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Thread: Gaza complicates Barack Obama's policy in Mideast

  1. #16
    Elite Member january's Avatar
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    But thats the kicker, isn't it? Palestinians really have no one who are "for them". Hamas doesn't truly feel like Palestinians are their people. They want chaos and the destruction of Israel, and they are more than willing for Palestinians to die by the hundreds if this brings about change. They are detestable. But they don't have even an a hundredth of power that Israel does, they can crush Palestine and they are more than willing to do so, innocent people be damned. Every time I see a small lifeless limp child being carried out of the devastation, it makes my heart weep.

    Good for you Effie about attending the demo, I would have liked to have done that myself. But ouch! Does being gassed hurt?
    Women ain't gonna let a thing like sense fuck up their argument. - Chris Rock

  2. #17
    Elite Member effie2's Avatar
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    Νot really,Jan,we had some trouble here lately and a lot of gassing around so we became used to it..lol
    This afternoon it was close tho,i had a mask on,so just my eyes run tears and my throat still burns ..
    My conciense feels great tho..
    "Effie is all kinds of awesome." - Some internet moderator


  3. #18
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    I'd like to protest both sides, they're both retarded.

    Actually, I'd rather evacuate anybody not interested in continuing the bloodshed, fence in those that are left, and drop a neutron bomb on them.. just glass the whole area clean.

    Then go in, and build a nice park.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  4. #19
    Elite Member january's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by effie2 View Post
    Νot really,Jan,we had some trouble here lately and a lot of gassing around so we became used to it..lol
    This afternoon it was close tho,i had a mask on,so just my eyes run tears and my throat still burns ..
    My conciense feels great tho..
    Strong lady! I would have cried like a little bitch and ran away I love that the Greeks are used to getting gassed by now
    Women ain't gonna let a thing like sense fuck up their argument. - Chris Rock

  5. #20
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    they're probably huffing it!
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  6. #21
    Elite Member effie2's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    they're probably huffing it!

    Funny thing is gass bombs used in here are made in Isreal..
    "Effie is all kinds of awesome." - Some internet moderator


  7. #22
    Elite Member nana55's Avatar
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    I have been confused about this for so long. I think my eyes are starting to open. Because I have so many Jewish friends I've only seen one side. My daughters also have many Jewish friends, (they were in all their AP classes in high school). However my daughters have been trying to make me see the other side. There is always 2 sides. The Palestines deserve their own homeland. Yes they don't believe in Isreals right to exist, but come on, look how powerful Isreal is, plus the backing of the U.S. There is not much they can do to fight back. I'm taking a look at how many countries throughout the world are angry with Isreal. We need to look a little more closely at both sides.
    If I can't be a good example, then let me be a horrible warning.

  8. #23
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    It is a pathological conflict, just sickening.

    I am not reflexively pro-Israeli, and I don't really know why Americans are supposed to be, especially when many actual Israelis don't support their govt's policies in this area.

    Most Americans have no clue how Palestinian people live and don't seem to be able to grasp the simple fact that no one is free unless everyone is free.

    I feel the same way as many others of you--I don't dare express these sentiments in public.

  9. #24
    Elite Member january's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BBDSP View Post
    I feel the same way as many others of you--I don't dare express these sentiments in public.
    Me neither, for the most part. I think that adds to my anger as well. Its like knowing that there is something so wrong and if you speak out, you'll be branded as anti-semetic. Its a really tough pill to swallow.

    You can't blame most people in the U.S. for being so pro-Israel, in most cases I think it comes down to pure ignorance. Thats not a slam on Americans as much as it is myself. I used to be totally ignorant and had a "Israel good/Palestinians bad" type of attitude as well because, quite frankly, I never was educated any differently. Plus, I grew up in a church that was Zionist and I believed what they told me, that Israel was amazing and deserving and they needed to protect themselves from bad people like the Palestinians. Like I said, while I was in Europe, it was the first time I ever heard what was going on in Gaza being referred to as an "occupation". It was also the first time that I saw Palestinians who were trying to break down Egyptian borders to climb in just to get food to feed their families, or crying because their family home that their parents built had been demolished, or wanting to go visit their family on the other side of town and being refused, bullied, and harassed by the Israeli forces. It was mind-blowing. And then while I was overseas, and I saw the faces of these dead children in Lebanon, and desperate people crying and wailing trying to pull kids and women out of the rubble, huge funeral marches for people where these dead kids were being carried...the kicker is when I called my mom at home and she said "can you believe those Palestinians?" I said mom, what is the news showing over there? And she said, "it shows them sending some rockets into Haifa." What? THAT'S what the news outlets here were showing. It never ceases to shock me. I told my mom, "mom over a thousand people have been killed here, most of them Lebanese civilians. Those are statistics from the U.N. Have you seen the airstrike in Qana at the apartment building which killed all of those children?" She was totally ignorant about it.

    This definition is from wiki and is the best way to sum up that Israel is responsible for numerous, egregious war crimes:

    Under international humanitarian law, warring parties are obliged to distinguish between combatants and civilians, ensure that attacks on legitimate military targets are proportional, and guarantee that the military advantage of such attacks outweigh the possible harm done to civilians.[115] Violations of these laws are considered war crimes.
    Women ain't gonna let a thing like sense fuck up their argument. - Chris Rock

  10. #25
    Elite Member L1049's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Kill Me View Post
    There are actually freakish fundamentalist Christian groups that want this kind of stuff to happen because it proves their good book correct and true. It's disgusting what has been happening.
    Cought* raptureready retards *cough*

    I personally get a kick out of people that automatically think you're anti-semitic if you speak ill of the Israeli government.

    Disliking the Israeli government and their policies =/= anti-semitism !!!!!

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Just Kill Me View Post
    Don't forget that the gerrymandered crazy quilt is quite similar to a Polish ghetto.

    Quote Originally Posted by january View Post
    You can't blame most people in the U.S. for being so pro-Israel, to civilians.[115] Violations of these laws are considered war crimes.
    According to a poll posted today by Glenn Greenwald, (an article worth reading, btw) 70% of the American people wish the US to remain neutral in I/P policy. Obviously, that is not what we get fromt he media establishment and our Congress critters.

    In addition to the numerous war crimes Israel has committed, they have violated
    Israel is the target of at least 65 UN Resolutions and the Palestinians are the target of none.

    (link is to a site worth perusing in depth)

    Israel is an occupying power with legal responsibility for the people in the Palestinian territories. Instead, they are treated much as the Jews were in the Warsaw Ghetto during the Nazi regime, including lack of access to food, medicines,clean drinking water, and severe restricions on freedom of movement and the ability to make a living.

    The great experiment
    Israeli-US-European collusion to starve the Palestinians into submission


    As long as one person in the family is working, the relatives, too, do not die of hunger, even if there is widespread malnutrition. Everyone who has any income shares it with all his brothers and sisters, parents, grandparents, cousins and their children. That is a primitive system, but quite effective in such circumstances. It seems that the planners of the experiment did not take this into account.

    Gazans sit atop northern roofs challenging Israeli orders to evacuate or face death

    Despite cold weather and Israeli warplanes flying overhead small crowds could be seen on rooftops across the northern Gaza Strip area. One home with large numbers of Gazans on its concrete roof was that of the de facto government Minister of Communication Yousif Al-Mansi. Citizens stayed on the roof until early morning.
    Imagine people who share even the excruciatingly little they have, so that nobody is abandoned to face adversity alone.
    Imagine people who voluntarily act as human shields for each other, let alone a government minister.
    People who value family, education, freedom and dignity so much that they risk their lives to fight for them.
    I think we could all learn a great deal from these people.
    These are the precious men, women and children who are being exterminated while the self-described "civilized" world watches without lifting a finger to save them, or even to enforce international law.
    Actions speak louder than words, and make it very clear who the barbarians are, who the terrorists are.
    Last edited by Sasha; December 30th, 2008 at 10:04 PM.

  12. #27
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    In this conflict I see right and wrong on both sides. No one is 100% either, and both sides have some valid points.

    But I do find it strange that one of the main issues is that there is so much trouble getting food and medicine into Gaza for the Palestinians.......but there seems to be very little trouble getting rockets and artillery in there.

    In that respect it's similar to the 'Troubles', where men need this fighting to keep going on for their own gain, while the innocent people that just want to go about daily life suffer.
    Last edited by witchcurlgirl; December 30th, 2008 at 10:41 PM.
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  13. #28
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    there seems to be very little trouble getting rockets and artillery in there.

    Even the Israeli's agree the rockets fired by Palestinians are home-made. There is no way, with such tight restrictions on air space, border crossings, and the lack of a harbor (with the Israeli Navy patrolling the waters) that foreign military aid would EVER get inside Gaza.

  14. #29
    Elite Member january's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha View Post
    men, women and children who are being exterminated while the self-described "civilized" world watches without lifting a finger to save them, or even to enforce international law.
    Actions speak louder than words, and make it very clear who the barbarians are, who the terrorists are.
    How many UN resolutions has Israel defied? They laugh in the face of the UN and their efforts to stop them, backed by the ever vigilant watchdog of the US. The US came out today and said that we have a "very special relationship" (ie., based on a Biblical passage) with Israel, and that we will do anything we can to protect them. It would be almost laughable if it wasn't so damn sad. The funny thing is is that Bush used Saddam's defying various UN resolutions as an excuse for war, while Israel has violated more UN resolutions that Iraq ever had. Israel will never be forced to comply with international law, they've made that clear. In 2002, they even intensified their attacks in the West Bank when told they needed to withdraw immediately. They have made a mockery of the whole process, and as a result the US has lost all its credibility in the eyes of the world. You want to know what really provokes terrorism against the US? You need to take a closer look at our unflinching relationship with Israel.
    Women ain't gonna let a thing like sense fuck up their argument. - Chris Rock

  15. #30
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sasha View Post
    there seems to be very little trouble getting rockets and artillery in there.

    Even the Israeli's agree the rockets fired by Palestinians are home-made. There is no way, with such tight restrictions on air space, border crossings, and the lack of a harbor (with the Israeli Navy patrolling the waters) that foreign military aid would EVER get inside Gaza.
    I know the rockets are homemade. But you need ordnance to make the rockets.....and it gets in there.

    There are many people- and nations- outside of Gaza that fund and will continue to fund Hamas, because it's in their interest to keep this going on. In November 2006, during an international embargo of Hamas, the organization announced that Iran had already given $120 million. During a visit by Hamas PM Haniyeh to Tehran that December, Iran pledged $250 million in aid to compensate for the Western boycott.

    Just like the American Irish used to fund the IRA.

    These poor civilians get caught between these people, who have no interest in peace, and use the Palestinians for their own ends. It's a terrible shame.

    Again, I see the points on both sides. I don't think Israel is right, and neither is Hamas or Fatah, nor was the PLO. It's not a black/white thing in my eyes. Only the deaths of the innocent is 100% wrong- and both sides commit those crimes. Of course, Israel is more powerful and can kill more, but if the shoe was on the other foot the same thing would happen to the Israelis.
    It's no longer a dog whistle, it's a fucking trombone


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