Page 3 of 15 FirstFirst 123456713 ... LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 212

Thread: Gaza complicates Barack Obama's policy in Mideast

  1. #31
    Elite Member january's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    7,255

    Default

    I agree that the Palestinians have been caught in the crossfire. I think that some people in the Middle East believe that Hamas is a necessary evil, and if they ceased to exist, so would Palestine. There is a school of thought that without Hamas, the Palestinians would be exterminated at a faster rate than what has already occurred. I'm not saying its right, I'm just saying that this is why some people continue to fund Hamas, as a necessary evil. Others just want to see the extermination of Israel as a state, plain and simple.
    Women ain't gonna let a thing like sense fuck up their argument. - Chris Rock

  2. #32
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Acerbia
    Posts
    33,488

    Default

    ^^ Yes, that why this whole thing is clusterfuck that it is. You nailed it.

    If the people that want the extermination of Israel could be pulled out of this, there could be a resolution. Most people- both Palestinian and Israeli- just want to live, raise their families, etc. It's the extremists on both sides who keep this going.
    It's no longer a dog whistle, it's a fucking trombone


    All of God's children are not beautiful. Most of God's children are, in fact, barely presentable.


    If I wanted the government in my womb I'd fuck a Senator

  3. #33
    Elite Member january's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    7,255

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    ^^ Yes, that why this whole thing is clusterfuck that it is. You nailed it.

    If the people that want the extermination of Israel could be pulled out of this, there could be a resolution. Most people- both Palestinian and Israeli- just want to live, raise their families, etc. It's the extremists on both sides who keep this going.
    Thats a bit simplistic in my mind, though. Thats operating under the assumption that Israel is always reactionary and defensive. Not true. Israel has often been the aggressor, particularly in the West Bank. What I've noticed is that they look for the slightest aggression, such as one rocket, to cast a full scale war with hundreds of innocent civilians killed, so they can have some sort of excuse as to their behavior. What we've seen in Palestine, whether its recognized or not, has been a slow genocide. And if you look at the photo that Sasha posted of the Palestinian loss of land in the last 50 years, its clear that certain forces within Israel does profit from the extermination of the Palestinians. So its fucked up from both sides. The difference is, like I said, that Israel has all of the power (backed by the US) and the military might, and uses them to their cruel advantage.
    Women ain't gonna let a thing like sense fuck up their argument. - Chris Rock

  4. #34
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Acerbia
    Posts
    33,488

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by january View Post
    Thats a bit simplistic in my mind, though. Thats operating under the assumption that Israel is always reactionary and defensive. Not true. Israel has often been the aggressor, particularly in the West Bank. What I've noticed is that they look for the slightest aggression, such as one rocket, to cast a full scale war with hundreds of innocent civilians killed, so they can have some sort of excuse as to their behavior. What we've seen in Palestine, whether its recognized or not, has been a slow genocide. And if you look at the photo that Sasha posted of the Palestinian loss of land in the last 50 years, its clear that certain forces within Israel does profit from the extermination of the Palestinians. So its fucked up from both sides. The difference is, like I said, that Israel has all of the power (backed by the US) and the military might, and uses them to their cruel advantage.
    Understood. That's not how I meant it- to be overly simplistic, but sometimes I cut my posts short- I do understand the complexities. I am aware that Israel is not always defending itself- I've been to Lebanon (mr. witch is part Lebanese). The hard line right wing Israelis are just as much to blame. I did say that in the last line of my post, that both sides extremists are to blame.

    The real solution is for Israel to be willing to accept an independent Palestinian state in return for Arab acceptance of Israel. But that's just not going to happen.

    From 1948 to 1967, Egypt ruled Gaza, Syria ruled the Golan Heights, while Jordan ruled the West Bank. They could have set up independent Arab-Palestinian states in any or all of those territories, but they didn't even consider it. Instead, in 1967 they used the Golan Heights, Gaza and the West bank to launch a war with Israel, which is how Israel came into possession of those territories in the first place.

    Israel is responsible for bringing about its own problems. The Arabs in the West Bank and Gaza Strip were packed and ready to leave following their 1967 defeat. General Moshe Dayan persuaded them to stay

    The occupied territories are a result of the UN attempting to reward the Arabs for invading Israel and were re-captured by Israel as a result of the Arab invasion by Jordan, Egypt, Syria, Saudi Arabia, Iraq, Yemen and Lebanon. There was no Palestinian state mentioned or recognized, even by the Arabs.

    So even the UN bears part of the blame.....what a surprise, the UN adding fuel to a fire instead of helping.


    .....and posts like that are why I cut them short sometimes. i also find that in talking the nuances come through, but when I post, not so much.
    Last edited by witchcurlgirl; December 31st, 2008 at 12:01 AM.
    It's no longer a dog whistle, it's a fucking trombone


    All of God's children are not beautiful. Most of God's children are, in fact, barely presentable.


    If I wanted the government in my womb I'd fuck a Senator

  5. #35
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In WhoreLand fucking your MOM
    Posts
    55,372

    Default

    a friend in florida got attacked by pro palestinian protesters as he drive down the street..

    "They were on either side of the street. They ran out into the street to attack vehicles that slowed down to read their signs. Their signs said things like "Israel is the real terrorist." and "Bring peace to Gaza."

    apparently they knocked out a window, and dented the shit out of his truck, and he didn't even do anything.. he was just driving down the street.

    Way to get your message across, retards.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  6. #36
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Acerbia
    Posts
    33,488

    Default

    ^^ Peace protesters assaulting people is funny. God, I love irony.
    It's no longer a dog whistle, it's a fucking trombone


    All of God's children are not beautiful. Most of God's children are, in fact, barely presentable.


    If I wanted the government in my womb I'd fuck a Senator

  7. #37
    Elite Member january's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    7,255

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    .....and posts like that are why I cut them short sometimes. i also find that in talking the nuances come through, but when I post, not so much.
    I didn't mean to sound condescending either, so I hope thats not the way I came across. I do agree with you.
    Women ain't gonna let a thing like sense fuck up their argument. - Chris Rock

  8. #38
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Acerbia
    Posts
    33,488

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by january View Post
    I didn't mean to sound condescending either, so I hope thats not the way I came across. I do agree with you.
    Not at all.....I hope I don't sound defensive...Like I say, the nuances sometimes are hard to hear in posts.
    It's no longer a dog whistle, it's a fucking trombone


    All of God's children are not beautiful. Most of God's children are, in fact, barely presentable.


    If I wanted the government in my womb I'd fuck a Senator

  9. #39
    Elite Member january's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    7,255

    Default

    I just can't imagine living like this, knowing that there is no asylum anywhere, no place to flee that is safe.

    GAZANS UNSURE WHERE TO FLEE VIOLENCE

    GAZA CITY, Gaza Strip Ė In four days of Israeli airstrikes, Rasha Khaldeh has already fled twice.
    First she left her home, fearing Israeli warplanes would target her Hamas neighbors, only to be forced from her uncle's house when it began to sway during nearby shelling.
    Borders to the tiny territory are closed, and Gazans don't know where to turn for refuge.
    Hemmed in, Khaldeh, a secular university student, resorted to Muslim prayers and lowered the ring of her cell phone, a move to help her identify the approach of Israeli pilotless drones.
    The strikes have killed more than 370 people, including at least 60 civilians, according to a U.N. tally. Most bombs hit their intended target, but the damage spreads to surrounding areas.
    Borders with Egypt and Israel have been sealed for the most part since the militant group Hamas seized power of Gaza in June last year, confining 1.4 million residents in the coastal territory, 25 miles long and six to nine miles wide.
    Even those who managed to flee to Egypt during a border breach on Sunday were returned to the coastal territory.
    "Asylum (is) being totally denied to Gaza's population. They have to stay in this tiny, dangerous place," said Karen Abu Zayd, of the U.N. aid agency for Palestinian refugees.
    On the Israeli side of the border, attacks by Hamas have killed four people since the weekend, and sent many more running for bomb shelters ó some of them in cities under threat of attack for the first time, as the range of the rockets grows.
    "It's very scary," said Yaacov Pardida, a 55-year-old resident of Ashdod, southern Israel's largest city, which was hit Monday. "I never imagined that this could happen, that they could reach us here."
    Israel has warned Gazans of air strikes through leaflet drops ó including one Tuesday that said the network of underground tunnels linking Gaza with Egypt, some used to smuggle weapons, would be bombed. And they have broadcast radio announcements telling residents to flee their homes if they are hiding weapons or militants.
    But many Gazans do not know what their neighbors are hiding, and in crowded communities missile strikes can inflict damage beyond their intended targets. So, residents are left to second-guess the Israeli military.
    Khaldeh, 22, fled with her family from their central Gaza Strip home late Sunday after Israel began striking the homes of Hamas militants. Her neighbors are local Hamas field leaders, and the family feared Israel would target the nearby home, putting them at risk.
    They sped to a relative's apartment in a Gaza City high-rise ó but were only safe for two days. Early Tuesday, Israeli aircraft pounded nearby Hamas government buildings, causing the apartment building to sway wildly. Fearing it would collapse, the family went back to their home in central Gaza.
    "I don't know what's safe anymore," said Khaldeh, who keeps a tiny Muslim holy book, the Quran, encased in a gold box on a necklace, hoping it will keep her safe.
    Some Gazans believe the key to their safety is staying in apartments next to sand dunes, which they believe will absorb blast waves from nearby explosions.
    While other Gazans have taken up new rituals to help ease their concerns.
    Anis Mansour, 22, who lives in the town of Rafah near the Egyptian border, briefly mumbles a prayer for his safe return every time he leaves his house.
    Omar Azayzeh, a 34-year-old medic, works extra hours hoping that by helping save others he'll shield his family from harm. His wife, meanwhile, keeps their apartment windows open in an effort to avoid glass shattering near their three young children.
    Azayzeh lives in a compound with his extended family about 200 feet from a Hamas-run medical center in the central Gaza town of Deir al-Balah. After Israel bombed the Hamas-run Islamic University in Gaza City on Sunday, Azayzeh worried the center would also become a target.
    His initial reaction was to send his family to his sister's house, farther away. Then he realized she lived next to another prime target ó a Hamas-run police station.
    Abu Zayd, the U.N. official, said the agency is preparing to turn U.N.-run schools in Gaza into shelters. Already, 200 residents slept at a U.N. school close to Gaza's border with Egypt on Sunday after Israel bombed nearby tunnels.
    She said the U.N. had informed Israeli officials of their locations and did not expect them to be targeted.
    But residents aren't so confident. "They have shelled mosques, all sorts of places. We can't distance any possibility," Azayzeh said.




    Gazans unsure where to flee violence - Yahoo! News
    Women ain't gonna let a thing like sense fuck up their argument. - Chris Rock

  10. #40
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Acerbia
    Posts
    33,488

    Default

    ARAB WORLD SHOWS ANGER AT EGYPT OVER GAZA


    CAIRO, Egypt -- The Israeli bombing campaign in the Gaza Strip has unleashed outrage across the Middle East _ but the anger is being vented as much against Egypt as it is at Israel.

    Protesters have attacked Egyptian embassies, accusing Cairo of helping Israel's longtime blockade of the territory and even giving a green light for the offensive _ a sign of the gulf between an Arab public and some U.S.-allied governments that dislike Gaza's Hamas rulers.

    Demonstrators broke into the Egyptian consulate in the Yemeni city of Aden on Tuesday, trashing the interior, throwing computers out windows and burning the Egyptian flag on the roof. More than 500 protesters massed outside Egypt's embassy in Syria, as others did days earlier in Lebanon.

    During a demonstration in the Lebanese city of Sidon this week, people chanted slogans denouncing Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak as "a pig" and a "collaborator" with Israel.

    Mubarak, whose nation is one of only two Arab states to have peace treaties with Israel, on Tuesday accused his critics of seeking "political profit" from the suffering of Palestinians in Gaza.

    His government vehemently denied backing Israel's attack. And the foreign minister, Ahmed Aboul Gheit, announced that Egypt was working with Turkey, which has strong ties with Israel, on an initiative to stop the offensive, restore a truce and open Gaza's borders under international supervision.

    Egypt already had angered many Arabs by largely closing its Rafah border crossing into Gaza since the Islamic militants of Hamas violently took over the territory in 2007. Rafah is the sole access to Gaza that does not go through Israel, which has imposed a suffocating economic blockade on the coastal strip.

    Embarrassing for Egyptian officials, Mubarak met with Israeli Foreign Minister Tzipi Livni only a day before Israel launched its assault, and the foreign minister _ though he urged Israel to show restraint _ was photographed smiling and shaking hands with her at a news conference.

    Now, with television across the region showing the destruction and death in Gaza, Hamas and the Lebanese militant group Hezbollah _ both allies of Syria and Iran _ are stoking the anger against Egypt by accusing it of giving an OK to Israel to end Hamas rule in Gaza.
    "We do not accept that the attack on Gaza be announced from the heart of Cairo," Mohammed Nazzal, a Hamas senior leader, shouted on Al-Arabiya television Sunday, referring to the Livni visit.

    Hezbollah leader Hassan Nasrallah charged that Egypt's government was "taking part in the crime" against Palestinians and called on Egyptians to rise up and force the Rafah crossing open.

    The anger could severely damage the key role Egypt has played as a mediator between Hamas on one side and Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and Israel on the other.

    Egypt has been in a tough position because of Hamas's control of Gaza.

    It worries Hamas rule is boosting Iran's influence in the region and could fuel Islamic militancy on its own soil. And it is under pressure from Israel, Abbas and the U.S. not to make any concessions that would bolster Hamas.

    Yet, Egypt's leaders don't want to be seen as fueling a humanitarian crisis in Gaza. Egyptian television gave heavy coverage to several truckloads of medical and other supplies that Egypt sent in through Rafah and 36 wounded Palestinians who were brought out to Egyptian hospitals.

    But on Tuesday, Mubarak insisted Egypt would not fully open Rafah unless Abbas' Palestinian Authority controls the crossing and European monitors required under a 2005 agreement are present. Otherwise, he said, opening the crossing would "deepen the breach" between Hamas and Abbas, who Egypt's government calls the legitimate leader of the Palestinians.

    Aboul Gheit, the foreign minister, initially seemed to blame Hamas for provoking the Israeli offensive, saying soon after it began Saturday that "those who didn't listen" to warnings carry the responsibility.
    Such talk put Egypt in the uncomfortable position of echoing the arguments of Israel, which says it acted to halt Hamas rocket attacks on southern Israeli towns. Since then, Egypt has been more vocal in its calls for Israel to stop the bombardment without conditions.

    On Tuesday, Aboul Gheit denied that Egypt did not do enough to prevent the Israeli offensive, saying Mubarak warned Livni not to attack Gaza "because it will have repercussions on the region."
    But the clamor over Gaza has underlined an increasing divide in the Middle East that pits pro-Western countries like Egypt, Jordan and Saudi Arabia against Syria and Iran and their allied militant groups, Hamas and Hezbollah.

    In an unusually vocal criticism for an Egyptian politician, Abdullah Kamal, a member of Egypt's ruling party, denounced Hamas on Monday as a pawn of Iran, saying Iran and Syria are trying to make "Iran as the leader of the region through its militias, whether Hezbollah or Hamas."

    Arab World Furious With Egypt Over Gaza
    It's no longer a dog whistle, it's a fucking trombone


    All of God's children are not beautiful. Most of God's children are, in fact, barely presentable.


    If I wanted the government in my womb I'd fuck a Senator

  11. #41
    Elite Member yanna's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2006
    Posts
    9,774

    Default

    I saw protesters in New York but they weren't violent at all. They were carrying signs and yelling freedom to Palestine. The weird thing is that they were segregated. There was a group of guys and another group of women, protesting separately. They couldn't be more than 10 people in each group so that wasn't very smart.

  12. #42
    Elite Member january's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Posts
    7,255

    Default

    The French proposed a 2 day ceasefire so they could get humanitarian supplies into Gaza. Israel refused. They have now organized their military for ground combat. Between 20-25% of the dead are women and children, according to the U.N., with at least 60 civilian casualties (this will go up dramatically once they are able to conclusively gain stats). Two medics were killed today when an Israeli missile hit their ambulance. Egypt refuses to open its borders, the Gazans are without food, water, fuel, or medical supplies. The few Gazans who have managed to make it to Egypt have been sent back. Israel just bombed its fifth mosque, stating they believed that Hamas was using them as command centers - guess we'll never know for sure. 3 civilians have died in Israel.

    There were protests here as well, very organized and well done, I wish I could have attended.
    Women ain't gonna let a thing like sense fuck up their argument. - Chris Rock

  13. #43
    Elite Member Cali's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2006
    Location
    citizen of the world
    Posts
    5,444

    Default

    Sorting out all the alliances and loyalties in all this is confusing and interesting. There are a million ways that this could flame up into a massive Middle East war - its quite scary. That's always my worry when Israel and Palestine go at it.

  14. #44
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Acerbia
    Posts
    33,488

    Default

    GAZA ROCKETS PUT ISRAELI NUCLEAR PLANT IN BATTLE ZONE

    SENIOR HAMAS OFFICIAL KILLED

    There were growing fears in Israel last night that Hamas missiles could threaten its top-secret nuclear facility at Dimona.

    Rocket attacks from Gaza have forced Israelis to flee in ever greater numbers and military chiefs have been shaken by the size and sophistication of the militant groupís arsenal.

    In Beersheba, until a few days ago a sleepy desert town in southern Israel, there is little sign of the 186,000 inhabitants. Schools are closed and the streets of shuttered shops echo with the howl of sirens warning of incoming rockets.

    Israeli planes, meanwhile, began a new stage yesterday in their offensive on Gaza, killing Nizar Rayyan, a senior Hamas official. The one-tonne bomb in Jabaliya is also understood to have killed two of his four wives and four of his twelve children. More than 400 Palestinians have been killed in the six days of Israeli attacks.

    Despite a diplomatic mission by Tzipi Livni, the Israeli Foreign Minister, to Paris, the Israeli army continued to muster thousands of troops and scores of tanks along Gazaís border for a possible ground offensive. Israelís airstrikes are designed to blunt Hamasís capacity to fire its new Grad missiles deep into its territory. The weapons are smuggled in through tunnels and by sea, replacing homemade Qassam rockets.

    Israeli officials say that Hamas has also acquired dozens of Iranian-made Fajr-3 missiles with an even longer range. Many fear that as the group acquires ever more sophisticated weaponry it is only a matter of time before the nuclear installation at Dimona, 20 miles east of Beersheba, falls within its sights. Dimona houses Israelís only nuclear reactor and is believed to be where it stores warheads for its nuclear missiles.

    Israelís worst nightmare is that soon all its cities will be within range either of the Hezbollah Katyushas arrayed on the Lebanese border to the north or the increasingly sophisticated missiles stockpiled by Hamas to the south. Both groups have links to Israelís archenemy Iran.

    Israel has said that its aim is to smash Hamasís rocket-firing capability but also to topple the hardline Islamist regime that seized power in the Gaza Strip last year after bloody street battles with its secular rivals Fatah. Until that goal is achieved, many in Beersheba are packing their bags and heading for Tel Aviv or Eilat.

    ďMaybe 30 or 40 per cent of people have left the city,Ē said Ron Shukron, 26, running one of the few grocery shops still open. As he spoke a siren echoed through the empty streets. With only 15 seconds to take cover, he stepped under a reinforced support beam in the ceiling. Seconds later came the dull thud of a rocket exploding on the edge of town.


    Gaza rockets put Israel’s nuclear plant in battle zone - Times Online
    It's no longer a dog whistle, it's a fucking trombone


    All of God's children are not beautiful. Most of God's children are, in fact, barely presentable.


    If I wanted the government in my womb I'd fuck a Senator

  15. #45
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2007
    Location
    Acerbia
    Posts
    33,488

    Default

    Ok, to add some levity to a horrible situation, this picture of a protest here in NY made me laugh my ass off :



    maybe he got lost on his way to the OJ Simpson protest...either that or he really hated 'Angel of the Morning'

    of course the guy across the street had a sign that said 'Death to Hummus'
    It's no longer a dog whistle, it's a fucking trombone


    All of God's children are not beautiful. Most of God's children are, in fact, barely presentable.


    If I wanted the government in my womb I'd fuck a Senator

Page 3 of 15 FirstFirst 123456713 ... LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Barack Obama's energy policy: listening when we disagree
    By Fluffy in forum U.S. Politics and Issues
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: November 14th, 2008, 03:15 PM
  2. Replies: 31
    Last Post: October 15th, 2008, 11:37 AM
  3. Grim proving ground for Barack Obama's housing policy
    By witchcurlgirl in forum U.S. Politics and Issues
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: June 27th, 2008, 01:07 PM
  4. Barack Obama and John McCain argue over policy towards Cuba
    By Grimmlok in forum U.S. Politics and Issues
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: May 21st, 2008, 10:38 AM
  5. Barack Obama aides attack Hillary Clinton on foreign policy
    By kingcap72 in forum U.S. Politics and Issues
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: March 7th, 2008, 02:45 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •