Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast
Results 46 to 60 of 77

Thread: Dems cave utterly on healthcare: no public option is on the table, no reform, zero.

  1. #46
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    10 miles from Pootie Tang
    Posts
    21,909

    Default

    Grim, I honestly don't think he's weak. He wouldn't have survived that campaign if he was. But he, and the rest of the Dems, need to start showing some backbone and stop playing it so damn safe.

    It's ticking me off so much I'm about to change my avatar.

  2. #47
    Elite Member
    Join Date
    May 2008
    Posts
    4,250

    Default

    I agree that Obama and the Dems should be playing harder, but I'm also afraid that liberals and progresives backing away from Obama will only help the GOP. We saw this before with Clinton. Moreover, Obama has done a lot more in a way of a progressive aganda in his first seven months than any President since LBJ (if not before). he also has much more on his plate (the economic disaster, the cleaning up of Bush shit, etc.) than an incoming President usually faces. I'm not saying we should give up our agenda, but rather we should empower Obama when his agenda and ours match (and they usually do).

  3. #48
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In WhoreLand fucking your MOM
    Posts
    55,372

    Default

    Uh, if Obama's agenda was actually being pushed, progressives would not be giving up on him.

    Why are you blaming the people who actually WANT him to enact the agenda he was voted into enact, but has refused?

    It's his fault, not theirs. If he actually DID the things he said he was going to, his base would be solid. So far he hasn't. That's his problem.

    Anyhow, another miserable article about how his "health reform" is a cash givaway to the insurance industry:


    This is just sick. From the New York Times:


    The hope of a government-run insurance option is all but gone. So there will be no effective alternative for consumers in the market for health coverage, which means no competitive pressure for private insurers to rein in premiums and other charges. (Forget about the nonprofit cooperatives. That’s like sending peewee footballers up against the Super Bowl champs.)

    Insurance companies are delighted with the way “reform” is unfolding. Think of it: The government is planning to require most uninsured Americans to buy health coverage. Millions of young and healthy individuals will be herded into the industry’s welcoming arms. This is the population the insurers drool over.

    So just to get this straight. You and I are probably going to pay more in taxes, regardless of what they tell us, and our country is going to be set back another trillion bucks, so that Blue Cross can make even more money, while continuing to up our premiums by 25% a year with no commensurate increase in benefits. It's good to be king. And let's not forget the drug companies:


    The White House, for its part, agreed not to seek additional savings from the drug companies over those 10 years. This resulted in big grins and high fives at the drug lobby. The White House was rolled. The deal meant that the government’s ability to use its enormous purchasing power to negotiate lower drug prices was off the table.

    This is what it feels like to be rolled. And played.

    AMERICAblog News| A great nation deserves the truth

    another piece from the Washington Post

    They're all over the papers this morning, from respected liberal voices. This one from Eugene Robinson:

    Clearly, the White House feels itself on the defensive. But why?

    Consider the political landscape. Democrats control the White House and both houses of Congress. No matter how disciplined Republicans are in opposing any reforms -- even if Republican objections are accommodated -- they don't have the votes to kill a final bill.

    If conservative "Blue Dog" Democrats are successful in nixing a public health insurance option and watering down other reforms, progressive voters have a right to ask why they went to such trouble to elect Democratic majorities and a Democratic president. But the Senate can still resort to a parliamentary maneuver that would require only 51 votes, rendering most objections irrelevant. Historical trends indicate that it's unlikely the Democrats will expand their majorities in 2010. Politically, therefore, there's not likely to be a better moment for health reform than right now.


    Robinson raises a good point. It's pretty pathetic admitting that you can't even get 51 votes in your own party. The point is, you can. If you choose to lead.

    AMERICAblog News| A great nation deserves the truth

    and AMAZINGLY, after caving to GOP pressure they STILL won't support any kind of health reform. Imagine that!

    Republican • National • Committee


    Seriously. Fucking pathetic.

    on a lighter note, yet no less caustic:

    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  4. #49
    Elite Member Fluffy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    5,600

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    It's ticking me off so much I'm about to change my avatar.
    I've gotten so used to your avvie, how am I supposed to go on without seeing your beer mug?

  5. #50
    Elite Member Mr. Authority's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Royal Oak,MI
    Posts
    4,631

    Default

    I honestly feel hopeless. The government does'nt care about us little people.

    And of course, I'm sure the angry town hall mobs will still mope and complain about everything. Fuckers!

  6. #51
    Elite Member
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Posts
    4,161

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Authority View Post
    I honestly feel hopeless. The government does'nt care about us little people.

    And of course, I'm sure the angry town hall mobs will still mope and complain about everything. Fuckers!
    That's the way I feel. I have a lot of personal shit going on right now and on top of that I have seen a whole new side to some of my "friends" since September. They are dropping like flies. I have one woman that I am friendly with from church who went to a healthcare rally, got in with some religious far right-wing whackjobs and now is posting shit about Big Brother and Kingdom Authority on Facebook, and she's also become a supporter of Sarah Palin WTF? I also made the mistake of commenting on her first FB posting about the rally and it set her off and she went on and on, commenting on her own comments. So now I have to avoid her and I don't even know how to talk to her without hurting her feelings because I think she's certifiable now.

    I never thought I could get so anxious over fucking politics.

  7. #52
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    10 miles from Pootie Tang
    Posts
    21,909

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by visitor42 View Post
    I agree that Obama and the Dems should be playing harder, but I'm also afraid that liberals and progresives backing away from Obama will only help the GOP. We saw this before with Clinton. Moreover, Obama has done a lot more in a way of a progressive aganda in his first seven months than any President since LBJ (if not before). he also has much more on his plate (the economic disaster, the cleaning up of Bush shit, etc.) than an incoming President usually faces. I'm not saying we should give up our agenda, but rather we should empower Obama when his agenda and ours match (and they usually do).
    I agree that Obama's coming under the same pressure that Clinton did with liberals & progressives. But that's moreso due to the fact that liberals forget that the Democratic Party is made up of liberals, moderates and conservatives. That's why the Dems regained power. The GOP shifted to the far-right while the Dems stayed more to the center. If the Dems were to shift to the far-left, they would be in the same boat as the GOP.

    I'm more of a moderate, and I agree that Obama has managed to get a lot done with all that he has on his plate. I'm still an Obama supporter and I'm not jumping on the 'failbama' train. But what's pissing me off is that when it comes to massive domestic policy (stimulus & healthcare) he seems to want to compromise with the GOP. But when it comes to other forms of domestic policy (cash for clunkers & the auto industry) and foreign policy he's more decisive and could care less about the GOP.

  8. #53
    Elite Member Fluffy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    5,600

    Thumbs up

    Sam Stein
    stein@huffingtonpost.com | HuffPost Reporting

    Labor Warns Dems: We'll Sit Out Election If You Oppose Public Plan

    One of the country's most prominent union officials is warning that big labor may pull its support from Democrats who don't fight for a government-run insurance plan.

    In an interview with the Huffington Post on Saturday, Richard Trumka, the secretary-treasurer and likely next president of the AFL-CIO, said his federation is drawing a line in the sand when it comes to a public option in the health care bill. Lawmakers who don't support the provision, he said, shouldn't take anything for granted.

    "We'll look at every one of their votes," Trumka said after his speech at the Netroots Nation convention. "If they're against the Employee Free Choice Act, if they're against health care for that reason, I think it'll be tough for them to get support from working people."

    Trumka's remarks were echoed privately by several other labor officials at the convention in Pittsburgh. In particular, the emerging Senate Finance Committee plan - which seems unlikely to contain a public option and could end up taxing pricey health care packages - seems almost guaranteed to incite the unions.

    "We'll oppose it," Trumka said, when asked about any bill that ends the tax exemption for employer coverage. "It's actually a stupid concept because if you tax those that have it to pay for those that don't, eventually those that have [benefits] won't. Then who do you ultimately tax?"

    Trumka's warning shots come at a time that the AFL-CIO is charting out a more aggressive campaign to target lawmakers who, as one official put it, "take labor's help but don't vote for labor's interests." Part of that process is to hold out the prospect of electoral consequences.

    Former DNC Chair, Howard Dean, likewise predicted that Democrats who vote against the public option would have to deal with a primary challenge.

    Meanwhile, a group of progressive members of the House of Representatives made it clear on Monday that they will not support a health care bill that doesn't include a government run option for insurance coverage.

    The AFL-CIO also intends to campaign against targets within the Republican Party and conservative media. In his speech on Saturday, Trumka called out "the entire cast at Fox News," for perpetuating fear and mistruths about the President's health care agenda. He also called Rush Limbaugh a "loudmouth," and decried the fake-grassroots movements being orchestrated in opposition to Democratic reform.

    "We are going to continue to mobilize and counter the lies and the myths that they're trying to create to defeat this," he told the Huffington Post. "The special interests, the pharmaceutical industry, the health care industry are so vested in the current system they'll so anything to keep it this way and we have a job to do there.

    "We're also going to keep politicians strong so that they don't listen to the moneymen and continue to erode away or negotiate away a program [so much that it] ultimately becomes useless. Right now, without a public option [reform] becomes useless. It won't change the current system."
    Labor Warns Dems: We'll Sit Out Election If You Oppose Public Plan

  9. #54
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In WhoreLand fucking your MOM
    Posts
    55,372

    Default

    Good. Fucking revolt!
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  10. #55
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    10 miles from Pootie Tang
    Posts
    21,909

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    I've gotten so used to your avvie, how am I supposed to go on without seeing your beer mug?
    I've gotten used to it, too. I was thinking about what else to change it to, but I couldn't think of anything. So, I guess it's staying...for now.

  11. #56
    Elite Member Mr. Authority's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Royal Oak,MI
    Posts
    4,631

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by hotncmom View Post
    That's the way I feel. I have a lot of personal shit going on right now and on top of that I have seen a whole new side to some of my "friends" since September. They are dropping like flies. I have one woman that I am friendly with from church who went to a healthcare rally, got in with some religious far right-wing whackjobs and now is posting shit about Big Brother and Kingdom Authority on Facebook, and she's also become a supporter of Sarah Palin WTF? I also made the mistake of commenting on her first FB posting about the rally and it set her off and she went on and on, commenting on her own comments. So now I have to avoid her and I don't even know how to talk to her without hurting her feelings because I think she's certifiable now.

    I never thought I could get so anxious over fucking politics.
    Pretty much in the same boat that you're in. My republican co-worker (whom I have no problem talking about because I hate him) pretty much ignores me at this point. Not that I care because we never agreed on anything; (plus I'm hopefully moving on into a career in art instead of my part-time PT job). However he still rubs it in that Obama is a "failure" and rants about stupid shit. I hate his guts just as much as his mash potato face.

    Whew.

    Anyways, I hope something can be domestic can be done by the Obama admistration. That's what's needed now. For the GOP and it's ilk; just fuck off.

  12. #57
    Elite Member Fluffy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    5,600

    Default OMG! Did the Dems' balls finally drop?

    August 19, 2009
    Democrats Seem Set to Go Alone on a Health Bill

    By CARL HULSE and JEFF ZELENY

    WASHINGTON — Given hardening Republican opposition to Congressional health care proposals, Democrats now say they see little chance of the minority’s cooperation in approving any overhaul, and are increasingly focused on drawing support for a final plan from within their own ranks.

    Top Democrats said Tuesday that their go-it-alone view was being shaped by what they saw as Republicans’ purposely strident tone against health care legislation during this month’s Congressional recess, as well as remarks by leading Republicans that current proposals were flawed beyond repair.

    Rahm Emanuel, the White House chief of staff, said the heated opposition was evidence that Republicans had made a political calculation to draw a line against any health care changes, the latest in a string of major administration proposals that Republicans have opposed.

    “The Republican leadership,” Mr. Emanuel said, “has made a strategic decision that defeating President Obama’s health care proposal is more important for their political goals than solving the health insurance problems that Americans face every day.”

    The Democratic shift may not make producing a final bill much easier. The party must still reconcile the views of moderate and conservative Democrats worried about the cost and scope of the legislation with those of more liberal lawmakers determined to win a government-run insurance option to compete with private insurers.

    On the other hand, such a change could alter the dynamic of talks surrounding health care legislation, and even change the substance of a final bill. With no need to negotiate with Republicans, Democrats might be better able to move more quickly, relying on their large majorities in both houses.

    Democratic senators might feel more empowered, for example, to define the authority of the nonprofit insurance cooperatives that are emerging as an alternative to a public insurance plan.

    Republicans have used the Congressional break to dig in hard against the overhaul outline drawn by Democrats. The Senate’s No. 2 Republican, Jon Kyl of Arizona, is the latest to weigh in strongly, saying Tuesday that the public response lawmakers were seeing over the summer break should persuade Democrats to scrap their approach and start over.

    “I think it is safe to say there are a huge number of big issues that people have,” Mr. Kyl told reporters in a conference call from Arizona. “There is no way that Republicans are going to support a trillion-dollar-plus bill.”

    The White House has also interpreted critical comments by Senator Charles E. Grassley of Iowa, the top Republican negotiator in a crucial Finance Committee effort to reach a bipartisan compromise, as a sign that there is little hope of reaching a deal politically acceptable to both parties.

    Mr. Grassley, who is facing the possibility of a Republican primary challenge next year, has gotten an earful in traveling around his home state. At one gathering last week, in a city park in the central Iowa town of Adel, a man rose from the crowd and urged him to “stand up and fight” the Democratic plans. If he does not, the man yelled, “we will vote you out!”

    The White House, carefully following Mr. Grassley’s activities, presumed he was no longer interested in negotiating with Democrats after he initially made no effort to debunk misinformation that the legislation could lead to “death panels” empowered to judge who would receive care.

    Citing a packed schedule, Mr. Grassley has also put off plans for the bipartisan group of Finance Committee negotiators to meet in either Iowa or Maine, the home of another Republican member of the group, Senator Olympia J. Snowe, before Congress resumes.

    Further, Mr. Grassley said this week that he would vote against a bill unless it had wide support from Republicans, even if it included all the provisions he wanted. “I am negotiating for Republicans,” he told MSNBC.

    In an interview on Tuesday, Mr. Grassley said he had simply been repeating earlier comments that he would not support a measure that did not have significant Republican support. He said that raucous town-hall-style meetings might have made the job of reaching a compromise harder, but that he had not given up.

    “It may be more difficult than it was before,” he said. “I am intent on talking. I am intent on seeing what we can do.”

    Administration officials, who maintain that Republicans are badly mischaracterizing the legislation that has emerged from three House committees and the Senate health committee, said they had hoped to achieve some level of bipartisan support. But they are becoming increasingly convinced that they will instead have to navigate the complicated politics among varying Democratic factions.

    The officials said the White House hoped to make the case to the American people that it was Republicans who had abandoned the effort at bipartisanship. Republicans countered by saying that they simply opposed the legislation and that the public outcry had validated their view and solidified their opposition.

    This week’s careful administration maneuvering on whether a public insurance option was an essential element of any final bill was seemingly part of the new White House effort to find consensus among Democrats, since the public plan has been resisted by moderate and conservative Democrats who could be crucial to winning the votes for passage if no Republicans are on board.

    For the second time in two days, Mr. Obama did not mention health care on Tuesday, a marked departure from the aggressive public relations campaign he mounted in July and early August. The White House is striving to stay out of the fray, aides said, until the president can get away on vacation this weekend.

    Even as the administration showed some flexibility, angering liberal Democrats who consider a public plan essential, Republicans turned their attacks from the public option to the health care cooperative idea being promoted by some Senate Democrats.

    In what Democrats regarded as further evidence that Republicans were not serious about negotiating, Mr. Kyl and Representative Eric Cantor of Virginia, the second-ranking House Republican, described a co-op as a public option carrying another name.

    The continuing opposition was noted Tuesday by Robert Gibbs, the White House spokesman, who said of Republicans that at best “only a handful seem interested in the type of comprehensive reform that so many people believe is necessary to ensure the principles and the goals that the president has laid out.”
    http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/19/he.../19repubs.html

    • AUGUST 19, 2009
    White House Rethinks How It Sells Health Overhaul

    More Emotional Appeal May Surface as Obama's Backers Criticize Him for Focusing on Regulatory Details Instead of Lofty Themes

    By JONATHAN WEISMAN

    WASHINGTON -- President Barack Obama, trying to regain control of the health-care debate, will likely shift his pitch in September, White House and Democratic officials said, as he faces pressure from supporters to talk more about the moral imperative to provide health insurance to all Americans.

    The rethinking comes amid a struggle by the White House to clarify its view on a public insurance plan, which liberals see as a critical part of a health overhaul. Health and Human Services Secretary Kathleen Sebelius said Sunday that a public plan isn't the "essential element" of a health bill, prompting sharp words from liberal groups.

    Associated Press Audience members react to an answer from Democratic Rep. Dan Boren during a town-hall meeting on health care in Muskogee, Okla., on Tuesday. White House officials concede that the anger that has surfaced in town-hall meetings on TV is shifting the debate on the health overhaul.



    The muddle continued Tuesday, with White House spokesman Robert Gibbs facing repeated questioning at his news briefing on whether the position has changed and how the president will respond to the liberal concerns.

    Mr. Gibbs said the president's "preferred method" is the public plan "but he's certainly open to looking at and discussing other ideas." Ms. Sebelius insisted, "We continue to support the public option."

    She said her earlier comments on a CNN program got too much coverage. "Sunday must have been a very slow news day because here's the bottom line: Absolutely nothing has changed," Ms. Sebelius told an audience in Washington.

    While trying to placate liberals, White House officials also want to beat back broader public unease fed by critics' charges that the Democratic plan would cost too much and lead to excessive government control over family health-care decisions.

    The president is expected to present a more emotional appeal during a conference call Wednesday with liberal religious groups. A senior White House official said the message would be tailored to the groups' moral emphases, although he cautioned the president's message to religious groups may not herald a broader shift in themes.

    "This is such a technical issue, it's easy to get bogged down in the weeds," said Dan Nejfelt, a spokesman for Faith in Public Life, one of the groups scheduled for the Wednesday call. "It's important to have a voice saying, 'This is about right and wrong. This is about honoring faith.'"

    The president's revised health-care emphasis is likely to roll out as summer ends, when White House officials believe a broader group of voters will tune into the debate. The new strategy envisions speeches rather than informal town-hall meetings, said a senior official.

    The president began his health overhaul this year with talk about cutting health-care costs. In the past few weeks, Mr. Obama has focused his message on what his plan would do for Americans who already have medical insurance. He has said, for example, that his plan would cap out-of-pocket expenses and protect people from losing insurance if they get sick.

    A senior Republican Senate aide agreed that Mr. Obama's appeal to the pocketbook of middle-class Americans is likely the best strategy. He said, however, the president has failed to persuade Americans that they have something to gain. At this stage in the legislative process, he said, Americans will balance personal costs with ideals, and, he added, ideals almost always lose.

    Mr. Obama has come under criticism from supporters who say the president has been mired in the details of insurance regulation, rather than promoting the lofty themes that got him elected.

    A Democratic strategist said, "If you are going to sell something as big and monumental and transformative as health care, you cannot get small with it. You've got to be larger. You've got to call on the better angels out there."

    Obama campaign officials ridiculed Hillary Clinton's efforts to line up Washington power brokers behind her. Now, the White House boasts of having interest groups and the health-care industry -- from the AARP to drug makers to health insurers -- in support of health-care changes.

    White House officials disagree with much of the criticism, saying a campaign message is different from a legislative push that requires cooperating with interest groups. Democratic officials involved in the White House health-care push said details that can be ducked by a candidate can't be avoided by a president. They say the message on improving health insurance is getting through.

    But polling indicates the current White House tack is in trouble. An NBC News poll released Tuesday continues to show 41% supporting the way Mr. Obama is handling health-care reform; 47% disapprove. In April, 33% wanted a complete overhaul of the U.S. health-care system. That is down to 21%. Now, 31% said they want only minor changes, up from 21% in April.

    "Everybody's very nervous," a senior Democratic leadership aide in Congress said Tuesday. Members of Congress have been asking for the five words they need to explain the health-care imperative, the equivalent of "It's the economy, stupid," the aide said.

    White House officials concede that the anger that has surfaced in town-hall meetings and been broadcast on TV is shifting the debate. William McInturff, a pollster for The Wall Street Journal and NBC News, said most Americans in the political center aren't following the details of the legislation. They hear people yelling and see the president stymied even with a strongly Democratic Congress. Many conclude, he said, that something is wrong with the Obama health-care effort.
    White House Rethinks How It Sells Health Overhaul - WSJ.com

  13. #58
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In WhoreLand fucking your MOM
    Posts
    55,372

    Default

    *looks at them like they're stupid*

    Way to fuck it up, now you bitches have to start all over.

    How can so many supposed smart people be so fucking stoopit
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  14. #59
    Elite Member Fluffy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2007
    Posts
    5,600

    Default

    Start over?!?! If they're ditching the Republicans in negotiations for votes on the House and Senate floors, that's not starting over. Did you not notice it was the Republicans like Kyl saying the Dems should start over?

    [YOUTUBE]nYlZiWK2Iy8[/YOUTUBE]

  15. #60
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    10 miles from Pootie Tang
    Posts
    21,909

    Default

    The Democratic shift may not make producing a final bill much easier. The party must still reconcile the views of moderate and conservative Democrats worried about the cost and scope of the legislation with those of more liberal lawmakers determined to win a government-run insurance option to compete with private insurers.

    This is what the Dems should've been doing from the start. Going it alone and telling the GOP to fuck off. But, hey, better late than never.

    But, first and foremost, Obama and the Dems have to regain control of the message. Which they can do, if they really are done with this bipartisan crap with the GOP. And if they're going to change strategy at the end of the month they need to map that strategy out ahead of time so that everyone is on the same page, meaning a public option. If that means putting REAL pressure on the blue dog Dems, then so be it.

Page 4 of 6 FirstFirst 123456 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. White House may cave on health care public option
    By Fluffy in forum U.S. Politics and Issues
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: July 7th, 2009, 11:36 AM
  2. Replies: 1
    Last Post: July 5th, 2009, 10:20 AM
  3. Replies: 3
    Last Post: April 25th, 2009, 11:20 PM
  4. Replies: 8
    Last Post: April 21st, 2009, 01:25 PM
  5. Democrats cave utterly to Bush over Iraq..and he still says NO.
    By Grimmlok in forum U.S. Politics and Issues
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: May 19th, 2007, 01:44 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •