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Thread: Gaza complicates Barack Obama's policy in Mideast

  1. #106
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    Adam Horowitz
    Posted January 2, 2009 | 10:34 AM (EST)
    Even in Sderot, Israelis Say No to Endless War

    It has been widely acknowledged that Israel began a public relations campaign soon after beginning their bombing campaign over Gaza. As usual, they have had plenty of help.

    One example of this was Alan Dershowitz's article "Israel, Hamas, and moral idiocy" which ran in the Christian Science Monitor on New Year's eve. In a tired tradition, Dershowitz tries to blame the Palestinians for making Israel kill them:
    "The firing of rockets at civilians from densely populated civilian areas is the newest tactic in the war between terrorists who love death and democracies that love life." This is just the latest version of a justification for collective punishment that Zionist luminaries have been offering for decades. Golda Meir articulated this sentiment most famously after the 1967 war: "When peace comes we will perhaps in time be able to forgive the Arabs for killing our sons, but it will be harder for us to forgive them for having forced us to kill their sons."
    The one piece of the Dershowitz article, and the broader pro-war p.r. campaign, that warrants a response is his comments on Sderot. Sderot is a town on the border of Israel and Gaza and the frequent target of missiles from Gaza. They have now been facing rocket fire for eight years. In that time they have faced thousands of rockets and 13 residents have been killed. Sderot is often held up as the reason for the Israeli attacks. Dershowitz explains, "The residents of Sderot were demanding that their nation take action to protect them." He understands this as a demand that Israel obliterate Gaza.

    Like Dershowitz I've been to Sderot: just over a year ago in November, 2007. Like him, I saw the devastating effects of the missiles from Gaza. Even though there had not been a death from these rockets in recent memory when I was there, I was not surprised to find that the missiles had inflicted an incredible mental wound on the residents. But I was surprised to find that although the people of Sderot who I met wanted the missiles to end they understood that militarism would not protect them.

    The people I met with were not calling for war, they were calling for negotiation. They knew that they would be the ones to catch the brunt of an attack on Gaza, not Tel Aviv, not Jerusalem. Even an IDF commander I met told me, off the record, "The Qassams [missiles] are like stones, there is no way to stop them. The only way is negotiation."

    My experience has been affirmed by the people of Sderot itself. Ironically, the Washington Post published a powerful op-ed by Julia Chaitin, a senior lecturer at the Sapir Academic College near Sderot, the same day the Dershowitz article ran. Chaitin wrote in "Darkness in Qassam-Land,"
    But I know the answer to our conflict will not come with this war. We will know peace only when we accept the fact that the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip have every right to lives of dignity. We will know peace only when we recognize that we must negotiate with Hamas, our enemy, even if we are devastated that the Palestinians did not elect a more moderate party to lead them. We will know peace only when our leaders stop considering our lives cheap and expendable, and help us create a beautiful, green Negev, free of fear and despair.
    Even more amazing, residents of Sderot are organizing to try to end the attacks. Read the text of this petition signed by hundreds of Sderot's residents which has been posted at the website jews sans frontieres. From the petition:
    The period of calm changed the lives of the people of Sderot, Ashkelon and the region beyond recognition, allowing all of us to experience again a life that is more normal and sane. The continuation of this calm is essential and critical to the residents of the region from every possible aspect: physical, mental, spiritual and economic.

    Another round of escalation may break our already brittle spirit, and take us all to another round of self-destruction and pointless bloodshed. It is not certain that we will survive. And you must be aware of that, if you indeed care about the residents of this area. We've been through this movie too many years--and results speak for themselves: feeling trapped, abandonment, and hopelessness for us and our children!
    The petition continues:
    On the other side of the border live a million and a half Palestinians under unbearable conditions, and most of them want, like we do, calm and the opportunity of a future for themselves and their families.

    We live in the feeling that you have wasted that period of calm, instead of using it to advance understandings and begin negotiations, as well as for fortifying the houses of residents as promised.

    We call on the Prime Minister and the Defense minister not to listen to the voices of incitement and do everything they can to avoid another round of escalation, to secure the continuation of the calm and to work...towards direct or indirect negotiations with the Palestinian leadership in Gaza in order to reach long term understandings.

    We prefer a cold war without a single rocket to a hot war with dozens of victims and innocent fatalities on both sides.
    We ask you to offer us the possibility of political arrangement and hope and not an endless cycle of blood.
    Clearly not all people in Sderot agree with these views, as has been shown. But it's also clear that Dershowitz and other proponents of the endless war will always use the people of Sderot as the cannon fodder they need in the moment. The residents of Sderot are primarily Mizrahi Jews, poor and working class, who have been settled on the periphery to play exactly this role. As much as Dershowitz might want to fight to the finish, those in the crossfire just want an end to the shooting.

    Adam Horowitz: Even in Sderot, Israelis Say No to Endless War

  2. #107
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    "When peace comes we will perhaps in time be able to forgive the Arabs for killing our sons, but it will be harder for us to forgive them for having forced us to kill their sons."
    Golda Meir had the most ass-backwards logic. I notice there's no mention of wanting forgiveness from the Arabs. This is why neither Israel or the Palestinians are innocent victims in this never-ending war.

  3. #108
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    Sorry but I don't really care for either side and their policies and whatnot. Though this all out ground war is quite disturbing to me, and will only create future anti israeli sentiments. I'm no expert in this area or the politics of the region, but to me it seems like some will never be happy until israel is wiped off the face of the earth. Didn't the palestinians refuse land offered to them by the israelis?

  4. #109
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    GAZA CIVILIANS BEARING BRUNT OF VIOLENCE: AID AGENCIES



    JERUSALEM (AFP) – Civilians in Gaza are bearing the brunt of the violence in the Gaza Strip, where people wounded in fighting are dying because ambulances cannot reach them, humanitarian agencies said on Monday.
    As troops battled militants in Gaza's main city for the first time since Israel unleashed its offensive against the Islamist Hamas movement on December 27, the agencies painted a grim picture of the suffering in the impoverished territory.
    "Wounded people have died while waiting for Palestinian Red Crescent ambulances," ICRC spokeswoman Dorothea Krimitsas said in Geneva.
    The United Nations noted that many of the recent fatalities have been women and children, adding that "the population of Gaza (is) bearing the brunt of the violence.
    In Amman, Jordan's Queen Rania said civilian deaths were not acceptable.
    "Gaza's children, the dead and the barely living, their mothers, their fathers are not acceptable collateral damage, their lives do matter and their loss does count," said the queen, herself of Palestinian origin.
    Some 555 Palestinians have been killed since Israel unleashed its massive offensive. At least a dozen children were among the 50 people killed on Monday, medics said.
    "Civilian casualties and destruction in Gaza are on an unprecedented scale," said Malcolm Smart of human rights watchdog Amnesty International amid mounting international calls for a truce to deliver aid to those in need.
    "We need a humanitarian truce of several days. It's in everybody's interest," visiting French President Nicolas Sarkozy said in Jerusalem.
    Israel insists it is doing its best to avoid civilian casualties and avert a humanitarian crisis as it targets Hamas officials and installations.
    But Amnesty quoted a resident as saying: "We are not safe even in our homes. We have nothing to do with Hamas -- I've been detained and harassed by Hamas -- but the Israeli bombardments are indiscriminate. No one is safe," she said.
    The United Nations said it has become increasing difficult for humanitarian staff to distribute aid or reach casualties.
    "More than a million Gazans still have no electricity or water, and thousands of people have fled their homes for safe shelter," it said in an update of the situation.
    It said essential infrastructure has been destroyed, including electricity, water, waste water, communications and roads, while hospitals can't provide adequate intensive care to the high number of casualties.
    "Although a large quantity of medicines has been supplied by various donors and organisations, humanitarian organisations are now receiving urgent requests for strong pain killers as well as for body bags and bed sheets used for wrapping the dead.
    "There is also an urgent need for more neuro-vascular, orthopaedic and open heart surgeons," the United Nations said.
    The CARE agency warned that the food situation was becoming critical.
    "People do not have money to buy food, and what little food there is in the markets is running out," said Yazdan El-Amawi, CARE's emergency team leader in Gaza.
    "Even if you have money, people are terrified to leave their homes to buy food because of the bombings. If you are outside, you might be mistaken as a target," he said.
    "People are rationing what they eat," said El-Amawi. "I don't know how much longer people can hold out. They are trying to make things last but in a week or less, if the situation continues, if we don't get more food and emergency supplies, people will collapse."


    Gaza civilians bearing brunt of violence: aid agencies - Yahoo! News


    Whats more terrifying is that under a similar article on AOL News, there is a question posed asking if Israel is justified in these latest attacks. 75% of the people polled said YES. THAT is what is truly frightening, is that people can just close their eyes and ignore whats going on.
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  5. #110
    Elite Member january's Avatar
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    AP GAZA REPORTER FINDS HOMETOWN IN RUBBLE



    GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip I live alone in my office. My wife and two young children moved in with her father after our apartment was shattered. The neighborhood mosque, where I have prayed since I was a child, had its roof blown off. All the government buildings on my beat have been obliterated.
    After days of Israeli shelling, the city and life I have known no longer exist.
    Gaza City, with some 400,000 people, stopped supplying water when the fuel ran out for the power station driving the pumps. We listen to battery-run radios for news, even though the outside world watches what's happening to us on television. The Hadi grocery where we once shopped is closed. Food is scarce all over town.
    Three days after Israel began its airstrikes against Hamas militants on Dec. 27, my apartment building was shaken by bombs aimed at a nearby Hamas-run government compound.
    My brother took a picture of the room where my boys, 2-year-old Hikmet and 6-month-old Ahmed, once slept. Their toys were broken, shrapnel had punched through the closet and the bedroom wall had collapsed. I don't know if we will ever go back.
    There are other pictures that haunt me. The Israeli army issued a video of the bombing of the Hamas-run government compound, which it posted on YouTube. In it, I also can see my home being destroyed, and I watch it obsessively.
    Some of my colleagues lost their houses to the shelling as well, and are sleeping on mattresses spread across the floors of an apartment upstairs from The Associated Press bureau.
    On Tuesday, I stood outside my apartment building but didn't dare enter. I was worried the remains of the nearby compound might again be shelled.
    Othman, the owner of the Addar restaurant where my wife and I bought takeaway when we were both working, put up aluminum sheeting over the broken windows to stop looters. On the pavement, phone and power lines were tangled together like twine.
    Driving to central Gaza City, I took the road where Gaza's two main universities are. It was covered with shards of glass, telephone cables, electricity wires and flattened cars. This road was once crowded with students, taxis and street vendors.
    The Mazaj coffee shop on Omar Mukhtar street, Gaza's main thoroughfare, was shuttered. It was popular with wealthy university students and foreigners working for nonprofit agencies because it served really good Guatemalan coffee rumored to have been smuggled in through the same tunnels under the Egyptian border the militants used to bring in weapons.
    Al Dera, a beautiful hotel on the Mediterranean shore, was a place where young men and women smoked water pipes and flirted, and where families went for dinner on Thursdays.
    Those days are gone now.
    On Tuesday, the only shop I found open was the Shifa pharmacy run by my friend Eyad Sayegh. He's an Orthodox Christian, and I stopped to wish him a Merry Christmas Eastern churches celebrate Christmas on Wednesday.
    Eyad told me he forgot it was Christmas.
    All the landmark buildings I covered as a reporter have vanished.
    The colonial-era Seraya was the main security compound for the succession of Gaza's rulers the British, Egyptians, Israelis, the Palestinian Authority and then the rival Palestinians of Hamas.
    We used to fear the Seraya, where the central jail was. Now it's rubble.
    The Al Shuhada mosque on the eastern corner of the compound, where I prayed every day, was one of the few in Gaza with good air conditioning. A local philanthropist who liked Moroccan architecture redecorated the interior with intricate wooden arabesques and Quranic verses etched on the roof. The roof caved in when the Israelis bombed the jail next door.
    Of the presidential office overlooking the sea, only a few walls remain. For many Gazans it was a symbol of our statehood, even though President Mahmoud Abbas, who also heads the Fatah movement, hasn't been there since Hamas seized control of the territory in June 2007.
    Someone planted a Palestinian flag on the building's remains. The huge gate at the western entrance still stands, giving an illusion of something big behind it.
    And across the city, the Parliament house is half destroyed. It used to tower above the Unknown Soldier park and the shops that lined downtown Omar Mukhtar Street.
    On Jala Street, one of Gaza's main roads, I saw about 30 boys around a leaky irrigation tap on a traffic island. They were clutching empty soft drink bottles and jerry cans, trying to fill them with water.
    Samir, who is 9, told me his family has no water at home and he wanted to bring enough for a bath because he and his brother smell.
    That's a problem for most people in Gaza right now.
    In my father-in-law's building, residents throw out bags of spoiled food. With no power, refrigerators don't run and fresh food quickly rots.
    There were few cars on the roads, and most of those were media cars, ambulances and vehicles packed with civilians. Some looked like they were fleeing, with mattresses tied to the roofs, but who knows where they can go.
    Israeli helicopters flew overhead. I heard blasts in the distance. The roads were ripped apart by explosives.
    I drove into downtown Gaza, trying to prove to myself I can still do something I have done so often before drive through my city.
    I reached the Catholic Latin Patriarchate School I attended, where my late father also an AP correspondent used to bring me every day. The building was undamaged.
    I stood in front of it, wondering if I will ever be able to walk my children to this school.



    AP Gaza reporter finds hometown in rubble - Yahoo! News



    Great video at link: ABC News, The Children of Gaza
    Women ain't gonna let a thing like sense fuck up their argument. - Chris Rock

  6. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by january View Post
    I agree completely, it only contributes more to the problem. How can anyone in the Arab world take us seriously when we say we want to achieve peace, while giving arms and military aid to Israel?

    I just talked to my friend who is in Israel and she said the people that she has talked to are absolutely disgusted by their government for whats happening in Gaza. Gaza will be a graveyard by the time this is through, its trapped residents have nowhere to go. Not to mention that Israelis are concerned for their own sons and daughters who are going to fight in an unjust war.
    Jan, USA give aid to Israel from her interest. Israel thankfull for USA-Israel relationship but there is politics reasons for USA to do that
    exactly like there are politics reasons for Iran to help Hizballa and Hamas.

    About the Arab world, do you see them help the Gaza? i dont talk about demonstrations or politics that talk on the media, i talk about real help. nobody do that bc nobody want to help the Hamas except for Iran.

    Hamas is NOT the palestinians legitimate leaders the Fatah is, but the Hamas with Iran weapons and money take over Gaza the palestinian who live in the west bank with the Fatah leaders have no war with us or we with them, we walking step by step and ending the fights and how come we abule to do that? bc the Fatah is not controling by Iran the big diff.

    I dont know who is the friends that told you about Israel pp but i can tell you one thing yes we care for our children but this is the FIRST time in Israel (and i was born here) that there is a 100% understanding for the government actions. We are a democracy so there will be always some pp who think diff they can do that but this time there are less then 1%, even the Israeli-Arab and the Arab world fed up with hamas they do nothing to help Gaza not bc the "love" Israel its bc they "hate" the Hamas plus they dont want Iran to control the area.

    Quote Originally Posted by Mutlu View Post
    Its Hamas's fault.Hamas kept sending rockets into Israel.Do people really think that Hamas cares about its people?

    That the big problem that he dosent care. Hamas put weapons in kindergarten, how many pp will agree to sent there kids the kindergarten when they know there is weapons there? ?

    The isreali armi give 15 minutes warning before he operative and the Hamas instead of sending the pp (and kids) to seltter he send his pp and leaders.

    Egypt and more ask the Hamas to let the wounded Gaza pp to came to there hospital and he refuse to do that.

  7. #112
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    Default Noa writes open letter to Gazans

    Noa writes open letter to Gazans

    Internationally renowned Israeli singer Noa writes moving letter appealing to Palestinians in Gaza and everywhere, calling for eradication of common enemy: Fanaticism
    Ynet

    Internationally renowned Israeli singer Noa has written an open letter to Palestinians in Gaza and everywhere. The letter was published on the Israel-based iPeace (http://www.ipeace.me/) website, an international social network which has more than 14,000 members from 180 countries.


    Dear Palestinian brothers,


    It is with a heavy heart I write to you today. Gaza is burning. The border with Israel is under fire. Children on both sides of the fence are terrified, traumatized for life, wounded in body and soul. Life!! Life is lost. Blood flows! Pain and tears and anguish abound.


    How familiar it all is, my brothers? How well we know these images, this fear clutching our throats, hope slipping away from our hearts?


    A new year has begun. I am sitting here near my computer in the dark night, in my home by the sea. This sea that is ours, our Mediterranean sea, our culture, we the people of wandering, we the homeless, the homesick, we the fighters ,the builders, the survivors, our dreams like waves and tide, pulled by the moon and stars to eternity.


    Since that fateful day in 1994 when Rabin was murdered a few feet from me, since that awful moment, I have dedicated much of my public life to singing and speaking for peace.


    I have seen the peace process rise and fall and rise like the breast of a woman breathing in the night. I have seen opportunities missed, so many missed, so many chances, so much ignorance and stubbornness and bullheadedness, so much beauty trampled under the heavy boot of pride.


    I have sung and I have spoken, I have argued and I have embraced, I have been moved to tears so many times, I have made the most unlikely friends….friends I would give my right arm for, friends I would run across the border under fire to protect.


    And today, today I say this; we have one joint enemy, one awful joint enemy and we must all work together to eradicate it! That enemy is fanaticism my friends. That enemy is extremism in all its ugly reincarnations and manifestations.

    That enemy is all men who put “god” above life, who claim "god” as their sword and shield, who claim “god” is on THEIR side. Jews, Muslims, Christians, all share this black streak. All have fallen to this destructive, horrible fanaticism at some point in their histories and the results have been devastating.


    Noa. Inshallah, we will again have an opportunity (Photo: Ronen Ackerman)

    I have often spoken out against fanaticism in my country, for I find it repulsive and unbearable. In government, in settlements, in synagogues, I am passionately against it. I have risked my career and my wellbeing for this belief.


    Now I see the ugly head of fanaticism, I see it large and horrid, I see its black eyes and spine-chilling smile, I see blood on its hands and I know one of its many names :Hamas.


    You know this too, my brothers. You know this ugly monster. You know it is raping your women and raping the minds of your children. You know it is educating to hatred and death.


    You know it is chauvinistic and violent, greedy and selfish, it feeds on your blood and screams out Allah’s name on vain, it hides like a thief, uses the innocent as human shields, uses your mosques as arsenals, lies and cheats, uses YOU, tortures you, holds you hostage!!


    I know this is true my brothers!! I know YOU know the truth!! And I know you cannot say it for fear of life so I will say it for you!! I fear nothing!!


    I am privileged to live in a democracy where women are not objects but presidents, where a singer can say and do as she pleases! I know you do not have this privilege (yet…but you will, inshallah, you will…)


    I know you are SICK of being held hostage by this demon, this ugly beast, not in Gaza, not in Iran or Iraq or Afghanistan, not anywhere!!! You are a people destined to flourish in peace! Your majestic history is overflowing with creativity, literature science and music, endless contributions to humanity, not crippling, torturing fanaticism, yelling Jihad and Shahid!


    I see you sometimes, out in the streets, demonstrating with the monsters, yelling ‘death to the Jews, death to Israel!! But I don’t believe you! I know where your heart is! It is just where mine is, with my children, with the earth, with the heavens, with music, with HOPE!! You want nothing of this but you have no choice! I see through your veil of fear my brothers, through your burka! I embrace your hopes for they are mine!


    My country has made many many mistakes over the years, I have watched it miss so many opportunities, and as a citizen of this country I am the first to admit it and criticize its foolery. I demonstrate, I vote, I speak out, I sing loud and clear.


    But, now, today, I know that deep in your hearts YOU WISH for the demise of this beast called Hamas who has terrorized and murdered you, who has turned Gaza into a trash heap of poverty, disease and misery. Who in the name of "allah” has sacrificed you on the bloody alter of pride and greed.


    My brothers, I cry for you. I cry for us too, yes, I cry for my fellow countrymen suffering the bombs in the south and north and everywhere, I cry for the kidnapped soldiers and the murdered ones, for their bereft families, for the innocence lost forever, but I cry especially painfully for you for I know your suffering, I feel you, I feel you!!


    I can only wish for you that Israel will do the job we all know needs to be done, and finally RID YOU of this cancer, this virus, this monster called fanaticism, today, called Hamas. And that these killers will find what little compassion may still exist in their hearts and STOP using you and your children as human shields for their cowardice and crimes.



    And then… then, maybe, Inshallah, we will again have an opportunity... we will again pick up our broken bodies and souls and walk slowly towards each other, reach out a tired hand, look into eyes filled with tears and with a choked voice say: “Shalom. Salam. Enough. Enough my brother ….


    you want some coffee? Here, sit for a while…let's talk….we know the words, we know the songs, we know the road….


    Shalom……

    Salam……

    With a broken heart still yearning to love,

    Your friend,
    Noa

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...651784,00.html

  8. #113
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    Setting aside the more recent outrages carried out by BOTH sides, I can't see this situation being resolved unless people can move on from the ancient tribal, cultural and religious hatreds that have been simmering in that region for centuries. They managed it in Northern Ireland - I hope that Israel and Palestine (who both have valid points of view) can come to a similar resolution of their differences but so far I don't see much evidence that either side is willing to do it.
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  9. #114
    Elite Member january's Avatar
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    Nobody argues the fact that Hamas are assholes, they are. The Palestinian "brothers" are simply a means to an end for them, they are more than willing to sacrifice others for their own cause. But what we have here is a disproportionate number of Palestinian civilian casualties. 350 innocent civilian Palestinians have died, 3000 are seriously wounded, and 130 PALESTINIAN CHILDREN HAVE DIED. Is that adequate collateral damage? 3 Israeli civilians have died. Every government has the civil responsibility to make sure that the civilian loss of life is kept at an absolute minimum, and to pursue solely combatants. If they don't, this is classified as WAR CRIMES. What we have seen over and over again is a disregard by Israel to protect civilian casualties. Why do you think that Israel has faced international condemnation, with the exception of America? What happened a few days ago at the UN school? How many children died of artillery fire at what was supposedly a place of shelter? Its nice that you love your government, but don't you question why so many children are dying in a ground assault? Its quite simple that the people of Gaza are pinned in and can't go anywhere and are being assaulted now by ground operations with no place to flee. Its obvious this would amount to a huge amount of civilian casualties, which is why so many people questioned why Israel would ever start ground combat missions in the first place. There is no place for these people to go. What you see in other ground wars are people fleeing over the borders to other countries or even towns, not so here, there is no such option. People are starving and without water, their food has spoiled because there is no refrigeration, it is cold outside and people have no heat. The hospitals are overflowing and there are no places to put the dead until they can be properly buried. It is a humanitarian crisis of epic proportions. Would you say that this is a great operation if it was Israeli children that littered bloodstained grounds? Today UN aid relief was let in by Israel for 3 HOURS before being forced out. No foreign media is even being allowed in without special access, I'm curious why that is. Now I ask you, what in the hell can you do in a city the size of Gaza for three hours to make sure everyone is taken proper care of, that civilians have proper medical care and supplies? And what good is them telling people "hey we're going to bomb here" if these people have no place to go and are possibly even already disabled from moving? Thats like moving everyone into a tight space and saying, "hey just to be nice, we're letting you know that we're going to be bombing here in fifteen minutes." Wow, thanks for the heads up, now I guess I can start praying! Putting politics and religion aside, its absolutely mind-blowing that someone can disregard the fact that innocent civilians of any race, creed, or religion are dying en masse because thats somehow justified. All Israel has done with this offensive is stirred up even more anti-Israel sentiment and I am curious how this plays out if Lebanon gets involved as well. And as far as Arab people helping the people of Gaza, I'm curious how in the hell they are to do that. I mean, there hands are tied pretty tight as well. Mubarak faces the wrath of his people by denying Gaza and siding with Israel, but he does so because if he didn't have a truce with Israel he knows it would bring a death sentence on his own people. The simple fact is that no one wants to go against Israel and the United States because they have all the power. Talk about an abuse of power. The simple fact remains that Israel can do whatever it wants, when it wants, and defy every UN resolution that has been laid out for them, because they will never be brought to task. America makes sure of that.
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    Quote Originally Posted by A*O View Post
    Setting aside the more recent outrages carried out by BOTH sides, I can't see this situation being resolved unless people can move on from the ancient tribal, cultural and religious hatreds that have been simmering in that region for centuries. They managed it in Northern Ireland - I hope that Israel and Palestine (who both have valid points of view) can come to a similar resolution of their differences but so far I don't see much evidence that either side is willing to do it.

    The thing is that there is no 2 sides here there are 3 sides.

    Israel and the palestinians who live in the west bank with the Fatha goverment working on the problems and moving on from the fight and the wars. The 3 side is Iran who is the mother and father of the Hamas and the one who order them and help them when they kill Fatah leadres when they military coup over Gaza.

    So there is 2 "Palestine" groups one that have a democracy goverment and work with Israel to make everyone life better and the one who control by Iran and care,think and fight for Iran intrests and not for the Palestinias.

    When Israel fight in Gaza she fight agains Iran when she talk and work with the Fatha she do that with the Palestine.

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    So if the problem is Iran why doesn't Israel attack them directly? Oh yes, Iran has nuclear weapons and is waiting for any excuse to use them. The whole region is a volatile tinderbox of old scores to settle, religious and historical conflicts and sheer bloody minded intransigence on all sides I don't foresee a truly peaceful resolution any time soon.
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  12. #117
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    I like my solution.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  13. #118
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    I think this situation is just going to get much worse before it gets better- and I concur with Grimm about getting rid of the extremists on both sides but instead of removing the innocent get all the nuts and plop onto desert island and let them battle it out there.

    Personally I think most arab leaders like to use the Palestinians as an issue for their own issues with the West. Its something they can fall back on and to use as a propaganda football on their own countries.
    I think last year's war with Lebanon was a turning point with Israel's standing international standing. I noticed that alot more people/countries were actually noticing the issues- This conflict will just exacerbate it but there certainly wont be a clear winner at all - just more innocent civillian deaths on both sides because of the political religious agendas of parties which will use this as a proxy war like the Lebanon war

  14. #119
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    I'm so sick of this unnecessary violence around the world. I'm so sick of those organizations like Hamas or Al-Qaida who blame the west for their problems yet they have a shit load of money going around in their circles. Money that they spent on guns and bombs to target, not only other countries, but their own countries as well. All the money that they could actually use to help each other. And I'm so sick of those people who allow themselves to be manipulated in those organizations when in fact without them they're country would be in such a better place. And I hate also these religious lunatics who justify killing others as the order of Allah or God when in fact I've never heard that mentioned in Koran or bible or whatever. Just the opposite.

    I read from some news paper that now Al-Qaida is encouraging everyone to attack west because of this war in Gaza. Like it's our fault that those newbs can't use their heads and do something worthwhile for once.

    And I for one think that the attack to Gaza is unacceptable. Israel should have worked with Palestisians together to get rid of Hamas. This will only cause hatred against Israel among palestisians and hence, Hamas will get only stronger.

  15. #120
    Elite Member Fluffy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marie View Post
    Jan, USA give aid to Israel from her interest. Israel thankfull for USA-Israel relationship but there is politics reasons for USA to do that exactly like there are politics reasons for Iran to help Hizballa and Hamas.
    Marie, I think you underestimate the political reasons for the US giving aid to Israel. There are a LOT of Americans who feel the US would be better off not giving Israel so much support and vetoing UN Security Council resolutions in their favor. The US would be in a better place politically if it lessened its always in favor of Israel policies.

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