Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast
Results 16 to 30 of 44

Thread: DADT Vote Coming This Week

  1. #16
    Friend of Gossip Rocks! buttmunch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Uranus
    Posts
    31,884

    Default

    Although I read it slightly differently I'm with you if you lead the way. I wish Clinton had never given us this horse shit in the first place but again, it was a compromise. Dems always end up compromising in a way repugs never do. I don't know if it's a lack of balls or a sense of fairness.
    'Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.' Ben Franklin

    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
    --Sinclair Lewis

  2. #17
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In WhoreLand fucking your MOM
    Posts
    55,359

    Default

    Lack of balls, there is usually nothing at all "fair" in the compromise they roll over for.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  3. #18
    Friend of Gossip Rocks! buttmunch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Uranus
    Posts
    31,884

    Default

    I meant fair in the sense of including everyone in the discussion, even the asshats, and listening to their point of view. repugs don't bother, dems bother too often. I don't know what the solution is other than everyone from a state with a congressional member prepared to vote against the repeal should contact them with their displeasure, although be careful how often or how much; you could be indicted for harrassment.
    'Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.' Ben Franklin

    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
    --Sinclair Lewis

  4. #19
    Hit By Ban Bus!
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Back of Beyond
    Posts
    11,081

    Default

    Some factions do not need to be included in the discussions. I reckon Lyndon Johnson didn't need any input from the KKK on the Civil Rights Act.

  5. #20
    Friend of Gossip Rocks! buttmunch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Uranus
    Posts
    31,884

    Default

    ^^Fair enough but can we lump people who can accept gays in most situations in life but can't accept them in the military with the KKK? I'm talking about people like my uncle who is pretty liberal for an old guy, well educated and a big supporter of the Dems. Yet he can't quite square the idea of gays in the military with his own military experience during WWII. Certainly there were gays in the military then but it wasn't talked about and I think he's most comfortable with that. He's wrong, obviously, but he's not a foaming at the mouth homophobe either. He's just old school and thinks this sort of stuff shouldn't be talked about at all. This is a man with a lesbian daughter, by the way.
    'Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.' Ben Franklin

    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
    --Sinclair Lewis

  6. #21
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In WhoreLand fucking your MOM
    Posts
    55,359

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by buttmunch View Post
    ^^Fair enough but can we lump people who can accept gays in most situations in life but can't accept them in the military with the KKK?
    Yes, of course. Either you accept gays (and blacks) utterly, or you're a bigot. That's how it works.

    Otherwise, it's like saying "Well this person can accept blacks in most situations (on the street, working menial jobs) but can't accept them as a manager or drinking from the same fountain".

    Doesn't sound very pretty, does it.


    I'm talking about people like my uncle who is pretty liberal for an old guy, well educated and a big supporter of the Dems. Yet he can't quite square the idea of gays in the military with his own military experience during WWII.
    Gays were there the entire time.

    Certainly there were gays in the military then but it wasn't talked about and I think he's most comfortable with that.
    What he's "most comfortable" with is, frankly, irrelevant. Lots of people were "not comfortable" about racially integrating the forces but they were told to get the fuck over it and that was that.

    He's wrong, obviously, but he's not a foaming at the mouth homophobe either. He's just old school and thinks this sort of stuff shouldn't be talked about at all. This is a man with a lesbian daughter, by the way.
    See, that's the thing. It won't be "talked about" any more than straight soldiers "talk about" their own personal lives. If that's still too much, well frankly, too bad. Just like racially integrating the forces, it's time to get the fuck over it LOL
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  7. #22
    Hit By Ban Bus!
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    Back of Beyond
    Posts
    11,081

    Default

    What he's "most comfortable" with is, frankly, irrelevant. Lots of people were "not comfortable" about racially integrating the forces but they were told to get the fuck over it and that was that.


    Ignorance should never be catered to under any circumstances. Change and progress always has to be forced upon the recalcitrant and more often than not, once the changes are made people adapt and go on with their lives.
    Last edited by Sasha; May 27th, 2010 at 12:20 PM.

  8. #23
    Friend of Gossip Rocks! buttmunch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Uranus
    Posts
    31,884

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    Yes, of course. Either you accept gays (and blacks) utterly, or you're a bigot. That's how it works.

    Otherwise, it's like saying "Well this person can accept blacks in most situations (on the street, working menial jobs) but can't accept them as a manager or drinking from the same fountain".

    Doesn't sound very pretty, does it.




    Gays were there the entire time.



    What he's "most comfortable" with is, frankly, irrelevant. Lots of people were "not comfortable" about racially integrating the forces but they were told to get the fuck over it and that was that.



    See, that's the thing. It won't be "talked about" any more than straight soldiers "talk about" their own personal lives. If that's still too much, well frankly, too bad. Just like racially integrating the forces, it's time to get the fuck over it LOL

    Ok, fair points. But the fact is that you have any number of people who are liberal on most points but this one is a tough one for them. I say lead them gently to the light, don't bash them over the head. Or, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar. At the end of the day the military brass can't, consitutionally, make policy, so they can give their recommendations but it's up to the government to make policy. And that, in this instance, means Congress.
    'Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.' Ben Franklin

    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
    --Sinclair Lewis

  9. #24
    Elite Member Mel1973's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2006
    Location
    Cuntopia
    Posts
    42,983

    Default

    But the fact is that the gays are in the military. They are just expected to hide it. They fight and die just like everyone else and deserve the same damn rights. Homophobes sleep next to the gays and they aren't being raped to death by the mos and that wouldn't change if DADT went the hell away.
    Kill him.
    Kill her.
    Kill It.
    Kill everything... that IS the solution!
    П(_)П
    twitchy molests my signature!

  10. #25
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In WhoreLand fucking your MOM
    Posts
    55,359

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by buttmunch View Post
    Ok, fair points. But the fact is that you have any number of people who are liberal on most points but this one is a tough one for them.
    yes, but they're also military. What they think about policy is irrelevant. They are to follow orders. If they don't, then it's rank insubordination and they can be drummed out.

    I say lead them gently to the light, don't bash them over the head. Or, you catch more flies with honey than with vinegar.
    Were racists lead gently to the light, or plied with honey? No. An order came down from on high.. "This is how it is. Obey." and it was obeyed. There's no difference.

    At the end of the day the military brass can't, consitutionally, make policy, so they can give their recommendations but it's up to the government to make policy. And that, in this instance, means Congress.
    The government is trying to cede that power TO the Pentagon on this issue. Mullens has already said it doesn't matter if congress changes the law or not, if this bill goes through the Pentagon will have sole discretion on whether to implement it or not.

    THAT is the problem.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  11. #26
    Friend of Gossip Rocks! buttmunch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Uranus
    Posts
    31,884

    Default

    Grimm and Mel, you both make very good points and I would love to address them but I'm several glasses in and can't be as coherent as I'd like so let me get back to you tomorrow. But let me say that I don't think it's black and white. I look at the draught years of Bush, where he actively worked against gays and I'm so bloody happy that the Prez is even adressing it. And I look at Clinton, who slightly attempted to allow gays to serve in the military without having to hide their sexuality and the result of that is what we have today. I hate that Obama is handed all these things and if he doesn't sort them out within his first year he's the fucking devil. As far as I see it he's addressed more Issues that I consider important in his first year than Bush and Clinton (let's not even talk about Bush I and Reagan) did in their eaight years. I think people had such high expectations and don't want to accept that he can't make everything happen at once. I'm willing to wait it out because I do believe he is a good man with good intentions. I may be naive but I'm willing to stick it out for awhile.

    I'll write mroe properly on this tomorrow. YOu guys bring up very good points and I think the reason I love this place is that we actually discuss this stuff. So different from my regular life.
    'Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.' Ben Franklin

    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
    --Sinclair Lewis

  12. #27
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In WhoreLand fucking your MOM
    Posts
    55,359

    Default

    I swear to god, if you bring up the "magic wand" thing as well as the "full plate" thing one more time, ONE MORE TIME MISSY, I'm going to drown you in that bottle of wine!

    EDIT: i realize that as deaths go for you, it's not exactly a bad one
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  13. #28
    Friend of Gossip Rocks! buttmunch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Uranus
    Posts
    31,884

    Default

    But you realize that Obama can't repeal this on his own, right? It was an act of Congress, therefore it can only be repealed by Congress. Not enough votes? It ain't going to happen. And I didn't bring up he has 'so much on his plate'. I brought up that in his first year he's addressed far more than his predecessors. Very different thing and think about that a bit.

    And you touch my box of wine (no bottle here) you will feel the wrath of the butt.
    'Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.' Ben Franklin

    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
    --Sinclair Lewis

  14. #29
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    In WhoreLand fucking your MOM
    Posts
    55,359

    Default

    it's not a matter of him repealing it on his own, as i've said countless times.

    *sigh*

    Go drink. Have some for me, I need it.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  15. #30
    Friend of Gossip Rocks! buttmunch's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2005
    Location
    Uranus
    Posts
    31,884

    Default

    So what are you saying if it's not a matter of him repealing it on his own? He can't just execute an executive order on this. He needs Congress behind him. And they're not. So what's the solution?

    And yes, I'm drinking for two tonight (you and me, grimm). Mr but is out at an 'event' so I'm home with the heathens and thankfully they're asleep.
    'Those who sacrifice liberty for security deserve neither.' Ben Franklin

    "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying the cross."
    --Sinclair Lewis

Page 2 of 3 FirstFirst 123 LastLast

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Is the Defense Department Blocking the DADT Vote?
    By witchcurlgirl in forum U.S. Politics and Issues
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: April 20th, 2010, 09:55 AM
  2. Army Backtracks On Relaxing 'DADT' Enforcement
    By witchcurlgirl in forum U.S. Politics and Issues
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: April 2nd, 2010, 08:53 AM
  3. DADT Repeal Falling Victim to Foot Dragging
    By witchcurlgirl in forum U.S. Politics and Issues
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: March 24th, 2010, 10:48 AM
  4. Replies: 2
    Last Post: February 13th, 2010, 11:05 AM
  5. 2008 General Election will make history: Vote early, Vote NOW!
    By lurkur in forum U.S. Politics and Issues
    Replies: 5
    Last Post: October 23rd, 2008, 02:33 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •