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Thread: Dems cave utterly on healthcare: no public option is on the table, no reform, zero.

  1. #16
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    ^Yep.

  2. #17
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Obama has said, publicly, all along that he wouldn't draw a line in the sand for a public option (a dumb move), which meant the possibility was ALWAYS there for the Dems to sacrifice the public option.

    What the White House is saying now is that they're even closer to caving just to be able to claim a healthcare win, which won't be a win for anyone but the GOP.

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    Gold Member mamaste's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    and again, if they're talking about it publicly it's already been decided by those who control the process. The rest is window dressing.
    Right now, I'm still getting emails to push Congress to include a public option. They're being targeted in their home states.

    You say that 70% of the country approve of a public option. The problem is Congress is not hearing that in the media or from their consituents. Sebelius is trying to get the discussion off of "socialist healthcare" and back to the overall issue of reform. Those nutjobs are railroading the entire thing and unless people speak up, they'll win. Saying it's been dropped gives us a good excuse to complain and do nothing, but it's our own fault for not challenging the nutters screaming, "SOCIALISM."

  4. #19
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Oh gimme a freaking break, Obama and his fools read the same damn polls the rest of the country does. He knows what the public wants, so does Congress and so does the Senate.

    Barry moved in and a month later had Pharma bigwigs and insurance drones coming and going from the white house. There was never going to BE any meaningful reform that cut into corporate interests. He caved to them, or simply played the public.

    Look at the track record: bailouts for the auto industry with nary a plan to prove why they should have one, bailouts for the bankers, and all headed by the very same bankers who created the mess and not once IOTA of new regulation or reform there, and now healthcare.. bills put together by a committee of corporately owned blue dogs to 'reform' healthcare despite being on the clock of the very interests they're supposed to reform.

    Doesn't take a freaking genius to work this shit out. What a fraud.
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  5. #20
    Gold Member mamaste's Avatar
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    Americans have to stand up and take responsibility for themselves. Americans need to realize that voting then complaining about the choice you made is NOT being politically active.

    Here is a summary of the bill:

    This is the House Democrats' big health care reform bill. Broadly, it seeks to expand health care coverage to the approximately 40 million Americans who are currently uninsured by lowering the cost of health care and making the system more efficient. To that end, it includes a new government-run insurance plan to compete with the private companies, a requirement that all Americans have health insurance, a prohibition on denying coverage because of pre-existing conditions and, to pay for it all, a surtax on households with an income above $350,000. A more detailed summary of the bill by the House Committee on Education and Labor can be read here (four-page .pdf).
    If passed, it actually cuts into insurance company profits. I don't understand how pharmacuetical companies figure into this. They get paid no matter what.

    ETA: The "socialist" healthcare nuts are speaking louder than anyone else. As I pointed out in another thread, some of these people have been hired by insurance companies. They are dominating the discussion and the media coverage. They are influencing the polls, too. We have got to speak louder than them to be heard. That is the bottom line.

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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Face facts. The dems sold out.

    They have a majority, and could put the bill with the public option through if they wanted. They don't want to. Too much money from the insurance and big pharma lobbies would be lost.

    The dems have control of the House, the Senate, and the White House, and this is being spun as 'bowing to republican pressure'. Horseshit. That would be pressure from the republican party that's irrelevant and dying? Pressure from a party that doesn't have enough seats in congress to stop the dems?

    Real reform isn't going to happen. The public option is out, the tax on the wealthy to help pay for costs incurred is out, the ability of government to bargain with Pharma on drug prices is out, the proposed time limitations of patents on meds is out.....

    It's going to be a bullshit bill with these few benefits: insurance co's won't be able to deny you for pre-existing illness, they won't be able to drop you arbitrarily, and a there will be a very small subsidy for the working poor- so small they'll barely notice it.
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    It's going to be a bullshit bill with these few benefits: insurance co's won't be able to deny you for pre-existing illness, they won't be able to drop you arbitrarily, and a there will be a very small subsidy for the working poor- so small they'll barely notice it.
    Those are fairly substantial acheivements, and the most since Medicare. That would be far more than the Clintons got.

  8. #23
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    ^^
    I would disagree on these being substantial achievements. The majority of people seem to be concerned with the cost of insurance and treatment. That was the true battle. These little sops to the masses will not have that big of an impact. 'Here's a little bone, John Q. Public, so you'll be distracted from the fact that you've been sold down the river.'

    The public option was already a compromise from single payer, and now we're hearing that even that is gone. This is not real reform. Shiny wrapping, bows and ribbons, but an empty box.

    If they want to do away with public option, then the insurance industry needs to be heavily regulated, like in Holland. These two little bullshit requirements do next to nothing.
    It's no longer a dog whistle, it's a fucking trombone


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  9. #24
    Elite Member Fluffy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mamaste View Post
    Americans have to stand up and take responsibility for themselves. Americans need to realize that voting then complaining about the choice you made is NOT being politically active.

    ETA: The "socialist" healthcare nuts are speaking louder than anyone else. As I pointed out in another thread, some of these people have been hired by insurance companies. They are dominating the discussion and the media coverage. They are influencing the polls, too. We have got to speak louder than them to be heard. That is the bottom line.
    So how many Americans who want a public option will actually contact their representative, senators or the White House to demand a public option? Not many. Probably not even many on this board because bitching about it is easier that taking the time to tell your representative, senators and president that they will NOT have your vote the next time around if they do not vote for a bill with a strong public option? That's the difference between the right-wing supporters and everyone else. The right-wing will mobilize to get what they want done and will keep the pressure on. I remember listening to the Thom Hartmann show a month or so ago where he stated that the comments coming into the White House comment line was 10-1 against health reform including a public option. So really, those who actually want a public option need to get off their ass and call the White House and their representatives.

  10. #25
    Gold Member mamaste's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    So how many Americans who want a public option will actually contact their representative, senators or the White House to demand a public option? Not many. Probably not even many on this board because bitching about it is easier that taking the time to tell your representative, senators and president that they will NOT have your vote the next time around if they do not vote for a bill with a strong public option? That's the difference between the right-wing supporters and everyone else. The right-wing will mobilize to get what they want done and will keep the pressure on. I remember listening to the Thom Hartmann show a month or so ago where he stated that the comments coming into the White House comment line was 10-1 against health reform including a public option. So really, those who actually want a public option need to get off their ass and call the White House and their representatives.
    Excellent post, Fluffy. I agree with every single word.

  11. #26
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    So how many Americans who want a public option will actually contact their representative, senators or the White House to demand a public option? Not many. Probably not even many on this board because bitching about it is easier that taking the time to tell your representative, senators and president that they will NOT have your vote the next time around if they do not vote for a bill with a strong public option? That's the difference between the right-wing supporters and everyone else. The right-wing will mobilize to get what they want done and will keep the pressure on. I remember listening to the Thom Hartmann show a month or so ago where he stated that the comments coming into the White House comment line was 10-1 against health reform including a public option. So really, those who actually want a public option need to get off their ass and call the White House and their representatives.
    Agreed. People need to get off their asses and make their voices heard. I sent my e-mail off to the White House, not that I think it'll make a difference. But, hey, who knows?:

    President Obama,
    Let me start by saying that I voted for you in November, and I have agreed with much of what you have done as president. I am happy that both you and the Democrats are pushing for much-needed healthcare reform. But I recently heard that the Democrats may consider dropping the public option just to secure a healthcare victory. Sir, I believe that would be a HUGE mistake. Since the polls show that the majority of the American people are in favor of a public option, then the Democrats should heed those calls. Because any healthcare reform that passes, without a public option, will not be viewed as a victory by the Democratic base.

    Any healthcare reform, without a public option, is not true reform, and the only people who will be able to declare a real victory are the Republicans and the insurance companies. Right now, the Democrats are on the RIGHT side of history by trying to push real reform, and that includes the public option.

    Those on the far-right will call any reform 'socialism,' public option or not. But there are many people, Democrat, Republican & Independent, who are in favor of a public option, but are anxious about it because of a lack of real details. President Obama, both you and the other Democrats, must take back control of the message and calm some of those fears by providing concise details on what reform will entail.

    The Democrats have a filibuster-proof majority in Congress, as well as the White House. But what good does that do if the Democrats continue to bow to the whims of the GOP? Now, while I am all for real bipartisanship, in this case it will not work. Republicans don't want to reach a healthcare compromise. They want to stop reform completely. And since the GOP is not the party in power, the Democrats should focus their energies on bringing the 'blue dogs' into line.

    If that means telling the 'blue dogs' that they will not get ANY support from the DNC when they are up for re-election, then so be it. In the battle for healthcare reform, the GOP and the 'blue dogs' have taken the gloves off, it's time for you to do the same thing, President Obama and bring about that 'change we can believe in.'

  12. #27
    Elite Member Mivvi21's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fluffy View Post
    So how many Americans who want a public option will actually contact their representative, senators or the White House to demand a public option? Not many. Probably not even many on this board because bitching about it is easier that taking the time to tell your representative, senators and president that they will NOT have your vote the next time around if they do not vote for a bill with a strong public option? That's the difference between the right-wing supporters and everyone else. The right-wing will mobilize to get what they want done and will keep the pressure on. I remember listening to the Thom Hartmann show a month or so ago where he stated that the comments coming into the White House comment line was 10-1 against health reform including a public option. So really, those who actually want a public option need to get off their ass and call the White House and their representatives.
    I for one have contacted not only the white house,but also my state reps as well. I also intend to contact my state senators. People who really want healthcare reform should be doing everything they can in order to get it done. I know I am.

  13. #28
    Gold Member mamaste's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    Agreed. People need to get off their asses and make their voices heard. I sent my e-mail off to the White House, not that I think it'll make a difference. But, hey, who knows?:

    President Obama,
    Let me start by saying that I voted for you in November, and I have agreed with much of what you have done as president. I am happy that both you and the Democrats are pushing for much-needed healthcare reform. But I recently heard that the Democrats may consider dropping the public option just to secure a healthcare victory. Sir, I believe that would be a HUGE mistake. Since the polls show that the majority of the American people are in favor of a public option, then the Democrats should heed those calls. Because any healthcare reform that passes, without a public option, will not be viewed as a victory by the Democratic base.

    Any healthcare reform, without a public option, is not true reform, and the only people who will be able to declare a real victory are the Republicans and the insurance companies. Right now, the Democrats are on the RIGHT side of history by trying to push real reform, and that includes the public option.

    Those on the far-right will call any reform 'socialism,' public option or not. But there are many people, Democrat, Republican & Independent, who are in favor of a public option, but are anxious about it because of a lack of real details. President Obama, both you and the other Democrats, must take back control of the message and calm some of those fears by providing concise details on what reform will entail.

    The Democrats have a filibuster-proof majority in Congress, as well as the White House. But what good does that do if the Democrats continue to bow to the whims of the GOP? Now, while I am all for real bipartisanship, in this case it will not work. Republicans don't want to reach a healthcare compromise. They want to stop reform completely. And since the GOP is not the party in power, the Democrats should focus their energies on bringing the 'blue dogs' into line.

    If that means telling the 'blue dogs' that they will not get ANY support from the DNC when they are up for re-election, then so be it. In the battle for healthcare reform, the GOP and the 'blue dogs' have taken the gloves off, it's time for you to do the same thing, President Obama and bring about that 'change we can believe in.'
    That is such a good email, King. I really love it. Whether it helps or not, at least you did something.

    In the End, we will remember not the words of our enemies, but the silence of our friends. -- MLK

  14. #29
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Thanks, Mamaste. There were other things I wanted to add, but it was already turning into War & Peace.

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    Elite Member Mr. Authority's Avatar
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    I also contacted my state rep and governor, saying that this caving in is bullshit. I guess a loud mob of paid insurers from the healthy insurance industry has more say than 70% of the public. Maybe I should clone myself and have my dopplegangers yell and scream to be heard. Then the government might hear me then.

    Very dissapointed in the Dems, they fucked up something fool-proof yet AGAIN!

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