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Thread: Has America as a nation jumped the shark?

  1. #46
    Friend of Gossip Rocks! buttmunch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McJag View Post
    I don't think any of you should make plans to attend the funeral yet.
    Our country is made up of immigrants from all of your countries. You have sent us those tired,poor & huddled masses. They have flouished here. Remember WWII, when the Japanese sent a spy here to assess the situation? He attended a football game-for some reason I am recalling Seattle-and reported back "They cannot be beaten. Don't try". Or words to that effect. He was ignored of course. Doubters, replay the Superbowl game. Backs to the wall, we can and will unite. We are generous to a fault, we need course correction a bit. We can't be counted out. If it becomes necessary, we will make shark soup and serve it up with fries. Spiced by some different spice from every single country out there. I have confidence in us.
    I think I hear the Star Spangled Banner playing in the background,now. My opinion.
    Quote Originally Posted by baked_tater View Post
    Foriegners are still immigrating, legal and illegally. Thats not sixty years ago, thats now. More than ever, people still want to live in America. Or they wouldnt come here.
    Sure America takes in immigrants, legal and illegal, but so do most western countries. Immigration (legal and illegal), along with refugees and asylum seekers, is a huge issue in Europe, as big as it is in the States. America is not along by any means in taking in the huddled masses.
    'Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.' Ben Franklin

    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
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  2. #47
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaMama View Post
    Sure, sure, sure, skip over my prior post entirely. Any country that is armed with the capability to blow another country off the map is always going to be relevant in geo-political matters. Therefore, could never have become "jump the shark" foible. Doesn't mean I think we're on the right track, going in the right direction or have our collective priorities and principals anywhere other than up our asses. But since we were specifically talking about the US, I didn't mention other nuke armed countries.
    I read your prior post, I just chose to address your comment about how nukes made the U.S. very relevant. Like I said, other countries have nuclear capabilities, too. You're basing your argument on the point that if a country has nukes, then it can never jump the shark. And that's just not the case. I didn't say, or imply, that you thought we were heading in the right direction, since I had already read your previous post.

    And I pointed out examples about lagging behind other industrialized nations in education, economic issues, infrastructure, exports, climate issues and green technology, which have MORE to do with staying relevant in geo-political matters than just having nukes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManxMouse View Post
    Late 30's, if you must know. My comment is aimed at the fact that millions upon millions of older people are entitlement hogs (skeered that any health care reform might touch their Medicare, skeered that anything done to keep Social Security up and running for the future will touch their piece of the pie--which many paid into only minimally and is actually funded by current workers), yet are socially conservative (against any government initiative that doesn't directly benefit them such as education reform, against gay marriage, anti-abortion, pro-gun, global warming deniers, anti-separation of church and state). Old people are the largest voting group, they get to the polls in force. The AARP is holding this country hostage.
    OK, I see where you're coming from. Actually when the older generation retires or dies there's going to be some jobs opening up. Unfortunately true retirement is a pipe dream for most Americans.

    I'm 40 BTW.

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    Silver Member oltifreakinbaby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buttmunch View Post
    Sure America takes in immigrants, legal and illegal, but so do most western countries. Immigration (legal and illegal), along with refugees and asylum seekers, is a huge issue in Europe, as big as it is in the States. America is not along by any means in taking in the huddled masses.
    No offense, but I immigrated from a poor European country to the US and I can tell you straight up right now, most people there want to live in the US. Not Britain, France, Germany, etc, but the US. People are desperate to get in here, so yeah I'd consider that pretty relevant.

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    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buttmunch View Post
    Sure America takes in immigrants, legal and illegal, but so do most western countries. Immigration (legal and illegal), along with refugees and asylum seekers, is a huge issue in Europe, as big as it is in the States. America is not along by any means in taking in the huddled masses.
    Please come to Texas!
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    Friend of Gossip Rocks! buttmunch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oltifreakinbaby View Post
    No offense, but I immigrated from a poor European country to the US and I can tell you straight up right now, most people there want to live in the US. Not Britain, France, Germany, etc, but the US. People are desperate to get in here, so yeah I'd consider that pretty relevant.
    That's your experience and of course we have to respect that but I don't think you can speak for all immigrants. My time in Europe has been a real eye opener as far as how much distaste there is for America, and that includes among the immigrant community. Immigrants in most Western countries are happy to be away from where ever it was they were getting away from, or at least the majority are. I'm just saying that America hasn't locked up the happy immigrant contests. Everyone is different and that includes immigrants and what they want and where they want to be.
    Last edited by buttmunch; February 10th, 2010 at 04:10 AM.
    'Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.' Ben Franklin

    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
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    I don't see any country (or group of countries) emerging as the next leader anytime in the next two decades or more.

    Europe's worse off then we are. Japan is about to start its third decade. India has growth, but tons of problems. China's growth, while impressive, has come with a great deal of cost (including pollution) and their govt isn't one for innovation. The US still leads in research, despite W's attempts to undo that. Our health care sucks in relative terms, but people are still living longer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManxMouse View Post
    Quite frankly, things would be a lot better and social progress would be a lot easier if the two oldest generations would just die off already.
    Crap, that includes me!! Good to know my life had some smidgen of meaning, so the younger generations, could have more room. I'm sorry but your statement offends me. Let me go down the street and off my parents for you. They worked their asses off for over 40 years. They have paid their dues and secured their retirement without relying totally on Social Security. Your statement implies a person's worth is gauged by their youth. Sad.

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    Elite Member ManxMouse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alysheba View Post
    Crap, that includes me!! Good to know my life had some smidgen of meaning, so the younger generations, could have more room. I'm sorry but your statement offends me. Let me go down the street and off my parents for you. They worked their asses off for over 40 years. They have paid their dues and secured their retirement without relying totally on Social Security. Your statement implies a person's worth is gauged by their youth. Sad.
    Look, I admit it was a gross generalization. What I was talking about is that the voting bloc of older generations is largely obstructionist when it comes to the adjustment of any entitlement program they may draw from, and also when it comes to extending a benefit or even civil rights to any other group. For instance, both health care reform and gay marriage rights would be way easier to pass if not for the vast influence of seniors.
    Santa is an elitist mother fucker -- giving expensive shit to rich kids and nothing to poor kids.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManxMouse View Post
    Look, I admit it was a gross generalization. What I was talking about is that the voting bloc of older generations is largely obstructionist when it comes to the adjustment of any entitlement program they may draw from, and also when it comes to extending a benefit or even civil rights to any other group. For instance, both health care reform and gay marriage rights would be way easier to pass if not for the vast influence of seniors.
    It is about the only 'voting bloc' that I wouldn't berate for it though.

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    For instance, both health care reform and gay marriage rights would be way easier to pass if not for the vast influence of seniors.
    You're right.

    On the flip side, the young (with the exception of '08) don't vote.

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    A*O
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    Voting is mandatory in Australia but it hasn't made any difference to much social or political reform. Personally I think it's a fundamental democratic right NOT to vote but that's another discussion.
    If all the women in this place were laid end to end, I wouldn’t be surprised - Dorothy Parker

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    Quote Originally Posted by ManxMouse View Post
    Look, I admit it was a gross generalization. What I was talking about is that the voting bloc of older generations is largely obstructionist when it comes to the adjustment of any entitlement program they may draw from, and also when it comes to extending a benefit or even civil rights to any other group. For instance, both health care reform and gay marriage rights would be way easier to pass if not for the vast influence of seniors.
    It's not just the older generations that are against "reform" though. There's a lot of neo-conservatism popping up. Most people are for gay rights, so they need to just legalize that already because that's a civil rights issue. But not everybody who's "young" wants health care reform. Actually, a majority of the people I interact with don't like the idea of it. I don't think age has much to do with it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by A*O View Post
    Voting is mandatory in Australia but it hasn't made any difference to much social or political reform. Personally I think it's a fundamental democratic right NOT to vote but that's another discussion.
    I agree. There have been times when I've looked at the field and said 'no way, no one gets my vote'. I know there are some countries where the ballot will give you the option of voting 'nothing' so to speak.
    'Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.' Ben Franklin

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    When I was young I railed against my father's generation, (I was born in 1950) now I'm an older generation and I get it. My parents went through sooo much I had no idea. I went through plenty too. I worked for years and years and now I want to take it easy. I paid plenty for health care, and plenty in taxes. Now I want to reap some of that. My mother died at 57, my father at 62. They were not a drain on society. The reason older people resist change is because they've seen change over and over and know it doesn't usually work. Granted there were some really bad times in my youth, especially if you were the wrong color, the wrong race or the wrong gender. However we don't need to throw the baby out with the bathwater. The older generation had some great ideals also.
    Oh, I offended you with my opinion? You should hear the ones I keep to myself.

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