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Thread: For French, US health debate hard to imagine

  1. #16
    Elite Member lalala's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McJag View Post
    This would cause great upset here. GREAT. So,you have to live on half your salary,basically??
    So do you, if you compare what you get for your taxes and your obligatory expenses with what you get in return of your taxation in Europe ...see the comparison made by an American expat here
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/03/ma...20taxes&st=cse

  2. #17
    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    Look at it this way: you get taxed on every paycheck, or you go totally bankrupt with a long term illness.

    Hell, even a short term illness will drain you of everything you have and force you to sell your house in the US.
    Now this is very true-in SOME cases. Many,many people are like me. My insurance kicks in 100% at $6,000. So,the max I will ever spend is the 6,000. Up to the 6 thou,it pays 80% of everything. Take this-in July, I had to have an emergency surgery in the middle of the night. My part of the surgeon bill? $173.00. Massive infection,6 day hospital stay,private room,round the clock care-$54,000. Of that,I paid 2,000-and could have paid out for 2 years,if I chose. I worked many years for an excellent company and feel this benefit was earned-by me. For me. And my taxes (we pay no state tax at all)are fine. I have had enough money to fund a 401k, savings-still donating time and money to charities. I am satisfied I do more than enough to help the poor. We may be comparing apples to oranges-the US is very different from other countries-and all of you on here contributed to our populace. I don't know what will be decided. We do need improvement. I do know-it will not be exactly like any other country. Every country has to fit its own needs. What might be fine in UK would be a mess in the US. And vice versa!
    I didn't start out to collect diamonds, but somehow they just kept piling up.-Mae West

  3. #18
    Silver Member albatross's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McJag View Post
    Now this is very true-in SOME cases. Many,many people are like me. My insurance kicks in 100% at $6,000. So,the max I will ever spend is the 6,000. Up to the 6 thou,it pays 80% of everything. Take this-in July, I had to have an emergency surgery in the middle of the night. My part of the surgeon bill? $173.00. Massive infection,6 day hospital stay,private room,round the clock care-$54,000. Of that,I paid 2,000-and could have paid out for 2 years,if I chose. I worked many years for an excellent company and feel this benefit was earned-by me. For me. And my taxes (we pay no state tax at all)are fine. I have had enough money to fund a 401k, savings-still donating time and money to charities. I am satisfied I do more than enough to help the poor. We may be comparing apples to oranges-the US is very different from other countries-and all of you on here contributed to our populace. I don't know what will be decided. We do need improvement. I do know-it will not be exactly like any other country. Every country has to fit its own needs. What might be fine in UK would be a mess in the US. And vice versa!
    That's fine - as long as you're employed. Lose your job, and your health insurance costs skyrocket because you no longer have a company subsidizing your premiums, and you no longer qualify for group rates, so you're a much greater risk to an insurance company. Plus, insurance companies can simply refuse to provide you coverage because they decide you're too great of a risk.

    That's one of the huge problems of the US insurance system - it's tied to employment. So lose that or work for a company that doesn't offer health insurance, and you're completely at the mercy of large companies that are only interested in making a profit.

    Approximately half of the working population in the US works for small businesses, but only 38% of small businesses offer any health insurance, and a lot of those that do only offer coverage for the employees (no family plans). Surveys by both the National Small Business Association and Hewitt Associates have found that over the next few years, more and more small businesses will be dropping health coverage (10% are expected to drop coverage within a year, 19% within 3-5 years). That's going to leave more and more people on their own, which is just going to put an even greater strain on, not just our health care system, but on our entire economy. Already, more than 50% of personal bankruptcies are directly related to medical bills, and nearly 80% of those who filed for bankruptcy because of medical bills, actually had health insurance.

    No system is perfect, but ours just sucks. Far too often, even the option of getting health insurance is taken out of our hands.
    Dear Buddha, please bring me a pony and a plastic rocket...

  4. #19
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by McJag View Post
    Now this is very true-in SOME cases. Many,many people are like me. My insurance kicks in 100% at $6,000. So,the max I will ever spend is the 6,000. Up to the 6 thou,it pays 80% of everything. Take this-in July, I had to have an emergency surgery in the middle of the night. My part of the surgeon bill? $173.00. Massive infection,6 day hospital stay,private room,round the clock care-$54,000. Of that,I paid 2,000-and could have paid out for 2 years,if I chose. I worked many years for an excellent company and feel this benefit was earned-by me. For me. And my taxes (we pay no state tax at all)are fine. I have had enough money to fund a 401k, savings-still donating time and money to charities. I am satisfied I do more than enough to help the poor. We may be comparing apples to oranges-the US is very different from other countries-and all of you on here contributed to our populace. I don't know what will be decided. We do need improvement. I do know-it will not be exactly like any other country. Every country has to fit its own needs. What might be fine in UK would be a mess in the US. And vice versa!
    provided they don't find a "pre-existing condition" and drop your sorry ass
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  5. #20
    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    provided they don't find a "pre-existing condition" and drop your sorry ass
    Ha! Between me & hubby,we must have had every pre-exisiting condition known to man! Not even a raised eyebrow.
    I already "lost" my job a few years back. Took an early buy-out,complete with benefits. So far so good. Don't believe everything you hear.
    I didn't start out to collect diamonds, but somehow they just kept piling up.-Mae West

  6. #21
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Oh come on, there are MILLIONS of stories of people being dropped for having shit like acne.. or being a cop. Apparently being a cop is a pre-existing condition. So is being pregnant.

    Just because you have good insurance doesn't mean millions that aren't insured will magically be able to afford it tomorrow, or the tens of thousands that get dropped because of something insane suddenly won't be.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  7. #22
    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    Oh come on, there are MILLIONS of stories of people being dropped for having shit like acne.. or being a cop. Apparently being a cop is a pre-existing condition. So is being pregnant.

    Just because you have good insurance doesn't mean millions that aren't insured will magically be able to afford it tomorrow, or the tens of thousands that get dropped because of something insane suddenly won't be.
    But millions have it just as good as I do,Grimm. For instance: we once hired a woman 7 months pregnant. And she was covered. We hired people with disabled children,people with diabetes,cancer survivors,etc. all fully covered. My company is hardly the only one that did,either. I think the bad companies get all the publicity-partly because they are more rare. They deserve all the bad press they get. I think a lot of the-umm-excitement is from ordinary people with decent insurance. That is a lot of people. Of course you hear more of the bad-it is awful, makes good press. Just don't try to make that how we ALL get treated. Not true by a long shot!
    I didn't start out to collect diamonds, but somehow they just kept piling up.-Mae West

  8. #23
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    No, there's 47 million of you that can't afford insurance altogether
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  9. #24
    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    No, there's 47 million of you that can't afford insurance altogether
    Yes. We BLAME CANADA!!!
    I didn't start out to collect diamonds, but somehow they just kept piling up.-Mae West

  10. #25
    Elite Member Fluffy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lalala View Post
    So do you, if you compare what you get for your taxes and your obligatory expenses with what you get in return of your taxation in Europe ...see the comparison made by an American expat here
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/03/ma...20taxes&st=cse
    Very true. Many Americans overlook what Europeans get for their huge tax rates like free education including university.

  11. #26
    Gold Member Dorahacky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    Very true. Many Americans overlook what Europeans get for their huge tax rates like free education including university.
    And if that could happen in the US, sign me up. However, I think that the American government bungles what funds they're already given, so why give them more to fuck away? I don't think that if we were taxed 47%, we would have good health coverage and free education, as in Europe. I think we would have more bailouts and bonuses and bullshit, just at a higher price.

    Incidentally, I just started a new job - in county government, no less - and the benefits are such shit that I'm seriously considering not signing up for them. I'm waiting til I actually go through orientation and get to ask the HR Powerpoint talking head my very pointed questions before I decide, but the packet I was given to look at prior to the orientation indicates that the bennies are shit, shit, shit. I guess I'll have to see.
    We all like to think we're so special. But in the end, we all do the same stupid shit. - Dennis Miller


  12. #27
    Elite Member Fluffy's Avatar
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    The US mainly wouldn't be in such a pickle if we didn't spend the overwhelming majority of our funds on the military. Most of the government waste can be found right there in nearly any defense contract.

  13. #28
    Elite Member McJag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    The US mainly wouldn't be in such a pickle if we didn't spend the overwhelming majority of our funds on the military. Most of the government waste can be found right there in nearly any defense contract.
    ....and $50,000.00 toilet seats. Not to mention huge fraud in Medicare. Needs revamping and a better watch-dog.
    I didn't start out to collect diamonds, but somehow they just kept piling up.-Mae West

  14. #29
    Elite Member Fluffy's Avatar
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    Any fraud in Medicare pales in comparison to defense contractor fraud though.

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    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    if anybody mentions tort reform, i'll cut them
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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