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Thread: Caroline Kennedy reportedly interested in taking over Hillary Clinton's Senate seat

  1. #31
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    What does being a lawyer have to do with being a Senator?

    And, yeah, Hillary was elected. But the point is, she served as First Lady for 8 years and then ran for the Senate five minutes after she moved to New York. And had it not been for her famous last name she wouldn't have been elected. So to say Caroline's being handed something because of her famous last name is moot considering that Hillary pretty much got in for the same reason.

    Now that's not to say that Caroline is the perfect choice, but considering that Hillary had never served a day in public office either when she became Senator it derails that argument against Caroline.
    Being a lawyer in regard to being a Senator is a qualification that the Kennedy team is offering as a reason why Caroline is qualified. If it qualifies Caroline then it qualified Clinton.

    And again, Clinton was elected, not appointed. Voters made the decision, it wasn't thrust upon them. That's quite a big difference.

    I'm sure there is great potential in Caroline as a politician. I don't dislike her at all. I just don't feel starting up this high is where her experience puts her.

    I oppose political nepotism where qualification is lacking in America in general - It goes against all Democratic principle and it's how we ended up with George W. Bush.
    Last edited by witchcurlgirl; December 16th, 2008 at 12:51 AM.
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  2. #32
    Elite Member sputnik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    I find it laughable that anyone could see it differently. She is as unqualified for the position of Senator as Palin was for the position of VP.

    What exactly qualifies Kennedy for the job? A law degree earned over 20 years ago that was never used? The co-authorship of two Civics books?
    how about speaking proper english? not going to 7 colleges in 5 years to earn a shitty journalism degree? not trying to get her sister's husband fired and then firing his boss when it didn't work? again, speaking proper english. not being a backwards hick? i mean, please. if the choice is between nepotism getting caroline kennedy in the senate, and people electing a retard like palin, well i hope nepotism stays alive and well. i find it laughable that someonw can even compare the two just for the sake of winning an argument.
    and since when is having worked as a lawyer the only job that qualifies a person for the senate? what's wrong with academics, businessmen/women, the dozens of other professions that are represented in the senate.
    and i agree, nepotism sucks when it leads to retards like bush becoming president but i guess maybe i'm not so rigid and black and white and so hung up on a principle that i'm willing to overlook someone's qualities just because i don't like the idea of political dynasties.
    like kingcap said, hilary only got elected because she was first lady for 8 yars. do i think that makes her any less qualified? no. do i think the fact that her stint as first lady and her political connections helped disqualify her or make her any less a worthy candidate? no.
    but again, it's about not being so absolute and looking at the individual person. if this was a ninny like laura bush or a psycho barbie like cindy mccain getting eased into a senate seat then yeah, i would expect outrage, and not because they're republicans.
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  3. #33
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    Being a lawyer in regard to being a Senator is a qualification that the Kennedy team is offering as a reason why Caroline is qualified. If it qualifies Caroline then it qualified Clinton.

    And again, Clinton was elected, not appointed. Voters made the decision, it wasn't thrust upon them. That's quite a big difference.

    I'm sure there is great potential in Caroline as a politician. I don't dislike her at all. I just don't feel starting up this high is where her experience puts her.

    I oppose political nepotism where qualification is lacking in America in general - It goes against all Democratic principle and it's how we ended up with George W. Bush.
    Well, what experience did Hillary have that justified her starting her political career so high up as a Senator? I mean, if you're going to make that point about Caroline then you have to ask it about Hillary. Because neither one of them ever held public office heading into the Senate, and the bulk of their political experience came from working on family members' campaigns.

    And when the voters elected Bill to be president they didn't expect Hillary to be working on healthcare as First Lady. But that decision was thrust upon the voters when Bill appointed Hillary to tackle that issue, despite the fact that she had never held political office and had no experience in healthcare reform.

    And, yeah, I despise nepotism, too. But as you pointed out about Hillary, Bush wasn't appointed he was elected.

  4. #34
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Sputnik:

    The people did not elect Palin to the VP slot. They were given a choice and a vote. She was unqualified and did not get in. Democracy at work. Here we aren't getting a choice, this is an appointment. It's a silly way to fill these positions.

    There is also nothing wrong with academics, businessmen/women, the dozens of other professions that are represented in the senate. But Kennedy does not have those qualifications either.

    And I'm not so 'rigid or hung up on a principle' that I oppose political dynasties. I said I oppose political nepotism where qualification is lacking. Bit of a difference.

    As to your last comment about not being so absolute and looking at the individual person, that is exactly what I am doing here. Looking at this particular individual and seeing that she is not ready. There are more qualified people here in New York politics for this position, and many better choices. This is my home state, where I am active in our political life, and there are politicians that actually have done things for our citizens.

    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    Well, what experience did Hillary have that justified her starting her political career so high up as a Senator? I mean, if you're going to make that point about Caroline then you have to ask it about Hillary. Because neither one of them ever held public office heading into the Senate, and the bulk of their political experience came from working on family members' campaigns.


    And, yeah, I despise nepotism, too. But as you pointed out about Hillary, Bush wasn't appointed he was elected.
    Bush was appointed by the Supreme Court darling.......I believe Gore was elected.

    And you're correct absolutely nothing qualified Clinton to start up that high if we discount her law experience, which is what her working experience was except the fact that she ran and was elected. The voters chose her as a representative. The voters aren't choosing here. If Caroline was elected by the people, it would be a different story.
    Last edited by Tati; December 17th, 2008 at 04:33 PM.
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  5. #35
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    Bush was appointed by the Supreme Court darling.......I believe Gore was elected.

    And you're correct absolutely nothing qualified Clinton to start up that high, except the fact that she ran and was elected.
    Bush's appointment by the Supreme Court came AFTER votes were cast in an election in 2000, and then he barely won in 2004. Big difference between the Bush and Caroline Kennedy situations.

    And how can you say that nothing qualified Hillary to start that high except that she ran and was elected, but then say that Caroline has no justification for starting so high as a Senator. That makes no sense.

    You can't criticize Caroline for being appointed Senator, without any previous qualifications, but then act as if Hillary's lack of previous qualifications is excused just because she got elected instead of appointed.

  6. #36
    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingcap72 View Post
    And how can you say that nothing qualified Hillary to start that high except that she ran and was elected, but then say that Caroline has no justification for starting so high as a Senator. That makes no sense.

    During the Presidential campaign this year, when Obama's lack of experience was brought up, the fact that he was running a great campaign and winning votes was offered up as proof of his abilities. It was thought to be a reflection of how well he could run an administration. Ergo, running for Senate and getting elected would fall under the same canopy. Those abilities that people felt qualified him would qualify anyone else that could do the same thing.

    We can disagree here on Kennedy. It wouldn't be the first time for us. I just feel my state would be better served by someone with a bit more fight in them, who has experience in working the system.

    But she'll get in and then we can see if it was a good move or not. Too bad my state has to be the guinea pig on this one. At least we have Schumer ( for now, but if the financial donations from Wall Street come back to bite him on the ass we may end up with another appointed Senator- I hear the Bush twins might be interested)

    ETA: Of course, we could always try it Illinois style and offer it up to the highest bidder.....what's the going rate for a senate seat?
    Last edited by witchcurlgirl; December 16th, 2008 at 01:48 AM.
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  7. #37
    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    During the Presidential campaign this year, when Obama's lack of experience was brought up, the fact that he was running a great campaign and winning votes was offered up as proof of his abilities. It was thought to be a reflection of how well he could run an administration. Ergo, running for Senate and getting elected would fall under the same canopy. Those abilities that people felt qualified him would qualify anyone else that could do the same thing.

    We can disagree here on Kennedy. It wouldn't be the first time for us.

    But she'll get in and then we can see if it was a good move or not. Too bad my state has to be the guinea pig on this one. At least we have Schumer ( for now, but if the financial donations from Wall Street come back to bite him on the ass we may end up with another appointed Senator- I hear the Bush twins might be interested)
    I was waiting for you to bring Obama up to try and make your case. But just like with your Bush example, Obama and Caroline Kennedy are two different situations. And as far as Obama goes it wasn't as if he was running for president without any political experience under his belt, he had seven years in the Illinois state legislature and over three years in the U.S. Senate. And nobody ever said that being an attorney, or the first black president, of the Harvard Law Review qualified him for the presidency, like you tried to do with Hillary as a Senator being the first female partner in her law firm.

    Now, like I said earlier, I'm not saying that Caroline is the perfect choice. But you can't dismiss her outright as a potential Senator by saying that she lacks the qualifications, or is getting by on her name, when those same two things applied to Hillary when she went into the Senate. And your state was already the guinea pig with a former First Lady being a Senator and that worked out okay, didn't it?

  8. #38
    Elite Member Fluffy's Avatar
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    The thing about Caroline is that for all her upbringing and education, she hasn't done a lot with it besides raise money for her causes. Even her bro worked as a DA. Hillary, even though she was elected on Bill's coattails, has a lot of experience working in the public eye and dealing with the media. Caroline has avoided the media far more than another Kennedy, such as Robert Jr. I mean, what do we really know about her positions and such? That's one thing NY voters knew about Hillary. They knew who she was and what they were getting when they voted her into office the first time around. Caroline? Well, she's for Obama, we know that much. But what else? I have no idea on what her take is on ANYTHING other than that she's a member of the Democratic Party. Are we to assume that because she's Ted's niece she'd vote with him on everything? I don't think that's fair to the people of NY. They should be able to know who their Senators are when they head into office.

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    Elite Member kingcap72's Avatar
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    ^^Hillary's worked in the public eye and dealt with the media. Caroline grew up in the public eye and has been dealing with the media her entire life. So, if that's going to be a criteria, then Caroline has as much experience as Hillary did when she got into the Senate.

    And just because people knew Hillary as First Lady didn't mean she would be a good Senator. The truth is you never really know what you're getting with somebody when they get into public office, whether it's Hillary, Obama, or Caroline. New York voters 'knew' about Elliot Spitzer as a crusader against corruption when he became Governor, and look at what happened there.

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    Elite Member cmmdee's Avatar
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    I have a suggestion... why don't they get Sarah Palin to do the job!?!

    HAHAHA

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    I quite like both Hillary and Caroline. Being a native New Yorker, I like the fact that Caroline (and a big chunk of her family) are all long time NYers. They've got skin in the game. Much as I like Hillary, she ran for the NY seat with a year still to go as 1st Lady. They didnt buy in Chappaqua until she was actively running for the seat, for which she was called a carpetbagger at the time, as I recall. Also, with Teddy winding down, she can be the new voice for the left (I hope). Interestingly, when HRC was talking about running the 1st time, I remarked to my husband the perfect shoo-in would be JFK, jr.....but fate intervened, alas.

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    Elite Member witchcurlgirl's Avatar
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    ^^ Yes JFK jr would have been a shoo-in.

    But as a not so bright guy who failed the NY state bar exam numerous times he probably wouldn't have been the best choice.

    Incidentally, RFK was called a carpetbagger when he moved to NY to run for Senator in his day, just like Hillary.
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    On the whole, the Kennedy women are bright, accomplished, and not whores/sluts like the men. Caroline is obviously an intelligent and accomplished woman, but that doesn't mean that she should be handed a senate seat.

    If she wants to go into politics, she should start at the bottom. She has kept a low profile, for which I'm more grateful than not, and people need to find out more about the woman behind the name--who she is and what she can do. If Caroline wants to enter politics, she'd best do it via an election.

    I'm not a lover of political dynasties, and many people had qualms about HRC in the primary because of concerns over having revolving Clinton-Bush-Clinton presidencies.

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    Quote Originally Posted by witchcurlgirl View Post
    Sputnik:

    The people did not elect Palin to the VP slot. They were given a choice and a vote. She was unqualified and did not get in. Democracy at work. Here we aren't getting a choice, this is an appointment. It's a silly way to fill these positions.
    yeah but she was elected governor.
    i'm just saying, sometimes an appointment will lead to a better person being put in place than if you let people choose. not that this would happen in new york but since you brought up sarah palin, i said i think it's better to have an appointed caroline kennedy as senator than an elected palin as governor.
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