 days.

    Your baseless facts can suck it.

    Quote Originally Posted by albatross View Post
    Service in the US is luck of the draw and is highly dependent on your ability to pay (i.e., your insurance).

    For example, my mother had pain in her hip and went to her doctor, where she was told that she needed a hip replacement, but since her health coverage was with an HMO and she was only 53 at the time, they told her that she would have to wait for 7 years to get that hip replacement, because the HMO would not authorize the surgery before she was 60.

    She suffered in increasing pain for over 2 years and the only thing the HMO offered was higher and higher dosages of pain meds (and regular checks of her kidney and liver function to make sure those didn't get destroyed by the medications). Her life changed so much in those 2+years. Not only was she in increasing pain, but as her hip deteriorated, it became less and less stable, so simple things like walking down steps became a frightening experience because she never knew when the hip was going to slip out.

    Why did this go on for so long? Because for those 2+ years, her employer didn't have any other health insurance options besides the HMO, and she couldn't afford private health insurance, so she had no other options. As soon they offered a PPO option during open enrollment, she switched.

    Once her new insurance went into effect, she made an appointment with her doctor, who referred her to an orthopedic surgeon, who took X-rays and said that she should have had surgery long before it got as bad as it was. Even then it still took a few months just to get on the schedule for the pre-op tests. After the pre-op tests, then it was 2 weeks to get the surgery. By the time that surgery was done, it was more than 3 years after the doctor first told her she needed a hip replacement, and she considered herself lucky because she said that couldn't have survived another 4 years of the pain.

    By the end of that year she had both hips replaced because for those two years she was compensating for the pain in one hip by placing additional stress on her good hip which added to the affects of her arthritis and caused rapid deterioration.
    please stop making sense. it hurts conservatives.
    Last edited by Tati; March 7th, 2009 at 10:20 AM.
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  4. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweetie View Post
    Cry me a river. I have to pay $630.00 a month for health insurance. While my husband only pays $14.00 a week.

    I will stand by gays on a lot of issues, but they aren't the only one's hurting in the insurance department.
    I agree, I've been living with my boyfriend for over 3 years, but we aren't commonlaw married so I can't get insurance. I have health problems, I need insurance or I'll be miserable, but I'll deal with it. On the other hand my gay friend could probably live with a guy for a month and get him insured. I don't see how that's "equal".

    How is it that Canada's is supposedly so horrible, but France and Australias seem to work? Why are we trying to reform to be like Canada's then?

    I wanted to add that to get in as a new patient at the clinic I work at it will be about a month, and sometimes longer if you're coming for a certain doc and/or you're coming from out of town.

  5. #65
    Elite Member WhoAmI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by maryk View Post
    I agree, I've been living with my boyfriend for over 3 years, but we aren't commonlaw married so I can't get insurance. I have health problems, I need insurance or I'll be miserable, but I'll deal with it.
    Why don't you get married? I'm not saying you should, just curious why you don't if it'll help you out financially by giving you health insurance.

  6. #66
    Elite Member Beeyotch's Avatar
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    That's the point, heterosexuals have that option. You choose not to get married, but gays who want to marry cannot, so the comparison doesn't stand.

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    I'm not getting married because I'm in my early 20s, I want to be good and ready when I marry, not another statistic.

    I'm not at all saying that my insurance thing is worse or as bad as gays not being able to marry. My whole point is that it is not equal for some people to be living together and qualify to have their partner on while others together for longer cannot. It's going to be hard to find someone to pay for another surgery if I need one. I'm very glad that gays have that opportunity, but they deserve more. I wish all humans could get married and we did have a clause for commonlaw marriage in every state, but I'll just have to keep praying.

  8. #68
    Elite Member WhoAmI's Avatar
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    If you're in a common-law marriage, that's just as binding as a regular marriage. Still have to get a divorce if it doesn't work out. Are you talking about a domestic partnership?

  9. #69
    Elite Member Fluffy's Avatar
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    ^Only if it's a state that recognizes common law marriages.

  10. #70
    Elite Member WhoAmI's Avatar
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    Are you saying that if she contracts a common-law marriage in one state (which she said she wants to do), and it is recognized as valid in that state, if she moves to another state it may not be valid?

  11. #71
    Silver Member albatross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    please stop making sense. it hurts conservatives.
    Sorry...won't let it happen again...




    Note to self - Remember, everything is better in the US...System is not broken...Tax cuts fix all problems...Universal health care is the work of the Devil...and gay marriage will lead to the complete destruction of this glorious nation.



    Is that better?
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  12. #72
    Elite Member Little Wombat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by chattykathy View Post
    That is what I heard, that you are place on a waiting list in all other countries, and you have to wait, and in some cases, evaluated to see if you deserve further care. So, older folks often die of cancer because they are not deemed cost effective to the system. Have no actual facts for that, just what I have been told by folks who immigrated here.
    I will just say that this was not the case at all when I studied abroad in France. I came back from spending Christmas in the US sick as a dog. After not getting better the next day, my host mother made an appointment with their doctor for me to see him THAT DAY. He checked me out and gave me a prescription for something (don't remember what).

    And I paid very little. Maybe 120 francs? I can't remember, but it was cheap. Nothing like the whacked out costs in the US. The US system has a lot of administrative costs factored in to the total price.
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  13. #73
    Elite Member Fluffy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhoAmI View Post
    Are you saying that if she contracts a common-law marriage in one state (which she said she wants to do), and it is recognized as valid in that state, if she moves to another state it may not be valid?
    Yup.

  14. #74
    Elite Member WhoAmI's Avatar
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    I don't know--according to Wikipedia (always right, of course):

    Nevertheless, all states — including those that have abolished the contract of common-law marriage within their boundaries — recognize common-law marriages lawfully contracted in those jurisdictions that still permit it.
    Common-law marriage in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

  15. #75
    Elite Member Fluffy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhoAmI View Post
    I don't know--according to Wikipedia (always right, of course):
    Nevertheless, all states including those that have abolished the contract of common-law marriage within their boundaries recognize common-law marriages lawfully contracted in those jurisdictions that still permit it.
    Common-law marriage in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    I don't know that many people who actually "contract" a common-law marriage. That is the legal language of it. However, most people just live together and don't get married yet assume they may have protections under "common-law marriage."
    It is not uncommon for someone to claim to be a spouse based upon time the couple spent together in a common law marriage state even after the couple leaves that state. The case law does not definitively establish whether a brief presence in a common law marriage state by a couple who otherwise are eligible to have a common law marriage, that does not establish domicile in that state, gives rise to a common law marriage that must be recognized in a state that does not itself have common law marriage.
    It's such a small number of states that do recognize it anyway. This isn't something I'd want to have to prove in court as you would 1) have to have numbers of documents or people attesting to your relationship and 2) meet the requirements of the particular state you'd be claiming it under. The burden of proof is placed upon the two within the marriage to prove that they were/are "married" under common law. This is basically why states that used to recognize it got rid of it.
    The situation in Pennsylvania became unclear in 2003 when an intermediate appellate court purported to abolish common-law marriage (PNC Bank Corporation v. Workers' Compensation Appeal Board (Stamos), 831 A.2d 1269 (Pa. Cmwlth. 2003)) even though the state Supreme Court had recognized (albeit somewhat reluctantly) the validity of common-law marriages only five years before. (Staudenmayer v. Staudenmayer, 552 Pa. 253, 714 A.2d 1016 (1998).) The Pennsylvania legislature resolved most of the uncertainty by abolishing common-law marriages entered into after January 1, 2005. (Act 144 of 2004, amending 23 Pa.C.S. Section 1103.) However, it is still not certain whether Pennsylvania courts will recognize common-law marriages entered into after the date of the Stamos decision and before the effective date of the statute (i.e., after September 17, 2003, and on or before January 1, 2005), because the other intermediate appellate court has suggested that it might not follow the Stamos decision. (Compare Bell v. Ferraro, 2004 PA Super 144, 849 A.2d 1233 (4/28/2004), with Stackhouse v. Stackhouse, 2004 PA Super 427, 862 A.2d 102 (11/10/2004).)
    Far, far easier to just go down to the courthouse and get that particular piece of paper.

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