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Thread: Elisabeth Hasselbeck defends Sarah Palin's hunting by bringing up abortion

  1. #31
    Elite Member southernbelle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadDwarf View Post
    Some of you religious people have had SEX out of marriage, in fact some of you have never even been married so don't get all high and mighty because you look like a hypocrite. And obviously it was SEX for PLEASURE not reproduction because these people have never had children and must have used contraceptive. Hm, if they were ready for sex, they must have been ready for a baby- why were they screwing and didn't produce a child? Oh yeah, because sex isn't just for reproducing.
    So my advice is for those people to STFU and stop being hypocritical. You got lucky and didn't get knocked up even though your religious beliefs said you shouldn't have been screwing anyone out of wedlock. It looks bad when you want to hold others' accountable for your beliefs, but you can't even follow your own principles. Until you can walk the straight and narrow, you are really in no place to tell other's what they should do with their lives and bodies.

    Yes, "some of us" have had sex outside of marriage. It's pretty clear that you are referring to me, so I'll just directly address you instead of skirting around the names. I don't believe that sex is ONLY for reproduction, simply that it's not as casual and "anything goes" as a lot of people now make it out to be. There IS middle ground. I think it's something you should go into with a lot of thought. There seems to be a misconception that pro-life or religious people think you shouldn't have sex for any other reason than producing children in a marriage. I think you shouldn't have sex -married or not- if you aren't willing to take the proper precautions to prevent an unwanted pregnancy.

    I think that you shouldn't do it with a casual attitude and be lax about using contraceptives then use abortion as birth control when you do get knocked up. The ideal situation is to be responsible enough about it that you DON'T get pregnant... use birth control. I don't feel sorry for people who choose not to use birth control and then find themselves pregnant and unwilling or unable to care for a baby.

    I didn't say anything about whether or not it's out of wedlock. Whatever your situation happens to be, I maintain the position that if you are having sex, it needs to be protected sex if you don't want kids.

    With the many, many contraceptive options available to women in the US, including the morning after pill, I don't think there's any excuse for failing to take advantage of those and then expecting an abortion on demand when you get pregnant.

    I believe abortion should be limited to cases of rape, and that even then, there should be a limited time frame in which you can go through with it. Late term abortions are completely inexcusable.

    Oh, and until I've chosen not to use contraceptives, gotten pregnant, and chosen to abort, I'm not being hypocritical in saying that I don't support abortion.

  2. #32
    Gold Member Pippin69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhoAmI View Post
    I didn't say anything about rape. I was just talking about continuing to have sex with your husband even though you'd prefer not to in order to keep the marriage together.
    See, to me that's a form of rape. Just because it isn't violent, doesn't mean it isn't a physical violation of the woman's body.

    and I agree with you about the pill having weird side effects no one tells you about. it's not fair that that info is kept out of the public knowledge.
    "Just because I walked into a turd supermarket doesn't mean I have to buy anything." - John Oliver

  3. #33
    Elite Member WhoAmI's Avatar
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    It seems like there are many, many types of contraception available until you can't use any hormone-based ones. Then your options narrow drastically. Foam, condoms, or diaphragm. All have high failure rates. The IUD can be dangerous.

    I am not a proponent of casual sex. I am just of the age when I've seen bad, unexpected things happen to female friends. Broken condoms resulting in pregnancy. Being told you're infertile by your doctor followed by pregnancy. Shit happens. Life is not ideal. Hard choices are made.

  4. #34
    Elite Member Penny Lane's Avatar
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    Damnit, I'm always late to the babykiller parties.

  5. #35
    Elite Member *DIVA!'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Penny Lane View Post
    Damnit, I'm always late to the babykiller parties.
    And have so much to say, you don't know where to start!


    I don''t know if she really fucked the board though. Maybe just put the tip in. -Mrs. Dark

  6. #36
    Elite Member Penny Lane's Avatar
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    I don't know if I want to get into it now... I could post the full text from the Catholic Catechism on premarital sex, but then I'd be like Elisabeth... bringing up irrelevant shit in a thread about her propensity to bring up irrelevant shit.

  7. #37
    Elite Member NicoleWasHere's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DeadDwarf View Post
    Some of you religious people have had SEX out of marriage, in fact some of you have never even been married so don't get all high and mighty because you look like a hypocrite. And obviously it was SEX for PLEASURE not reproduction because these people have never had children and must have used contraceptive. Hm, if they were ready for sex, they must have been ready for a baby- why were they screwing and didn't produce a child? Oh yeah, because sex isn't just for reproducing.
    So my advice is for those people to STFU and stop being hypocritical. You got lucky and didn't get knocked up even though your religious beliefs said you shouldn't have been screwing anyone out of wedlock. It looks bad when you want to hold others' accountable for your beliefs, but you can't even follow your own principles. Until you can walk the straight and narrow, you are really in no place to tell other's what they should do with their lives and bodies.
    Let's get married, plz.

  8. #38
    Elite Member WhoAmI's Avatar
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    I suppose you could post the text on chasing helpless animals from helicopters and gunning them down, leaving them to die after hours of profound fear and agony. I doubt the Pope would be for this. He's an animal lover and believes one should respect nature. It's the "go forth and take over the earth to await the Rapture" types who are into this shit.

  9. #39
    Elite Member ConstanceSpry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nana55 View Post
    ^^ That's like saying you should support abortion in all cases and that is not how most people think. I am pro-choice, but I'm not for having abortions willy nilly.
    That's exactly how most pro-choice people I know, including myself, think. I would support abortion in each and every case, I don't care what the reasoning is. If a woman does not want to carry out a pregnancy, no one should be able to force her. Even if she uses abortion as birth control, it's her body and no one elses' business. And certainly preferable to popping out unwanted infants tax payers will have to support.
    Last edited by ConstanceSpry; February 6th, 2009 at 10:15 PM. Reason: Edited for typos

  10. #40
    Gold Member Pippin69's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WhoAmI View Post
    It seems like there are many, many types of contraception available until you can't use any hormone-based ones. Then your options narrow drastically. Foam, condoms, or diaphragm. All have high failure rates. The IUD can be dangerous.

    I am not a proponent of casual sex. I am just of the age when I've seen bad, unexpected things happen to female friends. Broken condoms resulting in pregnancy. Being told you're infertile by your doctor followed by pregnancy. Shit happens. Life is not ideal. Hard choices are made.
    The hormone ones can be so dangerous in some cases. There is always doubling up, like a diaphragm and a condom, or a condom and the pill (when it can be taken.) etc. Hopefully that can increase the safety rate.

    I've never been one to encourage one night stands or affairs, nothing is worth the risks, I've seen some stuff that just flat out scares me.
    "Just because I walked into a turd supermarket doesn't mean I have to buy anything." - John Oliver

  11. #41
    Elite Member Penny Lane's Avatar
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    A little trivia nugget.. aerial wolf hunting was used by the Soviet Union in the 40s. Fucking communists. How's that for irrelevant shit, Elisabeth?

  12. #42
    Elite Member WhoAmI's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pippin69 View Post
    The hormone ones can be so dangerous in some cases. There is always doubling up, like a diaphragm and a condom, or a condom and the pill (when it can be taken.) etc. Hopefully that can increase the safety rate.
    The thought of sticking a diaphragm up myself and then fishing it out gives me the heebie-jeebies. I've known people who had to go to the doctor to get them out. Fuck that. Obama, please, please, please fund research for better birth control. Put the male pill on a fast-track. Let them suffer some side effects.

    And since we're sorta on the topic:

    Pill May Kill Sex Drive Forever

    28 May, 2005 02:08 GMT

    Taking the Pill for as little as six months could destroy a woman's sex drive forever, say scientists. The oral contraceptive dramatically reduces the levels of a hormone responsible for desire. And simply stopping taking it fails to reverse the effect, it is feared.

    A survey produced such dramatic results that lead researcher Dr. Irwin Goldstein advised any woman on the Pill who has sexual problems to stop taking it and try another method of birth control.

    "There is a possibility it is imprinting a woman for the rest of her life," he said.

    The Pill was launched in Britain at the beginning of the Swinging Sixties with the promise of freeing women from the fear of unwanted pregnancy.

    Despite a number of health scares, three million still take it.

    But now it appears they could pay a worrying price. Synthetic hormones in the Pill which stop ovulation also appear dramatically to lower levels of the hormone testosterone, which is vital to both male and female libido.

    'When Pills Are Handed Out Like Candy'

    When women on the Pill were tested, levels of a chemical which wipes out testosterone were found to be seven times higher than in those who have never taken it.

    Most worryingly, even those who were not on the Pill but had taken it in the past had levels up to four times higher than those who had never used it.

    Past studies had suggested that taking the Pill can dampen a woman's sexual desire but if she comes off it her libido returns within four weeks.

    Dr. Goldstein, former director of the Institute for Sexual Medicine at Boston University, Massachusetts, said that while his research seemed to suggest the effects could be permanent, more investigations were needed to establish this for certain.

    His colleague Dr. Claudia Panzer said: "When Pills are handed out like candy I do not think doctors always tell women about potential side effects. I don't think women realize the Pill can do bad things to their sex life. Not everybody will be affected, but this is out there and it is real. Women should know it can have effects on their sex lives and they should be told the pros and the cons."

    Many Factors Affect Desire

    The research, revealed in New Scientist magazine, took 125 women in their mid-30s who were attending a clinic for sexual dysfunction.

    Sixty-two were taking the Pill, 40 had taken it in the past but were no longer doing so, and 23 had never taken it.

    All those who were on the Pill or had taken it in the past had been on it for at least six months.

    The study team, who tested the women every three months for a year, measured levels of a chemical called Sex Hormone Binding Globulin (SHBG) which takes testosterone out of circulation.

    They found that levels of SHBG were seven times higher in Pill users than in those who had never taken the oral contraceptive.

    Among those who had taken it in the past but stopped, levels were still three to four times higher. In previous research, Dr. Goldstein found the Pill can leave a woman with only a third of the testosterone levels she needs to enjoy sex.

    However, he also pointed out that there are many factors which affect desire, and if a woman trusts her method of contraception, that could be a bigger factor in her wanting sex than elevated levels of SHBG.

    Some Brands Actually Boost Testosterone Levels

    A spokesman for the fpa, formerly the Family Planning Association, said the researchers had not provided enough details about other factors which might have affected the women's libido.

    She said not all brands of Pill lower testosterone and some actually boost levels, which is why certain women can suffer side-effects such as acne.

    "Studies do show that for some women, using the contraceptive pill or other hormonal methods may affect mood change and interest in sex," she said. "In most cases, where other factors are not considered to be the problem, changing pills or using another effective non-hormonal method is advised.

    "The issues around sexual interest and non-interest are highly complex. Use of hormonal methods generally are on the increase which suggests that loss of libido is not an issue for most women."
    Pill May Kill Sex Drive Forever

  13. #43
    Gold Member Pippin69's Avatar
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    ^ Oh man, that's awful. It's bad enough to mess with it while being on it, but to permanently destroy it just not right. Hormones are such a delicate balance, it's a shame to mess with them if the DRs don't have a way of fixing them if anything goes wrong.

    I second your prayer to Obama! Let the man take the physical risks for once.
    "Just because I walked into a turd supermarket doesn't mean I have to buy anything." - John Oliver

  14. #44
    Elite Member DeadDwarf's Avatar
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    Southernbelle-

    I think you don't understand the whole picture. MANY people are responsible, they use protection and still get pregnant. And as we all know, the only way to never get pregnant is to avoid sex, and that won't happen because humans are sexual beings; therefore, there will be unplanned (and unwanted) pregnancies.

    Not everyone that has had an abortion was having one night stands and screwing without birth control. Are the majority of people getting abortions using it as a birth control method? I highly doubt it and if you want to go there, please provide some facts to back up your assumption. If someone is willing to make an appointment, go through the pain and scary procedure to abort a pregnancy, do you really think they figured it would be easier to get an abortion than to use a condom? That's not realistic of the majority of abortions.

    I have a friend who is very religious, she has admitted she never wants to have children- that she would probably neglect them and never really love them. She had a HORRIFIC childhood and knew she would never be a good mother. So she was responsible, she used birth control perfectly and was with one man- her husband.

    SHE GOT PREGNANT. I don't expect you to understand how she felt, but she was devastated, this was HELL for her. She cried and cried, she wished over and over that the pregnancy would just disappear. It was a bad dream and she couldn't accept it. She said her first instincts were to get rid of the pregnancy, she even wondered if there were natural ways to miscarry so her husband wouldn't know.

    She wanted an abortion, but her husband and their church browbeat her, after all, it was a "blessing" and a "gift" from God. And she accepted that this was what was going to happen (that she had no choice) and she had to have this child even though she didn't want it. Then at 10 weeks she miscarried. Instead of sadness, she was relieved and actually happy, nature did it's own abortion and "got rid" of her "problem." (how she said it).

    Now, why the hell should women have to live through that? Why should someone be forced to have a baby- even when she has been responsible and tried everything she could to prevent it?

    People like to say, "Oh she should give it up for adoption then." But in REALITY that usually doesn't happen because the same forces that make the woman keep the baby (i.e. religion) also pressure her to raise the child as her own. The woman suffers because she has a child she never wanted and the child suffers because he is born to a mother who never loved him.

    Wake up and see the big picture here. In a perfect world every baby created would be wanted and loved, but that doesn't happen.

  15. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    Whether someone is pro-life/pro-choice doesn't change the fact that Hasselbeck dragged the abortion debate into a discussion about shooting wolves from an airplane. It makes no sense, since the issues aren't remotely related. And when that fact was pointed out to her she tried to whine about socialism, which is why she's an idiot.
    I totally agree. I hadn't seen the commercial until it aired on The View but what I got from it is that Ashley Judd is against the way the wolves are killed, not that they are being killed.

    Unless abortions are being done by a doctor shooting at women from an airplane I really don't see what one has to do with the other.

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