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Thread: "He's a nigger" woman shouts at Palin rally

  1. #136
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    Quote Originally Posted by greysfang View Post
    This "argument" makes me sick. There has been 'white privilege' for hundreds of years; but minorities get a hand up with Affirmative Action for 40 years and fundies start screaming 'enough'. Not its not enough, there is still active racism and there are still companies and industries who actively discriminate in hiring. So no, its not equal yet just because you have a handful of minority role models to point at.
    There will always be racism in any society. We will never eliminate it. Even in monoracial African countries, there is tension because of tribal, religious, etc. differences. Active racism doesn't excuse discrimination. We can't fix discrimination with more discrimination.

    I was always told that we judge people as individuals, not as a part of some "priviliged majority" or "underrepresented minority" group. I think it is very hypocritical to say that we want to have a society where racial differences don't matter. And then turn around and give certain groups an advantage in college admission standards and the job market. I don't think we should be trying to socially engineer student bodies, etc. The most qualified should always be chosen; that is the only way to have a color-blind society. It always amazes me that hard core liberals want a color blind society with no discrimination, yet they defend discriminatory programs, like AA, that only lead to more racial division.
    Last edited by purple rain; October 28th, 2008 at 12:43 PM.

  2. #137
    Elite Member greysfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by purple rain View Post
    The most qualified should always be chosen; that is the only way to have a color-blind society. It always amazes me that hard core liberals want a color blind society with no discrimination, yet they defend discriminatory programs, like AA, that only lead to more racial division.
    That's the goal, but without AA all those student bodies and high-end jobs would STILL be all white just as they are still mostly white. There is an end in sight for AA, but its not yet.
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    Elite Member january's Avatar
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    I agree in that I do not believe in (positive) discriminatory practices like affirmative action, I don't see that anyone benefits from it. But to say that you are white and not "privileged", well I think you are just clearly not seeing how you have it infinitely better than those people of color. I can't understand how you could be unaware of that.

    And again, what Michelle said was NOT racist in my view, saying that you would like to help an oppressed minority group because they are close to your heart should be applauded, not condemned. We need more minorities of every race giving back to their communities in positive ways.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    Sluce, the answer is 'yes.' Just as long as you buy the rings and pay for the honeymoon. A brutha is broke.
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    Quote Originally Posted by purple rain View Post
    There will always be racism in any society. We will never eliminate it. Even in monoracial African countries, there is tension because of tribal, religious, etc. differences. And it's not just white people who can be racist, if you haven't noticed.

    I think it is very hypocritical to say that we want to have a colorless society, one where racial differences don't matter. And then turn around and give certain groups an advantage in college admission standards and the job market. I don't think we should be trying to socially engineer student bodies, etc. The most qualified should always be chosen; that is the only way to have a color-blind society. It always amazes me that hard core liberals want a color blind society with no discrimination, yet they defend discriminatory programs, like AA, that only lead to more racial division.
    It amazes me how people keeping trying to pin Affirmative Action on just black people. Affirmative Action has helped minorities AND women. Now, as a black man I don't agree with programs that call for quotas and saying that you don't have to be as qualified as your white/male counterpart for a job. I think that's just as racist/sexist as saying that you can't have the job because of race or gender.

    And Affirmative Action, in it's present form, needs to be retooled. But until we have a society where people are judged completely by the content of their character, and not by the color of their skin or their gender, then you need programs in place to make sure the scales are kept balanced.

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    Quote Originally Posted by greysfang View Post
    That's the goal, but without AA all those student bodies and high-end jobs would STILL be all white just as they are still mostly white. There is an end in sight for AA, but its not yet.
    I disagree. Just look at Asian immigrants, as an example. They are the higest earning racial group in the country. In many California colleges, Asians make up the majority (or are at least the most numerous racial group) of student bodies when they are, what, 10-12% of the population?

    Regardless, if many student bodies are mostly white, so what? If they were the most qualified students, they should be the ones admitted. I don't see them as "white students," just students. I don't believe in social engineering. Are we next going to issue a mandate that basketball and football teams have a certain percentage of their team composed of (less talented) white players in order to ensure diversity? IMO, that's just as ridiculous as AA. Just pick the most qualified students and job candidates.

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    Elite Member greysfang's Avatar
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    AA has NEVER included quotas. In fact, a 'quota' is illegal unless it is specifically set by a federal judge, i.e., in Denver County a federal judge ordered a percentage of the police force must be of minority heritage because of the blatant racism present in its hiring practices.

    Myth: Affirmative action means quotas.

    Fact: Quotas are illegal -- AA merely establishes the true qualified talent pool.



    Summary

    Quotas are illegal in the United States, except on rare occasions when judges order them to correct blatant discrimation. Affirmative action works by setting flexible goals -- which are based on the percentage of qualified minorities and women in the region. A company that searches in good faith but fails to find qualified minorities or women is not penalized for their failure.



    Argument

    Affirmative action is not a quota system, which would be illegal in the United States. The only exception is when a judge orders a quota on a company that has been found guilty of extreme or blatant discrimination in employment.

    What is affirmative action, then? It is really a system of goals. Companies are encouraged to search in good faith for qualified minority or female employees. Their goal -- that is, the percentage of minorities and women they are seeking to hire -- is primarily determined by the percentage of qualified minorities and women in the region. (There are other factors). A company incurs no legal penalty if it makes a good-faith search but still cannot meet its goals.

    Some critics of affirmative action claim this is still a quota system, since it quantifies the number of minorities and women that a company is supposed to hire. But notice that this system does not require a company to hire unqualified people to meet its goals. Also note that goals are flexible, since they are derived from the (changing) number of qualified minority and female workers in the region. Also note that if the company fails to meet its goal, the goal is simply re-established the next year -- and the next and the next, as long as the company fails to find qualified people. This is far different from a rigid quota system, in which a company must hire a certain percentage of minorities and women, or else be penalized by a judge.

    Affirmative action means quotas.
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    Elite Member nwgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by southernbelle View Post
    If the candidates stopped and individually addressed every comment, they wouldn't get anything done.

    I am tired of people grasping at every straw to make them look bad while giving Obama a free pass for all of his direct associations with highly questionable individuals, some of whom are also outspoken racists.
    Funny how she had time to stop one of her recent speeches to say that maybe protestors (people shouting "Obama") shouldn't be thrown out of her rally so they could be "taught a lesson". Yeah, she has time to stop and say that, but not time to address a racist remark that you can plainly see she heard?

    And it's not really "straws" when you take, as a whole, their words, tone and obvious intent that they've been spewing (or having others spew) at their rallies. They have blatently played on people's fear of Obama's race and perceived religion in regards to his "link" to terrorists and have painted him and Michelle as anti-white. All under the guise of "disclosing" and "discussing" his associations. What a crock of shit. I'm actually sorry to see that obviously people are falling for this crap.

    And if they should not be held responsible for what other people say, then by that logic, Obama's "associations" with highly questionable people, even outspoken racists, shouldn't even be an issue. How is he responsible for what other people say?
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    Quote Originally Posted by january View Post
    I agree in that I do not believe in (positive) discriminatory practices like affirmative action, I don't see that anyone benefits from it. But to say that you are white and not "privileged", well I think you are just clearly not seeing how you have it infinitely better than those people of color. I can't understand how you could be unaware of that.

    And again, what Michelle said was NOT racist in my view, saying that you would like to help an oppressed minority group because they are close to your heart should be applauded, not condemned. We need more minorities of every race giving back to their communities in positive ways.
    See the problem I have with that is IN MY AREA (I am not saying this is the case in all areas, but in my area), I am not privileged. Every morning I ride through the waterfront project area where blacks are out walking their dogs, fishing from their nice new public financed pier, driving high dollar cars with rims (which how can you afford that if you have to live in the housing project?). Then right down the road you have Habitat for Humanity houses that were built, and I swear to God, every single one of the people that live there drive Caddy's or Lincoln's, nice rims, motorcycles in the yard, all while someone else is footing their housing bill. To me that is privileged, not me going to work everyday. It royally burns my ass to have to go to work and pay taxes for people like that. There is not ONE housing project in this area for whites, they are all for blacks...as if white's don't struggle, too.
    Again, I know there are whites that act this way, too. I am not saying this is how all blacks act, I am just saying, in my area this is what is going on.

    All while the Mexican's are working harder than any of us, and getting paid $2.00 an hour.

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    Elite Member greysfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by purple rain View Post
    If they were the most qualified students, they should be the ones admitted.
    And this is where your argument falls apart, if minority students were the most qualified, do you really think they'd be admitted without AA? Do you really think minorities could actively compete for college if it weren't for Brown v Board of Education? And I would be 100% fine if a judge ordered the NBA to be more diverse, so that's a pretty stupid argument as well.

    And Asians are NOT the highest earning racial group in the country, whites are.
    FUCK YOU AND GIVE ME MY GODDAMN VENTI TWO PUMP LIGHT WHIP MOCHA YOU COCKSUCKING WHORE BEFORE I PUNCH YOU IN THE MOUTH. I just get unpleasant in my car. - Deej

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    Elite Member cmmdee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweetie View Post
    All while the Mexican's are working harder than any of us, and getting paid $2.00 an hour.
    This made me lol

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    Elite Member greysfang's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweetie View Post
    See the problem I have with that is IN MY AREA (I am not saying this is the case in all areas, but in my area), I am not privileged. Every morning I ride through the waterfront project area where blacks are out walking their dogs, fishing from their nice new public financed pier, driving high dollar cars with rims (which how can you afford that if you have to live in the housing project?). Then right down the road you have Habitat for Humanity houses that were built, and I swear to God, every single one of the people that live there drive Caddy's or Lincoln's, nice rims, motorcycles in the yard, all while someone else is footing their housing bill. To me that is privileged, not me going to work everyday. It royally burns my ass to have to go to work and pay taxes for people like that. There is not ONE housing project in this area for whites, they are all for blacks...as if white's don't struggle, too.
    Again, I know there are whites that act this way, too. I am not saying this is how all blacks act, I am just saying, in my area this is what is going on.

    Go and apply for one of those housing projects, if you're turned down because you're white, sue the fuck outta them because that is illegal and discriminatory.

    All while the Mexican's are working harder than any of us, and getting paid $2.00 an hour.
    **snort!**
    FUCK YOU AND GIVE ME MY GODDAMN VENTI TWO PUMP LIGHT WHIP MOCHA YOU COCKSUCKING WHORE BEFORE I PUNCH YOU IN THE MOUTH. I just get unpleasant in my car. - Deej

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    Elite Member crumpet's Avatar
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    But, case in point, if one of Obama's daughter's was 17 and pregnant, people would be making a much bigger deal out of it then they are with Palin's daughter. Why? Because Obama is part of a minority group, even though he is half-white. So, in that regards, it's yet another double standard.
    Now this is something that I agree with and have said to many others as well. If one of his girls turned up pregnant it would be evidence of how black people are all irresponsible and promiscuous and lack involved parents (not to mention how the 'anything goes' liberal mindset is causing the moral downfall of our country). But if Bristol Palin or some other right wing 'Christian' type does it, well....the flesh is weak and the Lord forgives all of our sins, we are all born sinners but a baby is always a blessing and she should be applauded for not murdering her unborn child for the sake of convenience. It is an obnoxious double standard and it burns me up.

    That said, I am well aware of the history of oppression in this country and am not in denial about the attitudes that persist. To a certain degree there will always be some people who are bigoted and hateful and if it isn't about race it will be about something else. What bothers me is the attitude that since whites have been the ruling majority for so long that no gripe that a white person has can be considered legitimate. It bothers me that poor, lower class whites who may be on the receiving end of reverse discrimination (or whatever you want to call it) or who is excluded from receivng certain benefits needs to suck it up because they have 'white privilege'. I agree with many of the examples of white privilege that were posted here. However, that doesn't help a poor white kid from coal mining country get into college. His skin color isn't putting food on the table or heat in the furnace and does not equate to a jungle of money trees growing in the backyard. Whiteness is not a golden ticket to success in life and doesn't mean that you have no valid problems or no legitimate gripe about being treated unfairly. Being white means one less thing you have to worry about. There seems to be a common assumption that white=$$$$$ and that perspective doesn't allow for all of the impoverished white people in this country who might need help,too. I believe that that perspective also fuels some extremist beliefs out of sheer frustration if nothing else.
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    Elite Member Sweetie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by greysfang View Post
    Go and apply for one of those housing projects, if you're turned down because you're white, sue the fuck outta them because that is illegal and discriminatory.



    **snort!**
    I would be turned down because I make too much money.
    I guess my employer keeps better records than their bosses do......or either I just shop at the wrong car dealerships.

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    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    And Affirmative Action, in it's present form, needs to be retooled. But until we have a society where people are judged completely by the content of their character, and not by the color of their skin or their gender, then you need programs in place to make sure the scales are kept balanced.
    couldn't agree more.
    and you're very right that these laws were also put in place to help women, also victims of traditional discrimination in the workplace and in education.

    do you think we have things like maternity leaves out of the goodness of employers' (mostly men) hearts? no. laws had to be voted to force companies to not discriminate based on gender, and offer maternity leaves and other measures to help work and family life be more compatible and make the workplace more gender balanced.
    it's the same thing for affirmative action. it's about levelling the playing field and achieving societies where all groups have the same level of opportunity. you can't undo centuries of oppression by writing a new law. you have to take measures to help implement it.
    I'm open to everything. When you start to criticise the times you live in, your time is over. - Karl Lagerfeld

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