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Thread: First gay soldier to be fired, for being gay, under Obama's watch

  1. #16
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    LOL there will never, EVER be another draft. EVER. A draft is instant political suicide.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  2. #17
    Elite Member Sweetie's Avatar
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    There will never be a mass disobedience by gays, or anyone else, allowed either....but you still mentioned it.

    The draft is still legal, what you spoke of isn't.

    and never say never....let all the Chinese come at us. We will need all the troops we can gather.

  3. #18
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    I said there SHOULD be, not there WILL be.

    The Chinese won't come at you with troops, what a silly idea.
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  4. #19
    Elite Member Sweetie's Avatar
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    We know Grim, we know...you know it all, or at least think you do. Nice play on words anyway....notice I never said there WOULD be a draft but that there COULD be should troops be needed.

    And speaking of the Chinese was just an example of the numbers. I never said they would attack us directly, but they could attack someone and then we join in. A silly idea is to think they spend all that time and money, to train all those troops, but then think they would never use them.

  5. #20
    Elite Member Cali's Avatar
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    Rep. Joe Sestak was on Rachel Maddow last night, and he said that the Obama Administration is committed to repealing it, but they want it to go through Congress and be a consensus decision:
    MADDOW: When the president says, Admiral Sestak, when he says that it could be slow going in part because it has to move through Congress -- and again, we know this because he wrote it in a handwritten letter to somebody who is currently being kicked out of the military, as Lieutenant Choi is -- he's essentially saying that Congress will be part of the reason that this needs to go slow. But you're saying that this could actually happen quite quickly.

    SESTAK: I think it could, yes. I think the president as commander in chief needs to be the one that says to the military -- and I understand what Secretary Gates said recently about the plate is kind of full -- that's not the Defense Department's decision. This is the commander in chief's decision to say we need to change it, which he has.

    I'd like to see us move it by this summer, and I think we can. We had hearings a year ago, and I'm a co-sponsor of the bill, and I testified at it. But we never got it out of committee. But I honestly believe with this particular president -- let's just re-emphasize that everyone, everyone is created equal.

    MADDOW: Do you think, Congressman Sestak, do you think that as an interim step, if it can't be done by the summer, if it can't be done some time soon for some reason, do you think that the president could order the military to stop investigating whether people are gay? Just stop implementing the policy for now until it can be reviewed, until Congress has a chance to decide if they're going to act on the matter? Would that be wise?

    SESTAK: I'm not sure. The reason I say this is we are a nation of laws. And in this last administration, we saw executive actions that seemed to bend, if not break, those laws. And even though it's for the right reason right now, I'd like to see us take this on right now, begin the process.

    And I know there's several of us veterans here -- Patrick Murphy, Eric Massa, myself, you know, warriors, veterans, like the lieutenant, that want to, as Ellen Tauscher, who is the primary mover of this, goes off to the State Department, that we can pick it up as co-sponsors, and hopefully rapidly move it. If it's a law, I think we should do it by due process.

    It's not that I don't want the president to do it the other way, but, you know, the last lessons that we've learned the last eight years, let's do it, and we should be doing it.
    Obama's 'don't ask' discharge: Choi talks: The Swamp

  6. #21
    Elite Member cynic's Avatar
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    ^^which is his way of letting someone else take the heat.....

  7. #22
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    He could suspend it right now. It gets more interesting, this is blowing up in the MSM..

    Story follows after update. Update: An army officer based out of St. Louis, MO, Sandy Tsao, who was booted from the military after telling her superiors she was gay in January, has received a handwritten note from President Barack Obama vowing that he will overturn the policy. The letter, posted by the Gay and Lesbian Alliance Against Defamation, was noted by ThinkProgress Friday. The letter was received and sent before the latest disclosure of a gay Arabic translator’s firing.



    The Raw Story | Investigative News and Politics
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  8. #23
    Elite Member Mel1973's Avatar
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    I still don't think he's gonna do shit about it...
    Kill him.
    Kill her.
    Kill It.
    Kill everything... that IS the solution!
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  9. #24
    Elite Member cynic's Avatar
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    ^^no, he won't.....and then he'll blame it on Congress....he's the Second Coming of Christ, don'tcha know?

  10. #25
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Interesting comment:

    All Obama has to do is issue a temporary executive order to stop firing anyone from being gay -- until the military has had a chance to make up its mind. This is win-win-win.

    The policy will stop "temporarily" - win

    The military doesn't have to do anything -- just keep "studying it" -- so no one can claim they overturned it - win

    The policy will be effectively overturned even though "temporary" - win

    The wingers can't complain that Obama overturned the policy because it's still technically in effect - win

    Then, just after he wins his second term, he can overturn it entirely without consequence - win

    No one will make a peep because it really hasn't been in effect for years - win

    Ok -- so it's win-win-win-win-win-win
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  11. #26
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    ^^^A Congressman was talking about Obama signing a temporary executive order to stop it, but he said it would just be better to get Congress to repeal it altogether

    And even though he should Obama's not going to tackle this issue anytime soon. He's not going to make the same mistake Clinton did and tackle it early in his term and watch it blow up in his face. Unless the pressure forces him and Congress to act sooner.

  12. #27
    Elite Member celeb_2006's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cynic View Post
    ...he's gonna fall down on the side of religion every time.....I'm not surprised by this at all.....he used gays, blacks and women to get into office and I don't think he gives a shit about any "social" legislation.....his primary goal is to be hero over the financial and world political arena......in my less than humble opinion....
    Really, in my heart I knew that when it came to real time, actions would not follow words.

    Now way Obama wants to risk the potential backlash from preventing this guy's discharge. He still fears the religious influence and the anti gay sentiments from people who are not conservative.

  13. #28
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Obama's 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Hypocrisy

    “Gay soliders are being dismissed not because the president of the United States feels they should be discriminated against, which would be bad enough. Instead, they’re being dismissed because the president doesn’t feel like doing anything about it.”


    Another gay officer was dismissed last week because of a policy Obama says he opposes. So why is the president too timid to do anything about it?

    Back in January, Second Lieutenant Sandy Tsao, a U.S. Army officer based out of St. Louis, came out to her superiors as gay resulting, under current policy, in a dishonorable discharge. At the same time, she wrote a letter to Barack Obama congratulating him on his election and explaining her decision and asking Obama to "help us to win the war against prejudice so that future generations will continue to work together and fight for our freedoms regardless of race, color, gender, religion, national origin, or sexual orientation."


    On the campaign trail, Obama was clearly committed to ending discrimination in the military. "We’re spending large sums of money to kick highly qualified gays or lesbians out of our military," he observed, "some of whom possess specialties like Arab-language capabilities that we desperately need." Ever since the New Year, however, Obama and his team have been slow-walking the implementation of their promise. On January 14, Robert Gibbs equivocated, saying "there are many challenges facing our nation now and the president-elect is focused first and foremost on jump-starting this economy... so not everything will get done in the beginning, but he's committed to following through." In late March, Defense Secretary Robert Gates expressed his desire to push the issue "down the road a little bit." And in late April, the White House altered language on its Web site in a way that appeared to soften the administration's commitment to changing the policy. On May 5, Tsao got a handrwritten note from Obama reiterating that he is "committed to changing our current policy." Then on May 7, Dan Choi, a National Guard officer who, ironically, is fluent in Arabic, got word that he would be dismissed from the military for being too gay.

    The game being played here is easy enough to understand. Obama's decision on a variety of fronts has been guided by a clear desire to avoid some of the early missteps made by Bill Clinton. And conventional accounts of Clinton’s early presidency put the way he got into an early dispute with the military brass over treatment of gay and lesbian servicemembers high on the list of missteps to be avoided.

    But while the political logic behind the administration's thinking is understandable enough, the moral logic is contemptible. The dismissal of gay and lesbian soldiers was unjust when undertaken by administrations that believed in the policy. But disagreement about policy is inevitable in a democracy and sometimes injustice reigns. What we have today, however, is an absurdity—an administration that clearly does not believe in the policy, that is on record as opposing the policy, that campaigned explicitly on changing the policy, and that nevertheless declines to change the policy.

    Tsao and Choi are being dismissed, in other words, not because the president of the United States feels they should be discriminated against, which would be bad enough. Instead, they're being dismissed because the president doesn't feel like doing anything about it.

    Indeed, at this point sure laziness and indifference seems to be the best the defenders of "don't ask don't tell" can even come up with on their merits. "In all due respect," John McCain told George Stephanopoulos on Sunday's episode of This Week, "right now the military is functioning extremely well in very difficult conditions so we should leave well enough alone."

    As a defense of discrimination, this is pretty weak tea. The military performed pretty damn well in World War II but that didn't stop Harry Truman from ordering the desegregation of the military in the late 1940s.

    The problem with the arguments for inaction isn't that they're wrong, it's that they prove too much. The military is always doing important work under difficult conditions. And the president is always dealing with a variety of hugely important issues. No day is ever going to be a convenient day for the brass to stop doing what they're doing, and start dealing with the difficulties involved in getting soldiers accustomed to serving alongside openly gay and lesbian crew members. And no day is ever going to be a convenient day for the White House political team to pick a fight with the military. But that's a reason to avoid delay, not to embrace it. The current policy is as wrong as it was during the campaign, and firing skilled and patriotic linguists is as insane today as it was during the campaign.

    In his letter to Lieutenant Tsao, Obama suggested that the need for congressional approval is the source of the delay. But there's some dispute as to whether or not congressional is needed at all. And there's no doubting that the president has the power to influence the implementation. But more to the point, the White House has much ability to influence the pace of congressional action. Legislation to end discrimination in military service has been introduced, and the president could be strongly and vocally backing it rather than using the purported need for such a bill as an excuse for delay. And ultimately delay does no one any favors. The change will have to come sooner or later. In political terms, the White House may as well act decisively, take whatever hits they're going to take, and be done with it rather than letting this fester like a sore. And substantively, if the military is going to have to adjust they may as well do it sooner rather than later rather than lose more valuable personnel.

    Instead of writing more letters to patriotic men and women in uniform who are tired of living a lie, it's time for Obama to start writing letters to members of Congress urging them to change the rules.


    Obama's 'Don't Ask, Don't Tell' Hypocrisy - The Daily Beast
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  14. #29
    Elite Member celeb_2006's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cynic View Post
    ^^which is his way of letting someone else take the heat.....
    Of course.

    It's these times that you figure out the true essence of a person's character and integrity.

    Let's all not forget that he may or may not run for re-election in 2012. Everything he says or does now will affect him come next election bid.

    Never forget that.

  15. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    should be 'Doesn't matter, mind your own business'
    I agree. I would like Obama to reverse this decision via executive order and make a point that a soldier is a soldier. God bless anyone willing to serve our country. Who gives a fuck who they like to fuck.

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