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Thread: Collateral damage: A young casualty of Prop 8

  1. #16
    Elite Member RevellingInSane's Avatar
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    ^^I agree Dahli.

    The Catholic Church did what it had to do when she decided to become a visible opponent to the church doctrine, even if the action was unintentional. Had she not have been publicly speaking out against the proposition, I can't see the school having removed her. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the school officials face disciplinary actions for even allowing her to be as active as she was.

    I don't understand why this is even in the news. When all is said and done, she is the reason her child is suffering.



  2. #17
    Gold Member ymeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by celeb_2006 View Post
    The Mommy Files : Collateral damage: A young casualty of Prop 8


    So McGehee and her wife are on the hunt for a new school for Sebastian, not an easy task midyear. She says it has been really hard on Sebastian, who loved his school, his friends, his teachers. "One day he said to me, 'I don't care if you're president Mommy,' I just want to be back at school," McGehee says. "I accepted the role as president for him and to help his school. The question that haunts me now is, had I not accepted this position would I have been left alone? Either way, he's the human casualty in all of this."

    I have mixed feelings about this. On the one hand, at least this is one kid they won't be preying on. Then there's Luke 17:2, "It were better for him that a millstone were hanged about his neck, and he cast into the sea, than that he should offend one of these little ones"...but I know that biblical stuff is considered a technicality most of the time when it comes to these major religious corporations. Lastly, apparently no one is freaking dead, which is what I thought of when I read the title of this thread, another gay person had been killed, so I'm relieved, though sad for the little guy. There have been a few incidents in my town with people who have challenged the schools on religious things in the curriculum and their children have been harassed and targeted, really embarassing that adults would hurt children like this over such garbage, but it happens all the time.

  3. #18
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Seems to me she pushed it too far by being too open.
    *feels his hackles rise*

    Yes, back to the closet with her. How dare she try and live a normal life.

    *urge to slap rising*
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  4. #19
    Elite Member RevellingInSane's Avatar
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    She has every right to be vocal for what she believes in. The church has every right to remove her for violating its doctrine publicly.

    Acceptance and tolerance are fine, as long as it doesn't infringe on others. Expecting the church to turn a blind eye to a visible, openly gay board member is ridiculous and arrogant.

    There is no discernible discrimination here. People are fired all the time for behavior which threatens the standing of a company. How is this different from that?



  5. #20
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Has her child violated any "church doctrine" that would warrant his removal?

    No.

    His parents may have, but they aren't the ones enrolled in his school. They don't sit in class.

    Kicking a kid out because his parents, who are not enrolled, life a life that is contrary to "church doctrine" seems a bit like shooting the messenger.

    Also, being gay threatens the church? Really? So they've been threatened since the dawn of time by gay people and as yet has stood and even backed gay people into a corner?

    Awfully jumpy for such an organization, no?
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  6. #21
    Elite Member RevellingInSane's Avatar
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    You obviously ignored some important information in the article or edited it in your own mind to fit your views.

    Who kicked the child out? The mother chose to remove him from the school because she was removed from her post and rightfully so.

    Being gay isn't a threat to the church, as we saw. If her sexual orientation had been a threat, they would have hesitated to kick her out. She's gone isn't she?

    Churches have a right to their beliefs and to remove any one who commits acts which conflict with those beliefs. If gay rights include forcing churches to change their doctrine, then there is a problem.

    Any church with a negative view of homosexuality should be forced to alter their foundation? Think not. That is going too far.



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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    *feels his hackles rise*

    Yes, back to the closet with her. How dare she try and live a normal life.

    *urge to slap rising*

    I can understand where you are coming from. Its unfair that this is where we live in the world that people can't be open about what is perfectly normal and beautiful in their lives. So I can understand that hackle rise. However reality is what it is. She's going to do what she needs to do in order to validate her life and there's a power and dignity to that. Yet then why is she stunned that this happened? That's what I'm not understanding. The Catholic Church schools, especially the school system, is notoriously narrow minded. Mostly because of the dollar and the wanning enrollment numbers. If a parent is sending their child to religious school in order to avoid having to deal with mainstream values that they believe are detrimental towards their children then they are going to be really angry that the head of the PTA is out at rallies trashing their religious beliefs no? Its just kinda dumb in a way for the woman to be suprised by this. Not that I agree with the school, I'm just not sure what she expected. I'm actually surprised that they were as lenient as they were in the first place.

  8. #23
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    No, any church that insists on being bigoted should be razed to the ground. I'll be the first one there with a blazing torch.

    Again, I cite the fact that 'church doctrine' was used to justify slavery. Was doing away with that "going too far" ?

    No, it wasn't.

    This is no different, despite protestations to the contrary from the bigots themselves.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  9. #24
    Elite Member Sweetie's Avatar
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    The slavery referenced in the Bible was not the slavery that we saw in our lifetime. It was speaking of servants and such. Not of African-American's being tortured and killed my their Masters.
    It was a different day and age back then. That's not a good argument for the cause.

  10. #25
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Indentured slavery is indentured slavery. Stoning to death is as bad as being hung from a tree if you ran from the plantation.

    It's a great argument against religion being used to justify oppression, and has been used for a long-ass time.
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    No, any church that insists on being bigoted should be razed to the ground. I'll be the first one there with a blazing torch.

    Again, I cite the fact that 'church doctrine' was used to justify slavery. Was doing away with that "going too far" ?

    No, it wasn't.

    This is no different, despite protestations to the contrary from the bigots themselves.

    No I agree with you. I think Revelling and I are just curious why she's so put off by what happened? In reality they gave her a lot more leeway than most people get in the church. Some of my teaching friends tried to get jobs in Catholic Schools and were denied positions for being divorced. When you enroll in some of these schools its no joke, its religious. Like one school I know of has the parents fill out a "testimonial" documenting their personal relationship with Jesus. Its easy to forget that these people take these beliefs very seriously. I don't, you don't but they do. They really believe it. Its scary.

  12. #27
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    Yeahhh up here a friend worked in the salvation army call center and got axed for being a mo.. they fall into the gray area of being a religiously funded business, so .... yeah..

    he probably could have sued..
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

  13. #28
    Elite Member RevellingInSane's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    No, any church that insists on being bigoted should be razed to the ground. I'll be the first one there with a blazing torch.

    Again, I cite the fact that 'church doctrine' was used to justify slavery. Was doing away with that "going too far" ?

    No, it wasn't.

    This is no different, despite protestations to the contrary from the bigots themselves.
    What beliefs constitutes bigotry? Any that are in direct conflict with the way you live your life? No one gets to do whatever they want all the time. Religious people have the right to worship as they see fit without groups badgering them because their beliefs are polar opposites.

    You keep calling for groups to be taken out. When people say the same about gays, all hell breaks loose. What makes it ok for you to do it? Being gay?

    Quote Originally Posted by Grimmlok View Post
    Indentured slavery is indentured slavery. Stoning to death is as bad as being hung from a tree if you ran from the plantation.

    It's a great argument against religion being used to justify oppression, and has been used for a long-ass time.
    The slavery context was not the same. Even if it were, slavery has absolutely nothing to do with homosexuality.

    You conveniently forget what happened when the Egyptians took slaves, since you want to throw out bible references. As pointed out above, slavery of Africans and the slavery in the bible you are attempting to use were not the same. The most similar situation in the Bible ended with the slave masters being punished.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dahli View Post
    No I agree with you. I think Revelling and I are just curious why she's so put off by what happened? In reality they gave her a lot more leeway than most people get in the church. Some of my teaching friends tried to get jobs in Catholic Schools and were denied positions for being divorced. When you enroll in some of these schools its no joke, its religious. Like one school I know of has the parents fill out a "testimonial" documenting their personal relationship with Jesus. Its easy to forget that these people take these beliefs very seriously. I don't, you don't but they do. They really believe it. Its scary.
    That is exactly what I am wondering. It's like a DEA agent speaking, as a proponent, at a legalize drugs rally. You don't think he would be fired? Why? Conflict of interests.

    I applaud the school for having the bravery to let her go as far as she did. While gay people may be offended, the school is to be commended. I guarantee you, the school did not make the final decision. The church did.

    While I don't agree with the Catholic church, I understand why they let her go. Even though I am not gay, I would never place my child in a Catholic school, because I am exposing my child to the very beliefs I don't agree with. Unlike this woman, I have common sense.



  14. #29
    Elite Member Grimmlok's Avatar
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    No, you misunderstand. They can worship all they want, they can toss chicken bones and do raindances till the cows come home.

    It's when they use THEIR sky fairy crap to oppress others (slavery, gay rights) in the civil world that I have a problem with.

    If they kept their religiosity in the church instead of trying to spread it like a plague onto everyone else, there'd be no problem
    I am from the American CIA and I have a radio in my head. I am going to kill you.

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    Uh sorry, she came to them. They didn't come into her life, she came into theirs. And I agree also with Revellings point that I would never put a child of mine into one of these schools. They don't just discriminate against gay people. There's a lot of damage done by these beliefs and its hypocritical of her to use the school when she was able to slide by but then to call foul when they revealed their true colors. What about the people she helped oppress while she was on the good side of the school?

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