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Thread: Do we still want to talk about this Trump thing?

  1. #766
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    I don't understand how anyone that supports women's rights voted Trump, and if they now have buyers remorse I have no fucking sympathy. At least the open racists that voted for Trump were well informed enough to know what they were voting for.

    Anyone that actually thought that Trump would support women, the various sexual minorities, or any race or religion other than white christian is an eedjit. He's not going to bring jobs (the kind his voters mean, anyway) back unless he has a time machine and can turn the entire global economy back to 1946. If people fell for that they were bamboozled. Anyone that thinks anything of major import was in the Clinton wikileaks was suckered by misinformation.

    Hilary was a flawed candidate. Aren't they all? However, she had literally spent her entire career fighting for women’s rights, discussed it in almost every speech, and would have been following an administration that passed Lilly Ledbetter. She stood on stage and defended the right to third trimester abortions while Trump yelled about 'babies being ripped from the womb in the 9th month'.

    Trump never, ever, showed any interest in women’s issues or in women at all, unless he wanted to fuck them. If you voted for him expecting him to do anything positive for women and now you're sorry that’s on you, not him.
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  2. #767
    Elite Member louiswinthorpe111's Avatar
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    I don't want daggers thrown at Chloroform Casey, as I appreciate her honesty in voting for Trump.

    As a self employed person myself, I understood that Trump's "tax plan" would lower my taxes by 15%. However, once I analyzed his overall plan, it was worse off for American as a whole, and this was one of my decisions. Truthfully, this isn't a reference to CC, but I don't really understand where people get the notion that they get to determine where their tax dollars go? Most people can't even handle their own monthly budgets, think spending is "out of control," but have no idea where all the money really goes. They think it goes to the "lazy" people on welfare, when in fact, that's a very small percentage of the actual budget.

    I am ok with higher taxes if we get a bigger bang for our buck. Let's talk about US taxes vs. Norway taxes

    US $100,000 income (family of 4)
    -35% tax rate
    =net 65,000
    -12,000 insurance
    -10,000 retirement savings
    -10,000 daycare costs
    net $41,600 after expenses, and this doesn't include saving for college

    Norway example
    $100,000 income
    -50% tax rate
    $50,000 net
    - $0 healthcare costs
    - $0 retirement savings
    - $0 daycare costs
    - $0 college savings
    =net $50,000

    Unless someone on the European side can show me where I am off here, I think the Europeans get a better deal.

    I also think the shitty economy is bullshit. Where I am, I know SOOO many people that are trying to hire, decent, qualified workers, but can't find them. So there are plenty of jobs. The people that bitch about the lazy people on welfare, also have entitlement issues because they think they are entitled to a high paying job by having little to no training/education, or don't want to move.....etc.... they have just as many excuses.

    I wasn't a big Hillary fan myself, nor was I for Bernie. Or any of the Republican candidates. But I thought they were all rational human beings, which Trump is clearly not. Trump is all about Trump. Always has been, always will be. I don't know why others don't see that.
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  3. #768
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    Quote Originally Posted by louiswinthorpe111 View Post
    ...

    I also think the shitty economy is bullshit. Where I am, I know SOOO many people that are trying to hire, decent, qualified workers, but can't find them. So there are plenty of jobs. The people that bitch about the lazy people on welfare, also have entitlement issues because they think they are entitled to a high paying job by having little to no training/education, or don't want to move.....etc.... they have just as many excuses.

    ....
    not exactly.

    some places are booming, like silicon valley. so if you have a 4 year degree from MIT or stanford (better yet, an advanced degree), you're in a good position.

    but there are other places that are NOT booming. industrial towns, coal mines of WV, etc. those places are in the dumps and people have no opportunities. and a lot of people who live in those places voted for trump because they're so desperate that they actually believed that he could help them. you know, by lowering corporate taxes and lifting sanctions. the only thing that would help those people are education and moving to a different town. but that's not likely to happen because of their culture. and there is nothing trump can do to help them. unless, like WCG said, trum can get in the delorean and take us back to 1946. or even 1846.
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  4. #769
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    This fb exchange captures the entire problem with American voters. It's funny, and I'm laughing at the idiot. But in all seriousness it's very sad.



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  5. #770
    Elite Member louiswinthorpe111's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by czb View Post
    not exactly.

    some places are booming, like silicon valley. so if you have a 4 year degree from MIT or stanford (better yet, an advanced degree), you're in a good position.

    but there are other places that are NOT booming. industrial towns, coal mines of WV, etc. those places are in the dumps and people have no opportunities. and a lot of people who live in those places voted for trump because they're so desperate that they actually believed that he could help them. you know, by lowering corporate taxes and lifting sanctions. the only thing that would help those people are education and moving to a different town. but that's not likely to happen because of their culture. and there is nothing trump can do to help them. unless, like WCG said, trum can get in the delorean and take us back to 1946. or even 1846.
    This proves my point. The economy isn't shitty. They are the problem, not the economy. For them, the economy will be shitty for the rest of their lives. The world changes man, if you aren't willing to change with it, then you get left behind. Trump told them what they wanted to hear, which they lapped up, still ignoring the real problem. There is no hope for them.

    FYI, I'm in Iowa. not Silicon Valley, not jobs requiring 4 year degrees. Good paying trade jobs. House painters, flooring sales, truck drivers. Jobs are there, it's mainly about people not wanting to change.
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  6. #771
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    ^^^ i know you're not in silicon valley. again, that proves MY point.

    in some places in the country, the economy is doing fine. in other places, it's in the nadir. and trump connected to people in those locations because they are so desperate.

  7. #772
    Elite Member Beeyotch's Avatar
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    ^People like that [in witchcurl's FB exchange post] won't learn though. Being ridiculed and taken to task for being stupid just feeds back into the "liberal elites think they're so much better 'n us, so THEY'RE EVIL" loop. Because it FEELS better to vilify someone who points out your mistakes and stupidity than to actually admit you were wrong and you were dumb enough to fall for stupid shit.

  8. #773
    Elite Member ConstanceSpry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Seapharris7 View Post
    I live in an area, south Texas, that feels like 70-80% Hispanic, that the majority supposedly voted Trump. So, while I question how many self hating Hispanics voted for the Wall Building Man Child... Or was something going on with the votes? About half of registered voters didn't even bother to vote, or in some areas, voted for other things - but didn't decide on a President. I'd venture to say both candidates had MAJOR issues going into the campaign... But if you had been paying attention to Trump - even within his own party prior to him getting the nom - NONE of what he's doing is surprising. But it's setting EVERYONE up for a potentially devasting outcome.



    ... And he isn't even IN office yet
    We had the same weirdness around here but it seems to be mainly down to re-districting and last minute polling place relocations from one church to another. So many people who showed up to vote and only had their lunch hour or a short work break, weren't able to get to the new voting location and vote within that time frame. And the ridiculous voter ID laws also caused problems. Also, supposedly, many provisional ballots were thrown out if they weren't in line with the desired candidates.

    Quote Originally Posted by stella blue View Post
    I'll be honest. I don't even care anymore. I should, but I don't. I'm white, straight, educated, employed, and I have an IUD. I can afford my 400 bucks a month for insurance. I don't have kids, and I'm going to keep kicking the student loan can down the road until I die. I showed up and voted. So the people who voted wrong, or didn't vote at all, can kiss my ass. Actually, the ones who didn't vote at all can kiss my ass twice. This is what this asshat has done to me. I do. not. give. one. single. fuck. anymore. And that is sad. I'm not an asshole, but I sure as hell will play one for the next four years. We go high, my left foot.
    We can't give up. This doesn't just concern people who voted against their interests, it's about the environment, everyone's rights and survival of the US, which the orange asshole and his minions are all set to turn into a corporate aristocracy. Everyone who is able needs to block them as much as possible for the next 4 years so they are only able to do as little damage as possible. We cannot let greed and stupidity and ignorance win!!

    Quote Originally Posted by louiswinthorpe111 View Post
    This proves my point. The economy isn't shitty. They are the problem, not the economy. For them, the economy will be shitty for the rest of their lives. The world changes man, if you aren't willing to change with it, then you get left behind. Trump told them what they wanted to hear, which they lapped up, still ignoring the real problem. There is no hope for them.

    FYI, I'm in Iowa. not Silicon Valley, not jobs requiring 4 year degrees. Good paying trade jobs. House painters, flooring sales, truck drivers. Jobs are there, it's mainly about people not wanting to change.
    For many in rural areas, there are literally zero work opportunities. If you don't even have enough money to put food on the table, how are you going to afford to move to work elsewhere? Not everyone has the same opportunities or even capacity for learning, there has to be help for those who cannot measure up to society's educational expectations. It's a bad situation, but having voted for the orange turd in their desperation is only going to make these people's problems worse.
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  9. #774
    Elite Member Kittylady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConstanceSpry View Post
    For many in rural areas, there are literally zero work opportunities. If you don't even have enough money to put food on the table, how are you going to afford to move to work elsewhere? Not everyone has the same opportunities or even capacity for learning, there has to be help for those who cannot measure up to society's educational expectations. It's a bad situation, but having voted for the orange turd in their desperation is only going to make these people's problems worse.
    Not just that, but poorer areas also suffer from chronic educational underfunding and poorer school systems. Furthering your education is hard when you don't have the finances to pursue it privately or because you have to work every hour that you can for peanuts just to support yourself and your wider family. It's easy to say that people should drag themselves out of holes, but sometimes poverty makes the sides almost insurmountably slippy.
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  10. #775
    Elite Member Trixie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    This fb exchange captures the entire problem with American voters. It's funny, and I'm laughing at the idiot. But in all seriousness it's very sad.
    I know...it still blows my mind that the number of people signing up for Obamacare increased AFTER the election, with the highest numbers in the States that went Trump--Florida, Texas, North Carolina, Georgia, Michigan. WHAT.THE.FUCK. They really don't understand that the Affordable Care Act IS Obamacare??? They think their health insurance with government assistance just fell from the fucking sky? And those who bitch about the cost need to look into getting their own private policies and see how that works out for them, with no open enrollment covering pre-existing conditions. Oh well, they'll all just go back to being uninsured and flooding the E.R.s with non-paying patients who drive the costs up for everyone with insurance.

    I bet if Trump didn't change a thing except the name...TRUMPcare, his minions would all sign up and call it wonderful.

    Need to go check my blood pressure now.
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  11. #776
    Elite Member Beeyotch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kittylady View Post
    Not just that, but poorer areas also suffer from chronic educational underfunding and poorer school systems. Furthering your education is hard when you don't have the finances to pursue it privately or because you have to work every hour that you can for peanuts just to support yourself and your wider family. It's easy to say that people should drag themselves out of holes, but sometimes poverty makes the sides almost insurmountably slippy.
    ^This is true. It makes me crazy when my FIL throws out "boot-strapping" as a solution to pulling one's self out of poverty. Because his family was dirt poor with 7 kids, alcoholic parents, once had to burn furniture for firewood one winter (infamous family story), and they all went to college, got jobs, are now self-supporting middle class or better.

    It's maddening trying to get someone like him to understand that it's not always because people are plain lazy and unmotivated/unwilling to better themselves/their situation. He even worked as a manager at Baltimore housing projects in the 80's (think The Wire), so you'd think he'd have a more empathetic or at least realistic viewpoint, but no. He scoffs at the idea that he has white privilege or any privilege (or luck) at all. He's a very intelligent guy, but he can't see beyond this worldview he's had forever, and it doesn't reflect today's reality.

  12. #777
    Elite Member louiswinthorpe111's Avatar
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    I am not suggesting a coal miner go back to school to become a nurse or something. I am not. There is NO schooling needed to be a CDL truck driver. Most large companies will train their drivers to get licensed. My husband has trained plenty. These jobs pay $50K+ plus per year, and they are available in EVERY STATE, with a huge shortage of workers. You don't have to be smart to have that job.

    I am in rural America. I see it. I see plenty of people that sit around and bitch that their assembly job in a factory is gone, and are mad because there aren't other jobs out there like that. No one is running off to work in the meat packing plant, which pays damn good but is brutal work. Again, you don't have to be smart to have that job. I know farm hands, who only work during growing season. I live in John Deere country, who just this week announced early retirement for thousands just to get them off payroll. I lived through the farm and factory recession in the 80's. I get it. But there are options that people don't want to see or just don't want to do.
    Last edited by louiswinthorpe111; January 10th, 2017 at 12:14 PM. Reason: posted late
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    Elite Member ConstanceSpry's Avatar
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    ^^That's for sure, there are always people who just don't want to take steps to help themselves. But there are also plenty who truly can't dig themselves out of the bad situations they are in. For example, to get your CDL training/license, you have to already have a driver's license. Many people don't know how to drive because they are too poor to buy a car and couldn't afford auto insurance anyway. And if you are stuck in a non-agricultural area you can't work as a farm hand. If there are no factories or other large employers around and most small businesses are closed because the area is depressed and no one can afford to buy anything, and there is no affordable public transportation, you are basically screwed. There needs to be a hand up for people who are stuck in hopeless situations.
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    Source: Occupy Democrats


    Hypocrite Republicans Just Voted To Add $10 Trillion To The National Debt

    The Republican Party is finally revealing itself for what it really is – an ideologically vacant circus of cowards, liars, and frauds. They aren’t even pretending to hide their outrageous hypocrisy anymore. Their behavior reveals that all the outrage and the self-righteous indignation over the efforts of the Obama administration to run this country efficiently was nothing but partisan bluster designed to undermine the President on the basis of weak justifications that they themselves are admitting were nothing but bullshit in the first place. Remember the debt ceiling crisis of 2011, when House Republicans suddenly were concerned about the national debt after their overseas wars ballooned it into the trillions? The only way that Paul Ryan and the rest of the party of “fiscal responsibility” could see themselves allowing the ceiling to be raised was by gutting Medicare and Social Security. They finally got what they wanted – $917 billion in budget cuts in exchange for a $900 billion extension in the debt ceiling.
    “I think some of our members may have thought the default issue was a hostage you might take a chance at shooting. Most of us didn’t think that. What we did learn is this – it’s a hostage that’s worth ransoming. And it focuses the Congress on something that must be done” said Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-KY).

    Remember how Donald Trump complained endlessly about how Hillary Clinton was going to balloon the debt, and how he promised to “stop” the deficits?



    So we have now $19 trillion in deficits. $19 trillion, you know if you look, we owe! When I say that, we owe, this is what you’re talking about, we owe $19 trillion as a country. And we’re gonna knock it down and we’re gonna bring it down big league and quickly, we’re gonna bring jobs back, we’re gonna bring business back, we’re gonna stop our deficits, we’re gonna stop our deficits, we’re gonna do it very quickly” said Trump on the campaign trail.


    So it should make you furious beyond all reason to learn that Senate Republicans have just voted to increase the federal debt by $10 trillion dollars. The Senate just passed a concurrent budget resolution that authorized a national debt of over $29 trillion over the next ten years. Every single Republican voted in favor of this resolution – with the exception of Sen. Rand Paul (R-KY), who apparently is the only conservative with any principles left in American government.




    Republicans are set to send our country into sky-high levels of debt, which will not only give them the money they need to build a useless border wall, offset the losses from the giant tax breaks they’re set to hand out to their corporate overlords, and wage a couple wars in the Middle East, but will also hamstring Democrats from having the resources to fix the giant mess these hypocrites are going to leave our country in.
    The Republican Party just abandoned eight years of tough-talk and concern for the budget in the blink of an eye. There is no guiding principle or moral conviction governing these reprehensible mercenaries except to serve the needs of corporations and the wealthy oligarchs that rule this nation.


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    WCG, could you enlarge those fb posts, please? I'd like to read them.

    I was astonished to learn that some of my fellow English teachers had hosted debates about the US elections and that more students than I would have thought supported Trump. One of his most ardent supporters was...wait for it...a Muslim kid. The mind boggles.
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